I think anyone in the market for something like a Specialized or Giant ebike should and would consider the X-1 (and a Frey). I know I'd probably own a Levo if I didn't buy the X-1. In fact, just a week before I bought it, I was trying to buy a Levo. The intended purpose and audience of the bikes are the same.
True, Luna probably doesn't have the R&D that the larger companies have, however, the frames that they're using are likely based on successful designs by these large companies (the frame is a Dengfu M09 just fyi). For example, they use the FSR rear suspension design, and now that Specialized's patent is expired, anyone can use it.
The suspension is also heavily influenced by the fork and rear shock, both of which are made by Rockshox. The motor unit is also made by a relatively well-known company, Bafang. The drivetrain is made by Sram.
It's not like someone just whipped together custom-made parts in their basement and started producing their own designs. They are leaning on a great deal of past R&D by well-known companies, and it shows in actual performance.
You can think of it as charging for a warranty. I see it as a way of saving money. Luna caters to the DIY crowd. They assume we know what we're doing. It's those with less technical knowledge and those that expect an Amazon-type experience that give these companies a bad name. They destroy something and expect free shipping both ways and a full refund. Also, even if something doesn't officially come with a warranty, they will do everything within reason to help you out.
Luna Cycle is like a mom & pop store. They can help you in ways a large company never would. I've seen them send a new frame to someone that was involved in a wreck. Good luck even getting a hold of someone at a large company. I had a simple question about a Giant bike, and there was literally no way to contact them. Their webform just bounces back undeliverable.
But the X-1 comes with a warranty.
I don't think the flashlight analogy works in this scenario because the core components of the X-1 are the same as those used by the name brands. If they fail, it's not really Luna's fault. If the fork fails, it's Sram's fault. If the motor fails, it's Bafang's fault. If the tires fail, it's Maxxis' fault and etc. But Luna will still cover you.
I don't know when you discovered Luna Cycle but I came across them back in 2015 when I was looking for a way to motorize my bike. They used to just sell batteries and mid drives. Then they started making their own battery packs and selling bikes preinstalled with mid drives. Those were the ones that had optional warranties. And here they are today gaining ground. It will be interesting to see where they're headed next.
What bike models from your comparable brand list do you have in mind for those looking at the X-1?
Luna also offers 2 significant advantages over the big brands, a throttle and 2000W with a 56mph speed limit. The only possible advantage I can think of that the Levo might have is in the programming of the torque sensor. I have not tried a Levo, so I can't compare them, but I have tried a Giant Full E, and what I do know is I love the way the torque sensor feels on the X-1. I almost used it during my entire ride last time. I've never done that before. I'm going to have to get that Eggrider so that I can tweak my Ultra on-the-fly.
formula101 wrote: ↑
Oct 29 2019 10:16pm
Thanks, it'll be a good idea to get some idea of fit: I wish luna included this data. There is standard measure for standover, but a simple diagram would do.
I don't know if the comparison spec to spec with specialized is fair. Specialized supports a much larger number of employees, ongoing R&D across a comprehensive line of bicycles, as well as an international network of brick and mortar dealers to handle customer service.
This is not to mention that their warranties are far superior to Luna's warranties: lifetime on the frame, 2 years on their batteries. Luna actually charges you extra for it's warranties, which is pretty laughable to me.
There's no telling where Luna is sourcing it's frames from, and there is no way luna can match Specialized's decades of full suspension frame design in both aluminum and carbon. Luna designs are brand new, with no track record of reliability.
Am I endorsing Specialized? Absolutely not. Am I in the market for a $7K+ emtb? Absolutely not. I'm simply saying that the upfront cost from an internet dealer with zero brick and mortar retail presence, markedly inferior warranty (if even offered), no track record of reliability, and no rationale for it's frame or overall design are factors that should be acknowledged when assessing a product's "value."
As an example of products which look like quality products but are not: I bought some cree magic shine knockoffs on eBay for under $10 each (light + battery pack). They made some ridiculous lumen claim and they certainly LOOKED like magic shines. 3 years later, not a single battery pack of the 5 I purchased is still functional. Two of them failed within the first year. The third broke the second year with very light handling. The last two which were hardly ever used, both failed this year. At most I got a few months of use out of each, and even then they produced closer to 200 to 300 lumens, the equivalent of the "low" setting on most quality headlights rather than their claimed thousands of lumens.
So now I have exactly zero out of five functional headlights, because every single battery pack has failed. It's true I only spent $50 but every last one failed with light use within a relatively short period of time.
To put it simply, Luna is not competing with Specialized. Comparable brands include Juiced, Biktrix, FLX and the like. Newish, internet-based companies which source generic frames exclusively from China, competing primarily on the basis of "value" rather than building upon a legacy of decades of R&D.