What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

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Stefunlekite
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What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Stefunlekite » Jan 02, 2018 10:24 am

Hi,

Because of work and getting older, it s harder for me to mtb in those hills and trails...so after finding a lot of inspiration here, I want to build my own! So I hope some of you will be kind enough to help out a newbie! :D
I have read quite a few example but a lot of people have different opinions on the subject.
My requirements are:
1. Mid drive motor (centralised weight) which can:
- carry my weight (89kg) but I'm ok to pedal don't need thumb drive.
- gear and pedalling power sensor would be nice to manage technical climbs but i guess I could learn to ride differently. I have a background in enduro dirt bikes. I'm not in search of huge acceleration just getting me up there.
- Can be fitted without too much work. I'm no mechanic only have basic bike kits etc...
- doesn't cost an arm as I will be spending quite a bit on a nice bike. I will either buy a downhill bike or an enduro one. Those bikes usually have bottom brakets which are 73+ mm (most dwh are 83)
For example those are the bike I have my eyes on:
https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/archive/2013/alpine-160/
Here is their e version of the same bike (what I aiming for: https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/alpine-6-e-le/2018)
http://www.thebikelist.co.uk/giant/glory-dh-2009
Used bike like this are often 26'' wheels, whereas 27.5 are recommended to achieve better grip. MY plan is to use wider tires to make up the difference.
QUESTION 1: How much power do I need? If you look at industrial production: bosch / yamaha / shimano motors they are 350w max and use 36v battery so it s not that much...

Reading here and elsewhere this is what I'm leaning towards
A. Bafang (500-1000w): seems that it s the best value, reliable easy to install etc...
B. GNG 1000w: seems to be better with climbs that bafang. Worried about the size of the bottom braket as it mentions 68 only? How hard is it to install this one (controller not integrated)
C. Cyclone: One of the most powerfull one but reliability issues? Hard to install (controller not integrated)?
D. Tongsheng TSDZ2: bafang with a pedaling power sensor? reliability issues?
QUESTION 2: feedback on motor for my needs?

2. Battery:
- I m ok with backpack or frame attached. However those bikes usually have small space within the bike triangle so it will have to be attached to the bottom bar hanging style or custom build (an easy of the shelf solution?)
- Capacity: I m thinking several hours outings so doesn't need something crazy but hill climbing usually needs capacity.
QUESTION 3: feedback on battery for my needs? Would 36v be ok to keep the cost down? I see good kits for £200.

QUESTION 4: What is your advice to source all this? China or local uk?

Any feedback for this project is well appreciated! :)

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by pexio » Jan 03, 2018 9:54 am

Hi and welcome,
Clearly you've put some research and thought into your questions so thanks for that. With regard to the systems you mention, I have experience with both the Bafang BBS and the Tongsheng TSDZ2 systems - none with the Cyclone or GNG. As a practical matter, if you want to build an ebike as quickly and easily as possible, I would recommend the Bafang or Tongsheng systems as they are the most "plug-and-play" of those on your list, IMHO. Others may chime in on the Cyclone and GNG.

If you want an e-mountain bike NOT an electric dirt bike, that is, you aim to pedal and simply want some assistance, then you don't need much power. There's a reason that the factory e-mtb's use Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha, etc. motors with 350 or less watts. That's all you need. My Cove Hustler (a 150mm travel trail bike pictured below) has a 750w Bafang BBS02 and I rarely use more than 180w. I use PAS exclusively - the bike does not have a throttle.

I originally intended to install a Tongsheng TSDZ2 on the Cove but was not happy with how far the motor hung down below the bottom bracket (see second picture). Where I ride, there are lots of fallen trees and rocks that the bike must be lifted over and the Bafang sits up higher and out of the way better. I installed the TSDZ2 on my GF's cruiser bike and, yes, the torque sensing is interesting, but I believe that for an EMTB, consistent power is more important than proportional power. The BBS can be easily reprogrammed to fit your riding style - I personally subscribe to the "Kepler" school of Bafang configuration. I don't believe that the TSDZ2 can be user-programmed (yet). Also, the Bafang is quieter and more well-known and supported in the ebike community. It's also very reliable. The BBS02 on my Cove has been in constant operation on one bike or another since June of 2014.

As far as the battery, all of the systems I've used have been 48v or 52v although there's no reason to expect that a 36v system wouldn't be completely satisfactory. I think that most of the factory systems are 36v. You don't need much battery power if you're doing a lot of the work pedaling and only going out for a few hours. I've yet to come close to exhausting the 14s4p pack on my Cove even after a really big day out.

For a bike to convert, one with a 68-73mm bottom bracket is the best choice - also one that has a straight downtube (like the Orange you linked to) so that the motor can be positioned up and out of the way (if that's important where you ride). Good luck on your project!
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Waynemarlow
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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Waynemarlow » Jan 03, 2018 2:14 pm

I'm going to really confuse you here. UK conditions off road are very different than American or for that matter most places elsewhere in the world. We have a huge number of off road paths that are just that, paths, mainly single track and very few open wider tracks where you need lots of power. 350W 36volts will get you anywhere in the UK pretty well as long as you are prepared to put a bit of effort in. 500W 48 volt is a nicety, 750W 52 volt is a waste of time.

As to torque sensitive or simple power assisted as per the Bafung, they are really different in feel and really in the horses for courses bracket. If you have any sort of impediment such as a damaged knee or leg then the Bafung is the way to go as it only relies on the pedals turning. If you like riding a bike and like the feel of you putting power into the system then the TDSZ2 is a no brainer.

As to ease of build, both the Bafung and the tDSZ2 are relatively easy but the Bafung needs a lot of initial TLC to set it up for your conditions and riding style, from the factory the programming is terrible for mtbs. The TDSZ2 is so much simpler to fit and set up, right from the box its torque sensing capability just takes all the initial set up out of the equation and unlike the Bafung does not need a throttle and brake sensors.

In the practical way of things, if set below the crank the TDSZ2 doesn't seem to have a problem, you hit the crank arms and pedals or the front ring long before the motor. I was skeptical to say the least when fitting my unit but in practice its been fine. I think the Bafung unit which I also have in some ways is more prone to damage as it sits right in the line of fire from stones off the front wheel. We've done about 500 miles off road now without any reliability problems on the TDSZ2.

We now have a couple of each of the Bafung and the TDSZ2 engines in our group and 6.0 amp battery packs built as a slab and put into a tool bag hung from the seat, seems the best and easiest battery pack. We tend to carry a spare battery between us as we find 6.0 amps is more than enough for a couple of hours of riding, as a spare only if someone has forgotten to fully charge a unit. The only downside is that in both the 48v and 36v batteries with just 2P setups you can get poor performance from around 1/2 discharge where as the 52v setup seems to really work well until the battery is almost fully exhausted.

Find a 27.5 frame, you will enjoy the benefits over a 26 er as in truth most 26er frames will not take a very wide wheel. If you can find a 29er thats going cheap, you can fit 27.5 + tyres and have all the benefits of all the latest developments. Beware of carbon frames as most have a very fat area around the crank which will not allow the conversions easily.

Enjoy, Ebiking is fun and I'm really enjoying a new style of riding coming from a similar Enduro style riding that you are used to.

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Stefunlekite » Jan 04, 2018 6:09 am

Thank you both for those great replies! They are quite complementary.

1) need: Easy set up is important but key for me is ride feel. I don’t want an e dirt bike. First reason is I want to be maintain lightness and fitness that you get with mtb. If I was going for edirt bike, I would get on a full on downhill bike with reinforced everything, put a cyclone 3000w on it. So no, I’m more thinking something like your build which is very nice by the way. Enduro bike with 160mm of travel and reinforced frame. A light bit can be flickered around and jump with lower speed than a heavy edirt bike. But at higher speed it will be less stable

2) motor: funny that you say that, because reading online it seems both motors has a reputation for unreliability:

BBS02: was it earlier generation? The BBSHD has a reputation for being way more reliable doesn’t it:
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/02/0 ... -more/amp/
Also, it seems there is a new version of the bbs02 where it s harder to use a kepler program?

TSDZ2: blue drive gear and too much stress in high gear? I read reports about dealers stopping to sell them due to reliability issues. Also there is less history on that motor although we’re getting there

Power: you both agree 500w is plenty. I agree with this, I’m not trying to achieve high top speed, more increase torque to climb hills. Also yes pedaling power to keep fitness is important.

3) bike choice: My problem is that for a lower budget (£400-600), I can only get either:

- Solution 1: Used older enduro bike but with modern geometry (orange alpine) : all have 26 inch wheels (too costly to convert),can fit 2.5 wide tires but no more usually. They have great suspensions and can take a lot of abuse (here fox float). Also having a cool machine is pretty great J

- Solution 2: Recent entry level trail bike (130-140mm not so much enduro 160mm) with 27.5 wheels but cheap components including suspensions. I m afraid that with the heavier weight and the higher speed reach with the added motor they will not hold as well (especially the suspensions). Here are some example of the best one: http://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/full-suspe ... 015-review
http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/categ ... nzo-50184/

I have learned that what really makes a difference in a good bike is 1) frame / geometry 2) suspension quality 3) wheels (weight and construction and size) 4) components and the rest

So you see it s a dilemma. I still ask myself how is it possible that we’ve been riding 26 inch wheels for years (even still now in downhill) and now they are bad…Is 2.5 width enough to compensate for 26 vs 27.5? One the reason normal mtb switch to 27.5 and 29 is for better pedaling power but that s not an issue with the motor. But they do add grip and a better angle for climbing stuff. At the same time I’m 6’2 and 89 kg so I would think to bigger wheels would be a good idea.



GEAR SENSOR: what is your take on it for what I want to do? Does the TSDZ2 have one?

Thanks again for your help. If anybody wants to give other opinion I ll be very happy to hear!

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Waynemarlow » Jan 04, 2018 12:05 pm

There's a fair bit of urban myth associated with the reliability of both motors, the BBS02 had some issues with early models and the Mosfets not able to handle the power loads when people were over volting them or putting max power through in very low ratios ( the motor not spinning fast enough to cool ), Bafung seems to have solved this with the later units and a different Mosfet set up, talk to any UK dealer such as Darren at Brighton Ebikes and the go to unit is the BBS02.

The TDSZ2 seems to have had a very few outer plastic gears chip but almost exclusively these were caused by riders using them in a way which would probably have damaged both the BBS02 or the TDSZ2. Certainly my unit seems to have more torque at low revs than the BBS02 and its far too easy to ride in much too lower gear and you still can pull away up hills, where as the BBS02 unit I have, seems to want you to change into a higher gear more intuitively ( possibly less torque at low revs ). My guess if you ride the TDSZ2 as you would a normal bike ie changing into a high gear to pull off or up hills then you won't have much trouble with the gear, fall back position is to fit one of the bronze gears that's available as a retro fit.

Lets put both motors into perspective on the numbers sold ( Bafung have sold into the millions on the BBS02 ) and the problems are a tiny percentage.

At 6ft 2" you really do need to be on a 29er, think of the leverage of your height and the lower spindle position on the front wheel of a 26er and you will immediately see why the larger diameter wheel will suit you better. We may have had 26er wheels for ever but the only reason we had 26" wheels was availability, 700c wheels were always considered to be better for off road, right from the early mtbs, but there were no manufacturers willing to make suitable tires. That's not the case anymore and one only has to ride the new generation of 27.5+ tires and you will appreciate just how much they have improved over the 26".

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Epyon » Jan 04, 2018 1:57 pm

Stefunlekite wrote:
Jan 04, 2018 6:09 am
So you see it s a dilemma. I still ask myself how is it possible that we’ve been riding 26 inch wheels for years (even still now in downhill) and now they are bad…Is 2.5 width enough to compensate for 26 vs 27.5? One the reason normal mtb switch to 27.5 and 29 is for better pedaling power but that s not an issue with the motor. But they do add grip and a better angle for climbing stuff. At the same time I’m 6’2 and 89 kg so I would think to bigger wheels would be a good idea.
26 will NEVER be bad. Even with modern carbon rims, 29 is a more flexy wheel build. They lag behind 26 on technical terrain. They're not confidence inspiring when in the air either (jumping). 29 does top 26 in plowing over big stuff, obviously due to the rollover diameter. Until recently they would fail, ie "taco" sooner. In my opinion 27.5 is a failing experiment forced as a compromise to help with the "transition" to 29. If you want to bomb down a track with minimal tech stuff then a 29er should be faster. For tight berms and big air, I'd stick with 26.

Unless you're sponsored, then you figure out how to ride whatever they want you to...............


As for tire width, an older (early/mid 2000's) downhill bike is more likely to be designed for big rubber than anything newer. Nowadays a 2.5" tire is considered large whereas back in the day guys were running 3" Gazzaloddi's. We'd even drop to 24" rims to fit them if necessary.


And finally, my recommendation for a frame (since it's the only one I've electrified so far). The Glorious Balfa BB7!
IMG_20170813_123854.jpg
HEAVILY modified of course. Widened rear end, 3.5" tires. Altered geometry, etc. The BBSHD tucks up very high.
Last edited by Epyon on Jan 09, 2018 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Waynemarlow
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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Waynemarlow » Jan 04, 2018 6:14 pm

“Heavily modified” yup that’s the truth of it, even the older downhill bikes have pretty tight angles compared to the slack tube angles we have today, bikes have made a new technological jump in the past 2 or 3 years ( and that’s something I thought I would never say ) for the better.

Before convincing yourself of the need to buy an older 26er go and try a latest 29er or 27.5er, there’s loads of opportunity to test ride stuff, for the extra 2 or 3 hundred quid in buying say a 2016 bike, you will be well rewarded with a much better bike.

Also do consider the mid range bike such as the Whyte M109S as the slightly heavier components are better suited for the electric conversion.

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Kitaro1999 » Jan 05, 2018 9:39 am

Have you explored something like the Frey bikes with the newer bafang ultra motor ? It is heavy, and probably over budget, but the torque sensing portion makes it better. I cannot comment on the geometry of the Frey bike.

Another option is to explore the Luna made bicycles - they have a good range with the Apex on the high end and a bunch like the Giant Anthem in the $2000-$3000 range (which is what it will be fully assembled if you do it with components).

A thought - why not build something you like ? May be build a Ti frame you like from Waltly or other manufacturers that supports the ultra, and build something that checks all the boxes - weight, geometry, etc. It will probably work out to be cheaper than the Luna Apex for a similar spec. Building bikes is really not hard, or you can pay your LBS a couple of hundred to build it for you.

On the gear sensor, I think for off road you probably want one. There are too many times when the motor is spinning that might cause drive chain failures (chain popping in my case) without one. Also, you are better off going with an IGH. Everyone recommends a Rolhoff but i am happy with my affordable Shimano Nexus 3. I am not climbing mountains on this thing and it holds up really well for basic off road. I have NOT put a gear sensor on the IGH.

My story is not similar to yours but I switched from a hard tail to a full suspension for mostly city commuting. I didnt want multiple bikes in my stable so effectively pooled 3 different types into a single highly serviceable custom built version. My choices are not for everyone but I'd rather ride one good bike all the time than ride 3 bikes that are wanting in some aspects.

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Kitaro1999 » Jan 05, 2018 9:42 am

Ha!
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mot ... -bikes.htm

funny that BikesDirect has an ebike now :)

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by mr.electric » Jan 07, 2018 11:23 am

Agreed to check out Luna cycles offering. Really nothing close to the level they are offering for high performance full suspension EMTB.
-Fat Sand Bike with 9c and 29ah pack

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Stefunlekite » Jan 07, 2018 2:58 pm

Thank you again guys
@mr.electric: yes thanks I would love to buy from Luna but I m located in the uk and don't want to be hit hard with import duties. There full emtb from giant are nice, and it s what I m aiming for.

@Kitaro1999: looks nice but want to do my own.
Building a frame: I m trying to stick with my budget
Luna: as above.
Gear sensor: thanks I ll get one
Full suspension in town: Totally agree people often how comfortable a full sus is in pothole bad pavement etc...

@Waynemarlow: I'm following your advice skipping older 26 and going for more modern see next reply.

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Stefunlekite » Jan 07, 2018 3:12 pm

SO I PULLED THE TRIGGER! Got the bike!
Couldn't pass such a good deal. Got a 2015 KTM LYCAN, it has:
- 27,5 tire 2,5 width (it s not a 29er or + tires but that s out of my budget for enduro bike. Strong alex rims
- Upgraded high quality fox performance 34 front 150mm back 130mm (got the orignial rockshox with it to sell)
- 200mm Slx brake in the front 180 at the back
- Modern and beefed Geometry with Plenty of space for battery (it s an XL 21 inch) and the motor as no kinky down tube.

Picture: http://www.ktm-bikes.cl/bikes/2015/full ... 3-146.html

Now the bad: Shimano pressfit BB92 ahhh (same as modern giant)! Yep super annoying as far as I know I can only fit a BBSHD with an adaptor: https://lunacycle.com/bbshd-locking-bb- ... 6-5mm-bbs/
Or I can still go for a cyclone

OR do you guys think this one will work (way cheaper): https://www.ebay.com/itm/J-L-BB92-BB86- ... tnBk7EtrMQ

I guess the bike coudn't have everything I wanted...the deal was to good

@Waynemarlow: your comment on the TDSZ2 made me want to take that option but to my knowledge no way to adapt it to this bike right? Max 73 mm. Anybody know if someone managed?
What about a BBS02? any way to fit it on this bike. I don t think I need 1000w as I want to use my legs and save on battery

Sanding down 18 mm of the BB to get 73mm is a bad idea? I mean it s sticking out from the frame...so I don t know if it will be that bad?

Thanks again guys, I m getting there and will definitely keep you in the loop
Last edited by Stefunlekite on Jan 07, 2018 3:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Kitaro1999
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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Kitaro1999 » Jan 07, 2018 3:16 pm

Check out this adapter as well - https://www.empoweredcycles.com/blogs/n ... -41-89-5mm
Good luck with your build. The bike looks cool!

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Mad Matt » Jan 07, 2018 5:41 pm

Looks like it should be an exiciting build.

https://praxiscycles.com/conversion-bb/

This adapter may be worth looking into?
Also if you could custom build a hard cased battery to go above mid drive motor and below down tube can make the motor and battery stand out less. Sort of a wedge shaped battery that clears the front tyre when it compresses.

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Stefunlekite » Jan 09, 2018 10:28 am

Hey so back with more decision: a friend of a friend is a bike guru and doctor. He has:
1) told me the extra 1.9cm on the BB are not necessary to maintain frame integrity. It was design this way to be able to fit a bb92.
2) he can grind it no problem. He makes his own frames so it s nothing for him!

So back in the game of choosing the right motor. As confirmed by some here, I believe I don t need tons of power just the right help (torque) at the right moment. I m now leaning towards the lower cost and capacity motors. I think I like the tsdz2 more because compared to the bbso2:
- it s said to be more pedalling feeling because of the torque sensor than the Pas from the bbso2.
- lighter
- reliability issues have been sorted a bit it seems. Metal gear replacement has solved the blue gear issue. I plan of using my gears to rest the engine. Still bafang is the proven solution...
My question s are
1) Do you agree with this choice?
2)What version do you recommend: it seems that you can get anything 36- 52v and 250-750w.
The 36v 500w would save me on cost of batteries. But would it be Powerful enought? What is the weight link to batteries v and amps?

What worries me though is although I could fit 73mm into the BB (I read on one Amazon review that up to 80 the tsdz2 can take it)what about those problems:
1) the motor might not fit the chainstay?
2) the chain might be misaligned or touch the frame?
3) the motor might not fit and touch the frame?

Thanks again!

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Waynemarlow » Jan 09, 2018 1:02 pm

Don't be too panicky about the BB92, they normally have a push fit section through the BB and you can push them out or punch them out with a hammer and punch. As to width, if you are prepared to modify the frame then go for it as you get into the win win situation of grinding off almost all of the chain side of the BB which gives a much better chain alignment, the very thing that plagues most conversions. Do be careful though that these late bikes have a Boost 142 mm rear hub which allows a much wider tyre, you can get into the situation if you grind too much off, that the motor will clash with the rear sub frame just about at the tyre / gear section. Go as close as you can though as it will bring the gears into much better chain alignment.

Do consider a tool bag just underneath the seat, they are widely available in various sizes and we have found after making specific frame boxes that fit into the triangle, the higher CG of the battery makes little or no difference.

With the TDSZ2 go with the 36V as you can then fit a 48V controller which ups the cadence rate at which the engine backs off on power which is woefully slow for the fitter riders but great for the average rider. We have found in UK conditions that the 36V 500W is more than enough if you are prepared to put a bit of energy in.

The BBS02 is a bit different in that you can program all factors to your hearts content but and its a big but, it numbs the bike feel and puts it into a moped feel. My 750W is over volted to 52v and reprogrammed to my riding but in all honesty its too powerful, its great if you simply want a blast to the top of the hill or when you give it to your mates to ride, they end up doing power slides in the car park. Its worthwhile talking to Brighton Ebikes a bit and get one of their twist throttles, as this was the only way that I could really get the motor to put in as much energy as needed rather than just put in the dialled in power requirement when the peddles are turning. The throttle then becomes much like a throttle on an enduro bike and if you treat it as such its a joy and real hoot to ride but you suddenly find you are powering all the way to the top of the hill ready for the next downhill having not really put in any effort and your mates are still at the 1/2 way point. The consequence is that you use a lot more battery capacity and you will need probably 12.0 ah battery packs at the minimum where as you can get away with 6.0ah slabs with the TDSZ2.

I have seemed to have been down your path already and learnt a lot along the way. Do consider building your own batteries as you can get 3400 ma batteries now at what seems bargain prices, but do your research into your actual needs as max amps will limit your battery selection somewhat. By building your own or getting custom battery builds done ( look on the UK Ebay site ) you can customise the battery form into quite a tight slab rather than the more normal water bottle form.

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Stefunlekite » Jan 09, 2018 4:38 pm

@ Waynemarlow: Thanks a lot for the help, you are very knowledgeable. Great support :D

- tool bag: sure good tip

- TDSZ2 choice: I don't understand what is the benefit of ordering a 36v to than modify it to have 48, when you can order directly at 48? Do you mean the 36v can take 48 too? Or is it because it can hack the system in getting more power?

- Uk condition: I m 45 minutes away from the cairngorms mountains. I plan on doing some rides there but occasionally only. So I guess big battery for there.

- Moped feel: I was hesitant at first because I love enduro motorbiking. But now when I think about it, I don t ride as much as I want and keeping fit matters. So I guess still going for the 500W TDSZ2 would enable me to have a bit of grin too. But who knows I might change my mind and go for the 1000W bbshd all the way! The thing is I don t think I ll go a lot if i don t go with my friends and they ride normal bike. They are way fitter than me though...

What is your feeling on technical bits, doesn't the throttle on off feeling makes it harder?

- For the batteries : sure feel free to give me some sellers name I m definitely interested as I don t think I ll be soldering my own. Unless they are some easy kits to do so

- Frame: modify the bb yes no problem but not the chainstay and suspension pivot. That s where I m nervous about:
Image

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Stefunlekite » Jan 09, 2018 4:40 pm

Image

Bascially on that side the 36/22 crankset fits pretty tight with the suspension pivot arm which lays onthe bottom part of the crankset...
by shaving the bb that would make it even tighter...

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Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Stefunlekite » Jan 09, 2018 4:45 pm

on the other side, it s sitting on the higher part of the frame
Image

The bike is upside down for all photos.

Stefunlekite
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Dec 22, 2017 5:00 am

Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Stefunlekite » Jan 09, 2018 5:12 pm

so now looking at the diagram of the TDSZ2
Image

1) the chainring is bigger than the 150mm for the current one is either very tight or touching with current BB92 so with the shorter one I have huge doubts! Can It be changed?
2) the other side seems to be ok

Well pretty nervous, should I go BBSHD and not think about it? Too powerfull and too pricey for my taste...

Waynemarlow
100 W
100 W
Posts: 128
Joined: Jul 09, 2016 7:22 am
Location: Bucks, England

Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Waynemarlow » Jan 10, 2018 1:55 pm

15mm is a lot of clearance in bike terms. Have a look at https://electricbike-blog.com/bbs02-fatbikes/ where he talks about fatbikes also with 100 mm wide BB. My guess is that you will have loads of room and like a friend of mine, simply took to the BB with a grinder and cut off the required amount. Somewhere on that same Electric Blog site is a discussion paper on the various BB's and the Bafung engines, I think the TDSZ2 is the roughly the same and in fact I think it has a little more clearance between the actual BB and the TDSZ2 crank tube which brings into play a few more of the carbon frames which have quite thick area around the BB shell.

Does the throttle make it harder on the Bafung, no the opposite, you can program the throttle to suit your requirements and instead of the engine simply putting in say 20% power as soon as you turn the peddle, you can ramp up the throttles setting so that at the first part of the turn it puts in little power. Again the Electricbike Blog has a brilliant section on programming the Bafung and if you follow the basics with the Swedish guys software you can play to your hearts content.

Why the 36V rather than the 48V version, well there's a great thread on this site for the TDSZ2 and consider it homework to read it, you will understand why I'm advocating the 36V version.

If you are at all a bit mechanically minded and with a bit of reading on this site and others, you should be able to work things out that suits you. If you are not mechanically minded then go get an off the shelf Ebike, some of them are darn good.

Drop Dead Fred
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Dec 16, 2017 3:51 pm

Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jan 11, 2018 12:56 am

Stefunlekite wrote:
Jan 09, 2018 5:12 pm
so now looking at the diagram of the TDSZ2
Image

1) the chainring is bigger than the 150mm for the current one is either very tight or touching with current BB92 so with the shorter one I have huge doubts! Can It be changed?
2) the other side seems to be ok

Well pretty nervous, should I go BBSHD and not think about it? Too powerfull and too pricey for my taste...
Not sure what you're willing to spend but I tripped across a carbon fiber frame with mid drive motor for about $1300 USD delivered.

It is an 18" so if you ride a medium...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-NE ... 42406.html

No battery...
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Stefunlekite
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Dec 22, 2017 5:00 am

Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Stefunlekite » Jan 12, 2018 5:40 am

Waynemarlow wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 1:55 pm
15mm is a lot of clearance in bike terms. Have a look at https://electricbike-blog.com/bbs02-fatbikes/ where he talks about fatbikes also with 100 mm wide BB. My guess is that you will have loads of room and like a friend of mine, simply took to the BB with a grinder and cut off the required amount. Somewhere on that same Electric Blog site is a discussion paper on the various BB's and the Bafung engines, I think the TDSZ2 is the roughly the same and in fact I think it has a little more clearance between the actual BB and the TDSZ2 crank tube which brings into play a few more of the carbon frames which have quite thick area around the BB shell.

Does the throttle make it harder on the Bafung, no the opposite, you can program the throttle to suit your requirements and instead of the engine simply putting in say 20% power as soon as you turn the peddle, you can ramp up the throttles setting so that at the first part of the turn it puts in little power. Again the Electricbike Blog has a brilliant section on programming the Bafung and if you follow the basics with the Swedish guys software you can play to your hearts content.

Why the 36V rather than the 48V version, well there's a great thread on this site for the TDSZ2 and consider it homework to read it, you will understand why I'm advocating the 36V version.

If you are at all a bit mechanically minded and with a bit of reading on this site and others, you should be able to work things out that suits you. If you are not mechanically minded then go get an off the shelf Ebike, some of them are darn good.
fitting: I share your feeling. I ve taken dimensions again, and it looks like should fit. The chainring is standard bcd 110 so shoudn't be a problem! Now the adapter BB92 (41,5mm) to BSA (35mm) will need some of the recess
36 vs 48v: I m reading the 53 pages, takes a while!
Yes I'm going for it, I'm no mechanic but I can figure out quite a bit!

What seller do you recommend for UK delivery? I ve read:
pswpower: looks like they have a eu warehouse http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp? ... GAYM.4WTRY
But it s $110 more than the chinese warehouse http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp? ... QDKT.6P4CE
They only have the 38v 350 on the EU warehouse whereas I wanted the 500W...Is it true that you don't really need the 500 as the 350 is already powerfull enough and that the fragile gear woudn't like the extra power anyway?
auto-ebike.

Anything on ebay to get the paypal guarantees?

- What display: I like the small form factor of the xh18 but looks like if I want to add throttle one day I need VLCD5?

Stefunlekite
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 11
Joined: Dec 22, 2017 5:00 am

Re: What is now the best and easy option for full suspension EMTB?

Post by Stefunlekite » Jan 12, 2018 3:52 pm

Drop Dead Fred wrote:
Jan 11, 2018 12:56 am
Stefunlekite wrote:
Jan 09, 2018 5:12 pm
so now looking at the diagram of the TDSZ2
Image

1) the chainring is bigger than the 150mm for the current one is either very tight or touching with current BB92 so with the shorter one I have huge doubts! Can It be changed?
2) the other side seems to be ok

Well pretty nervous, should I go BBSHD and not think about it? Too powerfull and too pricey for my taste...
Not sure what you're willing to spend but I tripped across a carbon fiber frame with mid drive motor for about $1300 USD delivered.

It is an 18" so if you ride a medium...

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-NE ... 42406.html

No battery...
Thanks it does look very nice but I m more of a large to xl type of guy :D
I already have a bike and it s an xl!

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