Single speed ebike project

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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vagosofron
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Single speed ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Dec 17, 2017 5:04 am

Hello everyone, i'm Vaggelis from Greece and i'm planning on byilding an ebike out of my road bike.
The problem is, that i don't know anything about motors, batteries (a friend is an electrical engineer, so he can help on that part) and basically everything besides the bike part! I've been reading a lot latelly though, but i'm still comfused.
My story really quick, i am 35 yrs and i used to live in a city totally flat, where i used my bike for everything.
For the last 3 years though, i moved to a city (damn wife!), where the road is fairly uphill towards the center of the city ( i live 3 miles outside). My house is 20 meters above sea level and the city center is 80 meters, so you can understand how steep the road is. I can ride there easilly, but on the hot/sunny months i get really sweaty. So i need something to get me there without or light pedalling, but on the way back i don't have to use the motor at all.
My bike is a Bottecchia duello and weights about 20-22 lbs. I weigh 187 lbs and i'm not planning on currying any weight on me when i use the bike. I saw a lot of project ebikes and i'm leaning towards a friction drive type, because it\s simple and i can take it off easilly. I want it to be smooth and clean, so i would like to use an outrunner brushless motor and place it on the bikes back triangle.
The motor. What motor do you suggest? Not something extremely expensive though. I've seen a couple of turnigys, but i don't know which one is wright for me. Can i go with one from the 50 range, or do i have to go bigger?
Controller. I guess it depends on the motor, correct?
Batteries. For starters, i would like to use the cheapest option ( if it is possible), just to see how everything works.
Throttle. That is pretty simple...isn't it?
Thank you all in advance and i'm really sorry for the huge topic and for my gramar mistakes.
Last edited by vagosofron on Mar 15, 2018 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Triketech
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by Triketech » Dec 17, 2017 1:43 pm

So many options but with the power limits in Europe....

Mid-drives are often favorable but you'll loose multiple front sprockets.

Hills tend to favor geared hubmotors. One nice feature with geared hubmotors is no motor drag when pedaling with the motor off. You lose the regeneration feature but the higher efficiency of a geared motor allows you to travel further on a charge. Moreover with a geared hubmotor you'll only need a throttle and maybe a cruise control feature for the boost up a hill.

Your bike would favor a Rear wheel system due to front fork structure not being stout enough for a motor.

This system would work well, although you'll need to add a Freewheel to replace the cassette, and its likely to be something like a 36-11 gearing. That would probably be a better set of ratios considering your climb as well. 36V option, and 8-10 Amp-Hour battery should do - that should provide enough power to push you up over 300 meters of elevation so long as the speed remains above about 10kph.

Image

http://www.goldenmotor.bike/700c-36v-re ... ion-kit-2/

A battery similar to this may be all you need.
Image

https://www.bixpower.com/BAT-BX3632-p/bat-bx3632h.htm

vagosofron
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Dec 17, 2017 5:38 pm

Thank you for the response, i've seen those setups, but here in Greece they sell them really expensive and I can't order outside Europe, because we are having problems with the customs and their ridiculously high taxe fees.
I don't care about the limits, here in Greece ebikes aren't that common.
I found this motor in an auction on ebay.uk
"Turnigy HeliDrive SK3 Competition Brushless Motor 4956-1350KV (T600)"
Do you think it is suitable for my project?

Triketech
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by Triketech » Dec 17, 2017 11:03 pm

Not sure how its any different importing from the UK.
Basically anything manufacture except clothing is under 1000 Euros its a 4.2% tax.
You will need to have a common law declaration (SAD, single administrative document), as well as the accompanying documents to allow their clearance. The SAD form can be obtained from Chambers of Commerce or an approved printer. You may need to send this to the vendor (in Canada for the link I sent) in advance.

You can also find dealers in Europe here:
https://www.goldenmotor.com/contact/dealer.html

As far as the Turnigy motor, after you add a 20:1 gearbox, a mounting bracket, a drive system, a BLDC controller, and a throttle you'll have spent a whole lot more. Not to mention the time and controller programming.

vagosofron
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Dec 18, 2017 2:10 am

I didn't see that it was a UK dealer, my bad. Even so, that will cost me way more than I want to spend.
What is a 20:1 gearbox? I haven't seen anything like that on other peoples projects. Also, I didn't know that the controller needed programming, I thought it was plug and play situation. I will build the mounting bracket. So you think that the specific motor is not for a project like this? Sorry for all the questions, but as I mentioned, i'm a noob.

ScooterMan101
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by ScooterMan101 » Dec 18, 2017 4:05 pm

First of all since you say you are a noob, you are better off getting a complete kit, that is what we call " Plug and Play " .
That means get the Motor/Controller/Display/Throttle/PAS if wanting one/ etc from the same seller/vendor , and that all the above items plug into each other with the right plugs/connectors.

You were writing about you would like a friction drive for simplicity , however all the friction drives with the exception of one that is sold in Germany have many parts you have to put together from different sources.
The one from Germany is expensive , around $ 1,000 US or near that, don't know what that is in Euro's , but I do know you can achieve your goals for half that price.

For inexpensive plug and play systems that would work for you look into ...

1) the newest ( 48v/52v )(18 amp controller ) version of the TSDZ 02 the newest , and higher voltage versions are sold by recycles, if you look into the TSDZ thread you can find his information and allot of information on it. ( 48 volt pack is 13s , and 52 volt pack is 14s )
You can find allot of information on here , only need to read about the last 10 pages or so since there has been allot of versions, and improvements on the TSDZ 2

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... start=1300
or
2) a Q128 complete system ( 201 rpm version motor) sold by BMS Battery.com

There are plenty of other options for hub motors , and even the Befang BBS02,
so you could look into those if you want.

That Turnigy SK3 motor is too fast , the KV is way too high for a easy project .
Best to just forget about that.
If you do want to still have a friction drive, Kepler is the person who has the most experience and does the best friction drive available at this time. Read his complete threads on his friction drives , especially his latest friction drive.
Kepler has said he will be back after the new year .


vagosofron wrote:
Dec 17, 2017 5:38 pm

I found this motor in an auction on ebay.uk
"Turnigy HeliDrive SK3 Competition Brushless Motor 4956-1350KV (T600)"
Do you think it is suitable for my project?
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

Oh how I wish today for no more rain
Oh how I wish to ride again
Once and for all
And all for once
Cyclist my name forevermore

vagosofron
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Dec 18, 2017 4:49 pm

Thank you, you are correct! After a lot of reading, i saw that the motor i found, was wrong. You maybe wright about everything you wrote, but i still want a friction drive system. I will follow your advice and try to find everything from the same seller/store, but i don't know even then if everything "connects". There are so many motors and so many controllers! How do i know if they are compatible? What do i look? I will try to buy the same brand f.e. Turnigy, but what else? Do i have to check for the same amps/cell count?

ScooterMan101
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by ScooterMan101 » Dec 18, 2017 5:45 pm

If you want a Friction Drive then Kepler is the person to contact, read everything on his thread, I think there is also a thread on his Friction Drive on the For Sale New section.
From a post a month or so ago, he said he will be back after the first of the year so you have time to do plenty of research. ( he does not , do this as a business only as a hobby so has to tend to his job that pays the bills , and perhaps is off on another business trip right now ? )

Kepler has done more research and experimentation with friction drives than any other person .

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=84905

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=86961
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

Oh how I wish today for no more rain
Oh how I wish to ride again
Once and for all
And all for once
Cyclist my name forevermore

vagosofron
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Dec 19, 2017 12:21 pm

Thank you, yes i saw Keplers work and i like it. Maybe i will contact him.

vagosofron
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Dec 26, 2017 9:32 am

Can someone explain the basics on ESCs /motors/ batteries compatibilities? For example, if you have a brushless motor, what do you have to check in order to find the proper esc? The volts? The amps? The batteries? If the motor says 80amps, do you have to find an esc 80a, or a bigger/ smaller one can do the job? Can find those type of information in this forum?

vagosofron
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Dec 31, 2017 9:43 am

Ok, i ordered this motor from hobbyking
KEDA 63-64 190KV Brushless Outrunner 10S 2000W
Can someone suggest a compatible ESC? Since this motor supports up to 10s batteries, can i get a 36v speed controller like this one?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-sh ... eLevelAB=5
Please?

vagosofron
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Jan 13, 2018 3:53 pm

Update, I will build a Tom Stanton ebike and i'm looking for an esc. Has anyone ever tried enerton focbox?
Edit. I finally bought a dlux esc from hobbyking.
Question about gear ratio, how do i determine what gear ratio i need? I want to ride a 4klm distance with 1.5% elevation grade.

vagosofron
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Mar 10, 2018 10:07 am

I just burned the esc. I connected it to a 24v battery charger, just to see if the esc/motor works, but I got smoke from the esc. I'm now trying to save for a hub conversion kit and be done with it...

vagosofron
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Mar 12, 2018 2:48 pm

Ok, so i found a company in Greece that sell hub motor kits, in a reasonable price.
It is a 36v 500w hub motor ( front wheel) with all the components.
They suggest though not to use their lithium battery pack (36V/10.4AH), but their 36V 12ΑΗ GEL/AGM (WESTECH ULTRACELL) which consists of 3 12V batteries in series. They say that it will last longer on my rides, but that doesn't sound right because those batteries are super heavy. What kind of battery can i choose? I want to go with lithium pack. Any help?

vagosofron
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Mar 15, 2018 10:41 am

Can anyone see from the picture, if this motor is geared or gearless please?
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ScooterMan101
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Re: Road ebike project

Post by ScooterMan101 » Mar 15, 2018 10:55 am

Can not tell by the picture if it is a DD or a Geared Hub .

You do not want that heavy motor on a front fork anyway.

Only a heavy motor like that on the rear .

Since you have a Road bike with a thin front fork a small geared hub motor would be best.

With only 60 meters to climb up , you can do that with a 250-350 watt hub motor that you put 500-600 watts through it.

I go up hills like that with a small Q100c rear hub motor that I run on 12s battery pack . ( lipo's 2 x 6s packs together to make a 12s pack )

You want lithium batteries, either 18650's or hobby lipo's , Not SLA .
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

Oh how I wish today for no more rain
Oh how I wish to ride again
Once and for all
And all for once
Cyclist my name forevermore

vagosofron
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Joined: Dec 16, 2017 3:52 pm

Re: Road ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Mar 15, 2018 3:44 pm

Thanks for that. I should mention that i sold my road bike and got a steel single speed for the conversion. Having said that, i have to change the topic title :oops:

ScooterMan101
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Re: Single speed ebike project

Post by ScooterMan101 » Mar 16, 2018 8:00 pm

Now that you have a steel frame single bike frame,

You can now choose from a large number of ... Rear , hub motors.

from your description of where you live you do not need a heavy DD hub motor
a lighter weight geared hub motor would work, just get a slower speed one also known as a higher torque motor. With a torque arm or two.

It looks like the only challenge it looks like you will have is to get a kit with low shipping or is it low import tax rates ?
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

Oh how I wish today for no more rain
Oh how I wish to ride again
Once and for all
And all for once
Cyclist my name forevermore

vagosofron
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Joined: Dec 16, 2017 3:52 pm

Re: Single speed ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Mar 17, 2018 3:02 am

It doesn't matter even if I find a kit with free shipping. The import taxes are crazy high here. I will look further to what you said about rear motor.

vagosofron
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Re: Single speed ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Apr 19, 2018 6:41 am

Ok, i found a slightly used hub motor kit at 180€.
http://www.goldenmotor.bike/700c-or-29e ... rsion-kit/

It is a 48v 1000w motor. The person that is selling, told me that the controller is programmable and i can set it for 36v 500w through a usb cable.
Anyone has that kit? If it is in a good condition, do you think that i should go for it? I want a 36v 500w kit, because i will build a battery and a 48v li-ion battery will cost to much. Also, i don't need a 1000w motor. The seller lives 3 hours away and i'm thinking on checking it.

vagosofron
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Re: Single speed ebike project

Post by vagosofron » Apr 19, 2018 3:22 pm

This is the kit, can you recognise what version it is and if it is programable, so i can run it at 36v?
In other words, is it worth it?
https://ibb.co/i7y4Gn
https://ibb.co/jrBKhS

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