[nearly original] Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Topics on an epic scale that are preserved for all to read.
RVD
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 436
Joined: Apr 26, 2011 7:51 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by RVD » Aug 06, 2011 3:32 am

there's so much drama in the E.S.C....

funny enough i worked at the same company as andy r at one of his past companies (xpedior) but it has been many years and i left the company in 1999 while he started in 1999. we had a denver office where i am guessing he worked. i was in the san francisco office. i can dig around with some friends who worked out of denver to get the low down...i remember when we started that denver office.

trevor sounds a lot like a guy that i sort of knew from berkeley. he's a few years younger than me but his name is trevor buckingham. is that you trevor?

some info on trevor (if he is indeed the "infamous" tjb from cal): http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dhsu/stuff/Text/tbsaga.txt

vbulletin (the company owned by internet brands) took over a gardening website called davesgarden.com. omg, the revolt was huge. dave was rumored to have received 6 figures in the deal but the posters did the same stuff everyone here is talking about...deleting posts, etc. dave left to create another website and had some gardening stuff in there so everyone followed him. of course internet brands wasn't very happy about that, etc. this kind of reminds me of that: http://www.gardenbloggers.com/2010/05/r ... arden.html

anyway, i'm here because all of the experts are here. if the experts leave, i leave.

and stop bashing on business people. i have an MBA...it was very expensive :)
TidalForce S-750, Crystalyte HS3540, 14s lipo. Build Thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =6&t=27525
Dahon Speed D7, e-bikekit 350 watt geared motor, 12s lipo. Build Thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =6&t=34958
Breezer Uptown, BBS02 750w, 12s lipo

User avatar
Philistine
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2042
Joined: Aug 15, 2010 7:33 am

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by Philistine » Aug 06, 2011 3:35 am

Under US law, the only relevant legal interest is that of who owns the domain name, and that has been sold to Trevor presumably. The members of this forum have no legal (either legislative nor under common law, nor even under equitable doctrine) right to be considered in the administration of the forum. In relation to the intellectual property, to begin with the content at hand would have to be be shown to be an intellectual "work", which some of the content on here would be. But I am sure in the terms of the forum (without having read them), there would be something in there about how posting grants at least a non-exclusive license to the forum owner (the owner of the domain name).

But at the end of the day it is irrelevant to even think or consider the legal side of it, because at the end of the day if there is a mutiny of members they will simply leave. I personally think it is a pretty simple situation we have here, either the forum will stay as the members want, or the members will leave and create their own forum. There is huge solidarity in the membership, and I have little doubt it will be one of those two outcomes. I just think it is pointless arguing over the legal side of it, that part is pretty obvious (ie, Trevor can do whatever he likes), but the reality is if he doesn't act in accordance with the wishes of the membership they will just mutiny and leave, which is the real sanction he will face. Threats of litigation are pointless and a waste of time.

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 23920
Joined: Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by amberwolf » Aug 06, 2011 3:41 am

mdd0127 wrote:Stuff was definitely edited and put in a different order on the first page. That's when I got the feeling my initial hunch about the future of the forum after reading the "open letter" was probably right.
Well, I've been locally saving each page of this thread as it has occured and I see it change with new posts added, each version as a different file. (just in case stuff does get edited out or whatever)

Since I saved the first version I saw of the first page, at 332am 8-5-11, yesterday morning (quite a while after it started, as I somehow missed it up at the top), the only thing I can see that has changed is Methods' post is no longer "Reserved", but has the text and links he said in a later post he was going to use it for.

All the rest of that first page is the same, AFAICS, so if it was changed, it happened before I ever saw it.

User avatar
Erogo
100 W
100 W
Posts: 172
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 4:39 pm
Location: Nelson New Zealand

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by Erogo » Aug 06, 2011 3:44 am

Be pretty cool if the dark knight left Trevwhore to his hollow sphere and gave all the funds to wherever the content and contributors end up. Chuckle. Be a pretty good way to keep the revolution liquid.

BTW did you see what this takeover did for the US credit rating? Ack!
fear the sphere

User avatar
amberwolf
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 23920
Joined: Aug 17, 2009 6:43 am
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Contact:

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by amberwolf » Aug 06, 2011 3:47 am

RVD wrote:trevor sounds a lot like a guy that i sort of knew from berkeley. he's a few years younger than me but his name is trevor buckingham. is that you trevor?

some info on trevor (if he is indeed the "infamous" tjb from cal): http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~dhsu/stuff/Text/tbsaga.txt
I doubt it. Based on info from the domain name records, this should be the Trevor that now owns the ES domain:

[snipped two links]
Last edited by justin_le on Aug 15, 2011 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Eliminating personal identifiable info -JLE

User avatar
dequinox
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 822
Joined: Oct 31, 2009 1:43 pm
Location: Eugene, OR

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by dequinox » Aug 06, 2011 3:48 am

Another, albeit cheesy, graphic in support of exporting our troublesome overlords.

[The extension bmp has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

What is matter? Never mind.
What is mind? No matter.

- Thomas Hewitt Key

STABLE:
HI-V (Retired); Sun Cruiser w/ Hill Topper Kit; Giant Simple Cruiser w/ Amazon 1000W Front Hub.
Parts donated by Rassy and Greenerwheels have made many of my builds possible, THANK YOU!!!

User avatar
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2270
Joined: Feb 09, 2007 3:02 am
Location: Marlboro

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Aug 06, 2011 3:49 am

amberwolf wrote:The one thing I do think is that we as a group ought to be a bit less...raunchy about it all.
idk man.
Trev-Whore is pretty clever, mildly amusing even.
but T-Bag, ooo, that ones a keeper.

as to your alleged hypocrisy, i don't see it.
and (i think u know) i'm damn quick to call someone to the carpet when they are.
your work, your domain, your call.
difference is, you're not hi-jacking or conscripting some else's sweat equity.

auraslip wrote:3: Give us a price. We will come up with the money to match it.
howz $1.5 mil. sound.
still think you can match it??
never know if that's what ol' T-Bag believes in the ES potential to be.
and what makes everyone so certain michael brown (the mb after knight) sold out for cash only?
the deal could be for a slice of the pie, with or without some small amount of cash.

mwkeefer wrote: I think the time is finally here, lord knows I've offered to mirror and even host this damn thing for free just to ensure no further data losses over time and I could care a less about bandwidth,
... I also offered to just mirror the data, or just free hosting from my clusters (across the US and Eurpoe) to knightkmb.... never seemed an interest.
lotsa people have made similar offers, swbluto for one comes to mind.
every time they've been rejected without saying why.
the only explanation is that michael brown jealously guarded the database ownership not willing to relinquish control for the purpose of eventual sale.



methods wrote:Running away like a bunch of scared girls?
NOPE
I am not leaving this place to those scammer punks to profit off of

I AM NEVER LEAVING
YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT A TROLL IS UNTIL YOU GET A LOT OF ME PUNKS!!!!!

They want LFP and all the outspoken people to leave so they can just post the number and milk the dead husk that is left.

Lets PAINT THE WALLS WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING

Don't delete your posts
Post the Truth!

-methods
i agree, i've never understood the purpose behind mass deletion.
not b4 & certainly not now.
for various reasons already pointed out it's wasted effort that would be better spent setting up new diggs.
it's the only option left open to us.

as much as i admire your gung-ho determination to try & stay, i firmly believe you're clinging to an already dead husk.
i think you & most others are past the first stages of denial & anger now moving into bargaining.
it's wishful thinking that T-Bag or anyone will make a deal to simply walk away from a pile of found money.

they've gone thru this process soo many times already it must be quite predictable to them by now.
i'm sur T-Bag & Robin are having a good chuckle right now over some brewskys about all the sturm und drang und rending of sackcloth.
having seen it all play out the same way over & over, all the while knowing full well the inevitable that's coming & there's not a damn thing the chattel can do to prevent it.
everyone just needs to reach acceptance stage that it...is..over.

just check the main page & you'll see we're squarely in his house now.
so when did this happen, during the most recent forum 'upgrade'?
and where did the web-hosting company michael brown worked for move to if i want to get i touch with them?
uninspired logo btw, much preferred the wire frame sphere.

time to move it on up to the east side.
Kick down the barricades Listen what the kids say.
From time to time people change their minds But the Frock is here to stay.
I've seen it all from the bottom to the top Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.
Around the world or around the block Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.

User avatar
mdd0127
1 MW
1 MW
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sep 30, 2008 4:43 pm

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by mdd0127 » Aug 06, 2011 3:50 am

amberwolf wrote:
mdd0127 wrote:Stuff was definitely edited and put in a different order on the first page. That's when I got the feeling my initial hunch about the future of the forum after reading the "open letter" was probably right.
Well, I've been locally saving each page of this thread as it has occured and I see it change with new posts added, each version as a different file. (just in case stuff does get edited out or whatever)

Since I saved the first version I saw of the first page, at 332am 8-5-11, yesterday morning (quite a while after it started, as I somehow missed it up at the top), the only thing I can see that has changed is Methods' post is no longer "Reserved", but has the text and links he said in a later post he was going to use it for.

All the rest of that first page is the same, AFAICS, so if it was changed, it happened before I ever saw it.
I didn't save it but it was definitely edited. I was kind of shocked by it all but if my memory serves me correctly, the first post was knightmb, then luke asking who trevor was, then my post. I'm pretty sure some other posts have been.......re-worded? too. I could be wrong but the second time I came back and looked at the thread, I immediately noticed the edits.
Turn it OFF!!!

Apocaloptimist! (thx Kiwi!)

User avatar
auraslip
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3719
Joined: Mar 05, 2010 5:19 pm

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by auraslip » Aug 06, 2011 3:54 am

But I am sure in the terms of the forum (without having read them), there would be something in there about how posting grants at least a non-exclusive license to the forum owner (the owner of the domain name).
I screen capped the agreement for new members. Fortunately for us, we never agreed to anything like this. We never gave up the rights to anything we post.

Which means we can delete our posts, or force the owners to delete them for us. This is our legal right.

DMCA take down notices are very easy to send, and the legal penalty for not obeying even one is probably more than they payed for the whole site.

Sure, we can threaten to leave and start our own forum. They don't want that, but it'll be no big loss to them because they still have years of valuable information that will continue to drive traffic to the forum. But you know what? If we strip down all good posts and stop posting, than the forum is WORTHLESS. To newbies, to the community, and most importantly, to the new owners who invested their money in it.

Members here have already backed up our posts. We have plenty of people willing to host and run a new forum. We have the tools to strip down endless sphere. We have nothing to lose. So I ask you, Social Knowledge, not what do you have to lose, but what do you have to gain?
THANKS TO EVERYONE HERE WHO TAUGHT ME ABOUT EBIKES. I'M IN YOUR DEBT.

I sell Ebike Brake levers and throttles with custom connectors crimped on! $10 shipped!

ES facebook group

r/ebikes ebikes on reddit

User avatar
Andje
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 814
Joined: Aug 25, 2010 11:03 am

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by Andje » Aug 06, 2011 3:59 am

I am deeply saddened by this turn of events.

Why did you pick a forum of people who are independent thinkers and revolutionists to try and milk for cash? We don't even obey the speed limits or red lights when we don't want to, why would we stay when we feel commercialized?

If Trevor was legit he would have 50 posts to his name just from this thread.

Like many other people ready for exodus, i can only hope that the transition is smooth.

Love you ES, see you at the crossroads...
Norco 125 Dirt Jumper
100v 15ah Lipo Backpack
lyens 18 fet, 100v 100 amps, R12 Regen
x5304- 95km/h
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=24594
Norco A-Line Park 2009
144v Kelly 300amp
5403/ future HS60
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=35652

User avatar
neptronix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13061
Joined: Jun 15, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: People's republic of Petrolistan ( Utah, USA )
Contact:

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by neptronix » Aug 06, 2011 4:01 am

auraslip wrote: Members here have already backed up our posts. We have plenty of people willing to host and run a new forum. We have the tools to strip down endless sphere. We have nothing to lose. So I ask you, Social Knowledge, not what do you have to lose, but what do you have to gain?
Do it quick and hope they do not have database backups to restore all the 'content' we have produced.

Do not hesitate to fvck your data up. Unless you are okay with fat cats making money off your hard work and turning this into an intelligence-free vacuum.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

User avatar
neptronix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13061
Joined: Jun 15, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: People's republic of Petrolistan ( Utah, USA )
Contact:

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by neptronix » Aug 06, 2011 4:01 am

Andje wrote:Love you ES, see you at the crossroads...
+1
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

User avatar
Erogo
100 W
100 W
Posts: 172
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 4:39 pm
Location: Nelson New Zealand

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by Erogo » Aug 06, 2011 4:06 am

Seriously though, isn't knighty getting off a bit lightly? I mean, he's the one who has financally benefitted out of content he KNEW was nfs. Trevwhore doesn't know his a55 from his 3780w, and he could well lose out big from his naivety. I almost feel sorry for him. Not enough to think the site should be bought back off him, but knighty? Jeez, there's you a55h073 right there, no?

(i mean, I don't know either of them, but from seems)
fear the sphere

jonathanm
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 532
Joined: May 15, 2011 2:17 am

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by jonathanm » Aug 06, 2011 4:06 am

Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh wrote: howz $1.5 mil. sound.
hahahahahaha. Don't say that, you will have me sympathizing for poor Trevor. That's like paying a fortune for a baseball team with only 3 pro quality players all of whom's contracts have ran out anyway and all of them are more than happy to leave.

Looks like endless sphere = ending here

User avatar
GGoodrum
100 MW
100 MW
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sep 20, 2007 2:03 pm
Location: South Orange County, CA
Contact:

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by GGoodrum » Aug 06, 2011 4:11 am

Holy crap! :shock: 23 pages? I just spent the last three hours, getting caught up. I'm a bleary-eyed now, so I'll wait until morning to add my two cents, but suffice it to say I am in full support of the notion to not let these guys get away with making even one nickel on our collective IP. Luke, methods, BigMoose, ypedal, Justin, Amberwolf, et al., you have my backing and support 100%.

It's 2:00 am here, so it's time to get back to the girls, before they figure out the matresses are stuffed with cash... :roll: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

--Gary


GMUseless wrote:It looks to me like most of the vendors on here are guys who are selling items as a service to the community. You think Gary is getting drunk with high dollar call girls and rolling around naked in pile of cash and non-release candidate BMS boards every night? Icecube’s making shit-tons off those headers? So some how T-whore is just going to “Monetize” the hell out of those guys? I think not. Say hello to your new Daddy fellahs.

User avatar
Erogo
100 W
100 W
Posts: 172
Joined: Apr 13, 2011 4:39 pm
Location: Nelson New Zealand

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by Erogo » Aug 06, 2011 4:20 am

trevor wrote: I used the ES community
ha ha ha
you sure did
tool
fear the sphere

Hillhater
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 8329
Joined: Aug 03, 2010 10:33 pm
Location: Sydney ..(Hilly part !) .. Australia/ Down under !

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by Hillhater » Aug 06, 2011 4:20 am

Just caught up on this. ! :shock: :shock:
Sad day, but it does seem as if the site is a lost cause and in order to limit T & A's profiting from this take over, we will have to adopt a "Scorched Earth" policy and destroy any posts (as many as possible) before they lock up the Edit facility. :cry: :evil: :cry: :evil: :cry:
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

modern_messiah
100 W
100 W
Posts: 152
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 5:44 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by modern_messiah » Aug 06, 2011 4:31 am

No wonder my most recent posts are not being answered - the community has normally jumped on helping newbies like me very quickly but this clearly has people (myself included) rattled.

I don't want to lose the help and advice of the great people that use these forums so if the members here do start a new forum it should be made very public where it is so we can all switch over.

Also I would delete my threads but lets be honest - you couldn't make any money from my mindless dribble haha.

jonathanm
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 532
Joined: May 15, 2011 2:17 am

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by jonathanm » Aug 06, 2011 4:34 am

Miles wrote:[Snipped link to businesses potentially under Trevor's name]
No wonder our Trevor is too busy to post on the forum he just bought, he owns or runs so many businesses he doesn't know what to do next! Of course he only buys things he has an interest in...As well as ebikes his other hobby is spreading his assets across multiple shell companies in the property development arena...
Last edited by justin_le on Aug 15, 2011 8:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Eliminating personal identifiable info -JLE

User avatar
neptronix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13061
Joined: Jun 15, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: People's republic of Petrolistan ( Utah, USA )
Contact:

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by neptronix » Aug 06, 2011 4:35 am

Join the facebook group and/or auraslip's email group, and/or luke's email group and you won't be left behind !

Yeah, 3 lifeboats going on right now, pretty crazy. If that isn't a sign of how strong this community is in the face of adversity, i don't know what is.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

jonathanm
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 532
Joined: May 15, 2011 2:17 am

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by jonathanm » Aug 06, 2011 4:36 am

sutr wrote:No, this is personal shit... And anyone who knows me will tell you eventually I end up on top. I have pmed someone here to explain more :!:
sutr, If it is something that is sensitive to yourself or those close to you then fair enough, or if it is something currently embroiled in litigation, but if it is something that could shed some light on this person and his motives then I implore you to speak up. This is a good chance to air your grievances in a public place. Who is this mystery man?

[Note from Justin, many short threatening posts from Sutr deleted, he seemed to have a personal issue with someone he mistakenly believed was Trevor, but shed no details]
Last edited by justin_le on Aug 15, 2011 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Adding context

modern_messiah
100 W
100 W
Posts: 152
Joined: Dec 15, 2010 5:44 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by modern_messiah » Aug 06, 2011 4:44 am

neptronix wrote:Join the facebook group and/or auraslip's email group, and/or luke's email group and you won't be left behind !

Yeah, 3 lifeboats going on right now, pretty crazy. If that isn't a sign of how strong this community is in the face of adversity, i don't know what is.
Thanks for the heads up, I have asked to join the FB group.

User avatar
neptronix
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 13061
Joined: Jun 15, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: People's republic of Petrolistan ( Utah, USA )
Contact:

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by neptronix » Aug 06, 2011 4:55 am

WOW. these forum acquisitions are crazy, look at this company, it is bigger than Andy's business FOR SURE..

http://www.internetbrands.com/our-brands/automotive/

This absolutely rubs me the wrong way, i used to be part of these car forums. Now they are littered with ads, and you know for sure there is payola with the vendors.

I weep for these internets. A huge corporate takeover over everything that is good is in progress. Things would be dumbed down to the level of cable television if they had their way.

Welcome to the endless sphere vertical. The internet's preeminent source for electric technology(tm)
Last edited by justin_le on Aug 15, 2011 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Eliminating personal identifiable info -JLE
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

User avatar
only1jake
100 W
100 W
Posts: 223
Joined: Sep 29, 2009 4:22 am

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by only1jake » Aug 06, 2011 4:56 am

I'm really annoyed to find this out!
I really hope you pull through Trevor and leave it as it is. You should be ashmed if you just want to go about and make a few bucks from thousands of peoples intelligence and knowledge.
If so we need to do something about it!

Either way you are free to come to http://ev.geek.nz/
Jake Saunders

User avatar
voicecoils
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2288
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 6:31 am
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Re: Open Letter to Endless Sphere Community

Post by voicecoils » Aug 06, 2011 4:57 am

Just logging on & discovering this mess.

It appears the sense of community ownership was seriously underestimated by the new 'owner'. :evil:

I was sad to see the original VisforVoltage turn into it's present nearly unusable format several years ago under new management and now it appears misfortune has struck E-S too. In those days, I lusted after the original ETEK, the Thunderstruck Jackel and Electric Moto Blade.

After nearly 4 years and almost 1600 posts on E-S, it's frustrating to to watch the community implode.

If it becomes necessary to abandon ship, I believe only Justin (ebikes.ca) has the wide support of E-S members to start a new & quickly thriving community. If he is willing to provide his ebike.com domain for the cause, it could truly take the ebike revolution to the next level of exposure.

Locked