11 Speed chain strength on mid drives?

B

bchampig

1 W
Joined
Nov 19, 2016
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Hello,

I am considering moving to an 11 speed setup on my LR single stage build from my existing 10 speed setup. I don't care about the extra speeds as I only use the larger cogs. I want to move from a 42T rear cog to a 48T or 50T for better hill climbing with the single stage and I see many more cog options and derailiuer options for 11 speed.

Since the single stage is pretty gentle on the chain I expect the 11 speed chain to be fine, but I wanted to see if anyone has had poor results with 11 speed chains on mid drive setups before I throw cash at a new cassette. chain , shifter, and derailiuer. I am currently using a KMC 10 speed with an XT cassette/Kore 42T extender cog. I reshuffle the cogs to move the large cog cluster towards the middle of the cassette. I don't use the two smallest cogs and set my Zee derailiuer limit screws to avoid them. I had to use a goat link for the derailiuer to clear the 42T extender cog. The setup works great but I would like a lower gear for the brutal climbs. 11 speed would give me more options going forward.

Thanks,
Brian
 
You might have to be the crash test dummy for the rest of us :wink:

I'd be interested in seeing how that works out as I'd like lower gearing as well. I'm running a 30t chain ring, but a smaller chain ring just puts more stress on the chain.
 
Been running an 11-speed chain on the Knolly + Tangent (20:1, 3kw) for a year now. So far so good...
 
m4k3r said:
Been running an 11-speed chain on the Knolly + Tangent (20:1, 3kw) for a year now. So far so good...
Click to expand...

That's good to know. What brand chain are you running?

THX,
Brian
 
Which part of the chain is narrower?

Is it the plates; are they thinner?

Is it the rollers; are they narrower?

If it's the former, then the chain may not be as strong.

If it's the latter, then the chain is just as strong as the same brand/manufacturing process would be in either chain.
 
11 speed chains are inherently weaker than wider chains by their design, but manufacturers attempt to make up the deficit by using stronger materials and heavier peening of the rivets. This is just as they've done with every added sprocket over 7.

Don't do it; you'll spend lots of money for no benefit. Just add the larger sprocket you want to the inside position of your existing cassette, and remove one of the others. It doesn't matter whether the sprocket came from a 9, 10, or 11 speed cassette. If the splines match, it will work.

Your derailleur will have to be able to reach down to the larger sprocket, or you'll need to use a drop hanger for it. For instance this one.
 
11 speed cassettes and chains are more expensive and I always stay clear.
$25-$30 for 11spd chain vs $12-$15 for 9 speed *all cdn prices*
$50 11spd cassette vs $20 9 spd cassette
 
I have a BBS02 on 52volts and do a lot of climbing, the setup is a 11-36 10 spd with Leccie 42T, I'm getting only about 150 miles out of chain before getting problems with over stretch and having to replace them. I've just bought a 11 -42 8spd cassette from Sunrace which is also steel and comparatively cheap. Plan is to fit the 10 spd spacings which then allows the larger cog to be more in line with less offset ( which is what I think is damaging the chains ) and with the 8spd chain being a bit more heavy duty, should have a more robust setup with the 11- 42 range.
 
bchampig said:
What brand chain are you running?
Click to expand...

I only use high end KMC chains.

Chalo said:
11 speed chains are inherently weaker than wider chains by their design
Click to expand...

I won't disagree with that, BUT i will say get whatever you're happy with. A chain is a chain and isn't designed to last forever anyway. I had more problems with my 8speed setup then i ever had with my 10sp and 11sp bikes. Most problems were due to lack of a clutch on the 8sp derailuers, constant chain drops and even broke the master link on the 8sp during one chain drop, that's when i called it quits (i ride techy/rough trails fwiw).

markz said:
Maybe go to 7 speed chain.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but IIRC 6/7/8 speed chains are identical.
 
markz said:
150 miles is premature, inspect everything like chain line and chain itself.
Maybe go to 7 speed chain.
Click to expand...
i agree. strong middrives put a lot of stress on the drivetrain, but a bbshd is not super strong. even with my 2.5kW middrive i can do at least 500km easily w/o any issues running 9-gear setups and kmc x9e (25€) chains. i will note exact runtimes the next time i change my drivetrain.
 
markz said:
150 miles is premature, inspect everything like chain line and chain itself.
Maybe go to 7 speed chain.
Click to expand...

Any BBS conversion is notoriously for a bad chain line, mines not to bad with the centre line about 4 gears in from the outside. The Lekkie ring really helps this a lot over the standard Bafung ring supplied. Maybe its just the chain I'm using but we do a lot of technical single track with climbs within that single track, its a lot of powering on and off which the Bafung will pull with ease, but it doesn't half stress up the drive line.
 
The narrower the roller the higher the wear rate on rollers and sprockets.

KMX makes pretty stout chain but even that with a BBS02 will wear quickly. Really beats up the smaller sprockets as they drop below 24 teeth.
 
Pro tip: keep the excess chain you trim off when sizing up your new chain. Throw that in your backpack/toolkit along with some master links. That way if you happen to snap the chain you'll be able to still make it home. Just take a couple links from the excess chain and link it up to your broken chain (sizing it accordingly but doesn't need to be perfect since you'll be replacing that chain). Nothing worse than pushing a heavy bike for miles. (this is assuming you have a chain breaker on your multi-tool or similar)
 
Good to know,

Now who makes a 38 , or 40 , or 42 , 48, 50 tooth , Single Chainrings with the standard Shimano/Sram cassette splines ? ( other than the $ 75 Wolf Tooth ones )

How much of a jump can you go up in teeth and still shift good ?

For instance I bought 9 speed Chain / 11-36 tooth cassette for my latest build knowing that I will be putting a mid drive onto it.

And would like to have two or more larger cogs . what combination could I use ?



Chalo said:
11 speed chains are inherently weaker than wider chains by their design, but manufacturers attempt to make up the deficit by using stronger materials and heavier peening of the rivets. This is just as they've done with every added sprocket over 7.

Don't do it; you'll spend lots of money for no benefit. Just add the larger sprocket you want to the inside position of your existing cassette, and remove one of the others. It doesn't matter whether the sprocket came from a 9, 10, or 11 speed cassette. If the splines match, it will work.

Your derailleur will have to be able to reach down to the larger sprocket, or you'll need to use a drop hanger for it. For instance this one.
Click to expand...
 
6/7/8/9 speeds are all interchangable
10 is not
11 is not

However derailleurs are fixed in their "Total Range" its only the shifters that move different rates on 10 and on 11. Also SRAM and Shimano have different ratio's too.

You are spending $10-$15 more for that 11 speed chain, then wider chains of lesser speeds. But if your shifters are already 11spd, then I understand where your at.
 
markz said:
6/7/8/9 speeds are all interchangable
Click to expand...


Just as a heads-up, 9-speed is a different width than 8.

Has anyone seen the wide-range, 8-speed cassette from SRAM? A mechanic at the shop has one, and I believe he said it may not have been released yet. It is intended for e-bikes, and I can't remember if it runs an 11 or 12-speed chain. I think it is an 11-50, so it's probably a 12. It allows for a big spacer behind the cassette so an e-bike can have the full gear range without a lot of chain angle/deflection.
 
ions82 said:
markz said:
6/7/8/9 speeds are all interchangable
Click to expand...


Just as a heads-up, 9-speed is a different width than 8.
Click to expand...

Different spacing, yes. Different total width, no. 8, 9, and 10 all fit on the same kind of freehub body. 11 is wider. 7 is narrower.
 
I was watching a Youtube video , by someone in the Bike Industry that tested two bikes with the same full suspension frame , but one was the usual non e-bike, and the other was the e-bike version of the same bike. ( mid - drive )

The e-bike version had the new 8 speed e-bike specific group set , ( note 8 speed rear cassette )
and
He found that he needed some of the gears that was missing, and also that the jump from one cog to another was too much of a jump/ did not get him in the right gear ratio for where he was riding .

Even though he liked the E-Bike version very much, he did, Not , like only 8 cogs on the back , and how they were spaced.



ions82 said:
Has anyone seen the wide-range, 8-speed cassette from SRAM? A mechanic at the shop has one, and I believe he said it may not have been released yet. It is intended for e-bikes, and I can't remember if it runs an 11 or 12-speed chain. I think it is an 11-50, so it's probably a 12. It allows for a big spacer behind the cassette so an e-bike can have the full gear range without a lot of chain angle/deflection.
Click to expand...
 
ScooterMan101 said:
Even though he liked the E-Bike version very much, he did, Not , like only 8 cogs on the back , and how they were spaced.
Click to expand...

He sounds like a real princess.

My first high quality bike that I bought brand new had a 5-speed freewheel. I generally prefer 7 over 8/9/10 because it allows less wheel dish and dirt cheap, durable replacement parts that require very minimal adjustment.
 
Chalo said:
ions82 said:
markz said:
6/7/8/9 speeds are all interchangable
Click to expand...


Just as a heads-up, 9-speed is a different width than 8.
Click to expand...

Different spacing, yes. Different total width, no. 8, 9, and 10 all fit on the same kind of freehub body. 11 is wider. 7 is narrower.
Click to expand...

Ah. I thought we were talking chain width (not cassette bodies.) It seems that the consensus is that chain strength is pretty even, but chainline is the more critical variable for durability. Is that accurate? Is a wide-ratio cassette better for mid-drives? Is there an ideal gear range and tooth jump for mid-drives?
 
I "edited" the 10sp cassette on my fat bike to get the lowest gear closer to the middle for a better chain line with my BBSHD. This has worked out very well and I haven't had any issues with shifting despite some pretty big jumps between gears.

I'm also no longer worried about the chain jumping off the low gear and getting tangled in the spokes.

Cassette Edited.jpg
 
I'm running a OneUp 50T in my Shimano M8000 XT setup (Cyclone 3000 and BBSHD). Works perfectly. Since it comes with a new cage, you won't have any shifting issues. I use a regular 11-speed KMC chain. I sometimes wonder if I should have saved my money and just tried the 11-46 instead, but then I'd always wonder about the 50.

bchampig said:
Hello,

I am considering moving to an 11 speed setup on my LR single stage build from my existing 10 speed setup. I don't care about the extra speeds as I only use the larger cogs. I want to move from a 42T rear cog to a 48T or 50T for better hill climbing with the single stage and I see many more cog options and derailiuer options for 11 speed.

Since the single stage is pretty gentle on the chain I expect the 11 speed chain to be fine, but I wanted to see if anyone has had poor results with 11 speed chains on mid drive setups before I throw cash at a new cassette. chain , shifter, and derailiuer. I am currently using a KMC 10 speed with an XT cassette/Kore 42T extender cog. I reshuffle the cogs to move the large cog cluster towards the middle of the cassette. I don't use the two smallest cogs and set my Zee derailiuer limit screws to avoid them. I had to use a goat link for the derailiuer to clear the 42T extender cog. The setup works great but I would like a lower gear for the brutal climbs. 11 speed would give me more options going forward.

Thanks,
Brian
Click to expand...
 
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