My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 639
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Nov 30, 2017 7:53 pm

It looks good to me. You'll be able to see my video soon =) Any specific areas you want to know details about?
oleaiz wrote:
Nov 30, 2017 7:49 pm
How about the quality of the bike?

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 639
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Nov 30, 2017 7:53 pm

Unboxing video is currently being uploaded =)
Attachments
DSC00344-r.jpg
DSC00344-r.jpg (156.55 KiB) Viewed 321 times

Animalector
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 791
Joined: Mar 17, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Mareeba - Queensland

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Animalector » Nov 30, 2017 7:57 pm

Looks the same as when it went in.. thats a good start..
Andy

oleaiz
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by oleaiz » Nov 30, 2017 8:33 pm

Waiting for video. All parts are real quality parts, Shimano etc...? Weight of bike without battery?

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 639
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Nov 30, 2017 10:55 pm

Haha, yes. Although, there is a scratch on the downtube, and now I see why. The hub of the front wheel was resting against it, and it appears a lot of pressure was placed on the box while it was on its side. The endcap of the front wheel axle is deformed. I'll have to take a picture of it. They should have put thicker foam wrap on the downtube.
Animalector wrote:
Nov 30, 2017 7:57 pm
Looks the same as when it went in.. thats a good start..
Andy

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 639
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Nov 30, 2017 10:58 pm

I'll take a closer look. I have 2 bikes with Shimano M8000 XT components, so I can compare. I did ask them about the authenticity of the fork, and they assured me it was genuine.

The bike weighs 57 lbs/26 kg without the battery.

17 minutes remaining on upload.
oleaiz wrote:
Nov 30, 2017 8:33 pm
Waiting for video. All parts are real quality parts, Shimano etc...? Weight of bike without battery?

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 639
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Dec 01, 2017 12:15 am

Ok, the video is up!

https://youtu.be/8AExCcTGF2w

User avatar
Matador
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 593
Joined: Jun 29, 2016 10:00 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Matador » Dec 01, 2017 12:53 am

Wow ! Sexyest thing ! Please PM the price you paid.
I love my bbshdm but this is seamless and torque sensing!

Subscribed !

oleaiz
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by oleaiz » Dec 01, 2017 12:55 am

Congratulations. Very, very nice made bike. Ride with pleasure.

Animalector
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 791
Joined: Mar 17, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Mareeba - Queensland

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Animalector » Dec 01, 2017 12:58 am

biggest issue for me is that you're paying around $3k USD (ish???) for a bike that doesn't have full bearings in the rear linkage... I mean why not use them? all this money and technology and save $3 in bearing parts?

Anyways I really hope you enjoy riding it, I'm sure it's going to be a blast. I have a Bafang Max 250W and it is an awesome ride compared to the BBS02.. if you're a MTB rider who likes to pedal the Torque sensing motor is amazing.. plus you've got the throttle for when you get lazy.

looking forward to the Ride videos.

Andy

oleaiz
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by oleaiz » Dec 01, 2017 3:02 am

Very nice video. Seems to me, mechanical parts of the bike are well made. That do you think about abscent of bearings on the upper part of back suspension? Do you think it is important? easy to modify?

Buk___
100 W
100 W
Posts: 211
Joined: Jul 28, 2017 5:59 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Buk___ » Dec 01, 2017 3:55 am

Animalector wrote:
Dec 01, 2017 12:58 am
biggest issue for me is that you're paying around $3k USD (ish???) for a bike that doesn't have full bearings in the rear linkage... I mean why not use them? all this money and technology and save $3 in bearing parts?
From a purely engineering standpoint, ball/roller bearings are great for thing that rotate, smoothly (especially when over a few 100rpm), but suspension parts don't rotate, they oscillate; and they don't move smoothly, but rather get banged back and forth violently.

For these type of oscillating motions with very high shock loads and bushes are (in other engineering fields) the goto solution. And modern engineered plastics -- eg. UHDPE and similar -- are the goto material for bushes that run in environments where hermetic sealing isn't possible.

Bearings create point stresses under shock loads, where bushes spread the loading over a much larger area. Self-lubricating, much lower area loading, low part-count and maintenance free operation. What's not to like.

Animalector
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 791
Joined: Mar 17, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Mareeba - Queensland

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Animalector » Dec 01, 2017 4:30 am

I've heard that argument before and I agree to a point... but often the Chinese manufacturers just use machined aluminium, possibly painted, poked through a hole in the frame that may or may not have been painted.

Not saying that's how these ones are, but on my bike that's what the bushing linkages are like.

I guess the proof that bearings work is that any name-brand bikes will use bearings throughout..

Anyway this is a bit off topic,

I would like to see these Frey linkages close up, possibly disassembled, so I can decide if I think they're going to last...

Andy

Buk___
100 W
100 W
Posts: 211
Joined: Jul 28, 2017 5:59 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Buk___ » Dec 01, 2017 5:10 am

Animalector wrote:
Dec 01, 2017 4:30 am
but often the Chinese manufacturers just use machined aluminium, possibly painted, poked through a hole in the frame that may or may not have been painted.
Funnily enough, if the aluminium has been accurately machined and if it was anodised, it can produced an excellent bush. Anodising produces a ceramic surface with a hardness equivalent to 60-65 Rockwell; and a softish aluminium substrate provides resilience.

But it all comes down to the accuracy of the machining.

oleaiz
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by oleaiz » Dec 01, 2017 5:54 am

I send the message to Ivy about the bearings in the upper part of suspension. She reply I would like to tell you that all are with bearings SKF brand. The back point bearing is inside with a cover outside. She send me the picture of inside suspension. The new frame is made with bearings at all points.
IMG_20171201_161631.jpg
IMG_20171201_161631.jpg (76.78 KiB) Viewed 266 times

Animalector
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 791
Joined: Mar 17, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Mareeba - Queensland

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Animalector » Dec 01, 2017 6:12 am

Thats awesome news... Winner

melodious
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1293
Joined: Aug 26, 2011 8:57 am
Location: East Coast, U.S.A.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by melodious » Dec 01, 2017 10:15 am

Looks from the video the gearing is a straight shot 30 mph. Increasing the front tooth count won't interfere with the frame either, but may touch the stock rear 2.8" tire. Looks compatible to midfat 3" tire category, but probably would find compatibility issues when going high tooth count & 3" wide moped tires.

Put a big toothed gear and see if she makes the 40 mph club? :twisted:

That's. A. Shit. Ton. Of. Hangers. You. Have. There. :lol:
Surly Ogre rigid 29er, rear 10T MAC @ 50V 25AH & 40A: 30mph road/gravel/hill machine
42" dual diagonal Eskateboard @6s & 90mm wheels
Next: eMTB @10-12s & 8"-12" pneumatic wheels; Got Strapped? d-(',')z

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 639
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Dec 01, 2017 2:07 pm

Thank you for that. That's awesome. Later on I thought a bearing might have been hiding behind the cover in the middle. I'll remove the bolts to check it out.
oleaiz wrote:
Dec 01, 2017 5:54 am
I send the message to Ivy about the bearings in the upper part of suspension. She reply I would like to tell you that all are with bearings SKF brand. The back point bearing is inside with a cover outside. She send me the picture of inside suspension. The new frame is made with bearings at all points.IMG_20171201_161631.jpg

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 639
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Dec 01, 2017 2:25 pm

If it's anything like the BBSHD, I don't think this specific setup will be gear limited. A 30T chainring on a BBSHD going to an 11T cassette cog is gear limited at around 30 mph on a 29er (which has a similar outside tire diameter vs a 27.5+ tire). However, that was with 52V. I'll count the teeth, but it looks like it has around a 42T chainring. My BBSHD mtb topped out at around 35 mph on 52V. I'm going to guess that this bike will have a slightly lower top speed due to the lower voltage and slightly wider tires. Also, this is a completely different motor, so this is just speculation. I will try to test it out today.

Increasing the tooth count too much would cause the chainring to make contact with the chainstay. I will check to see if a larger chainring might fit.

I got a lot of hangers because I bent 4 on one of my other bikes in the last 2 years, so I wanted to make sure I have spares for a while. I wonder if they used a hanger design that's available from Wheels Manufacturing. I'll have to contact them to see
melodious wrote:
Dec 01, 2017 10:15 am
Looks from the video the gearing is a straight shot 30 mph. Increasing the front tooth count won't interfere with the frame either, but may touch the stock rear 2.8" tire. Looks compatible to midfat 3" tire category, but probably would find compatibility issues when going high tooth count & 3" wide moped tires.

Put a big toothed gear and see if she makes the 40 mph club? :twisted:

That's. A. Shit. Ton. Of. Hangers. You. Have. There. :lol:

oleaiz
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by oleaiz » Dec 01, 2017 3:03 pm

Hello everybody. It is so interesting to follow yours discussions. All of you have much of knowledge. I am learning myself by reading the forums.
As far as I understand you have got the battery and going out for the ride. Waiting impatiently your opinion about driving properties of your bike. Drive it hard and safe.

Justin_Credible
1 µW
1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Dec 01, 2017 3:33 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Justin_Credible » Dec 01, 2017 4:48 pm

Not sure if this info has been posted to this thread yet but it looks like the Ultra Max uses upgraded Bafang programming software that includes a page for torque sensor settings. I've been looking for a copy of this, so far with no luck. If anyone has a copy or knows where it can be gotten I'd be interested.

Robleman
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 21
Joined: Jan 18, 2017 2:40 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Robleman » Dec 02, 2017 5:58 am

Thanks all the pioneers of this product for such a good and complete information.
At the momment my open issues are:
- a bit too heavy to be an aluminum frame but it looks rock solid in the other hand. Waiting for the weight including battery. I think the excess probably has to do with the difference in motor weight compare with a BBSHD
- components and finish look awesome for me
- transport damages does not seem to be important
- important pending issue is the capability to reprogram the controler and where is the appropiate sw. Looks like no comfirmation of this so far.
- anxious for a test ride review!

I'll appreciate so much if you can PM the final price of bike and transport.

Thanks a lot

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 639
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Dec 02, 2017 1:34 pm

Yes, the frame is a bit on the heavy side. I think it has to do with their use of many solid aluminum parts. For example, the suspension rocker is not hollowed out. I wonder if the front brace of the rear triangle is hollow.

The battery is 10.4 lbs/4.7 kg. That makes the total weight of the bike 67.4 lbs/30.6 kg.

If you think about it, let's say a typical MTB weighs 30 lbs. The Ultra is 11.7 lbs according to Karl.

https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/03/1 ... mid-drive/

Let's allow a couple lbs for the wiring and display.

30+11.7+10.4+2=54.1

67.4-54.1=13.3

So the bike weighs about 13 lbs more than a typical eMTB. I hope this contributes to increased durability =)
Robleman wrote:
Dec 02, 2017 5:58 am
Thanks all the pioneers of this product for such a good and complete information.
At the momment my open issues are:
- a bit too heavy to be an aluminum frame but it looks rock solid in the other hand. Waiting for the weight including battery. I think the excess probably has to do with the difference in motor weight compare with a BBSHD
- components and finish look awesome for me
- transport damages does not seem to be important
- important pending issue is the capability to reprogram the controler and where is the appropiate sw. Looks like no comfirmation of this so far.
- anxious for a test ride review!

I'll appreciate so much if you can PM the final price of bike and transport.

Thanks a lot

oleaiz
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by oleaiz » Dec 02, 2017 1:40 pm

Have you been out for the ride? How is it? If it rides fine with good acceleration, top speed and smooth on pedalling, the weight is not important for me.

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 639
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Dec 02, 2017 1:59 pm

Honestly, I need more time on the bike to make useful comments. I've only ridden it about 1.6 miles. I need to find a long stretch of flat land. Near my house, there is a flat road that ends with a slight hill. On that stretch of land I was able to reach 30.6 mph according to Strava.

I feel like there's some sort of current limit set a little low. If you look at the screenshot Frey provided of their programming software, it shows a current limit of 18A. If it is indeed limited to 18A, that would explain it. Frey says they're testing the software, so they should have it available soon.

Having said that, it feels like it has plenty of power for trail use. Once I go on an actual trail, I'll have a better impression.

I agree about the weight. Unless you're planning to jump the bike or race it, the extra weight really shouldn't have much of an impact on your riding. Its weight is comparable to a downhill ebike.

Image
oleaiz wrote:
Dec 02, 2017 1:40 pm
Have you been out for the ride? How is it? If it rides fine with good acceleration, top speed and smooth on pedalling, the weight is not important for me.

Post Reply