The Build, Trek Pure, Bafang BBS01, progress

My stuff is apparently now in L.A. but they say I won't get it until Friday. Maybe it will show up sooner or maybe they're driving it across .

The battery case may be the only thing we ordered in common. Are you saying you can't get the battery off of the mount? Oh I see, you figured it out. Had me worried.

oldwahoo54 said:

My stuff is apparently now in L.A. but they say I won't get it until Friday. Maybe it will show up sooner or maybe they're driving it across .

The battery case may be the only thing we ordered in common. Are you saying you can't get the battery off of the mount? Oh I see, you figured it out. Had me worried.

Click to expand...

Giant brain fart. You'll like the battery. Sorry for the confusion. I just assumed the key locks out power, like an ignition. Nope. My order arrived 2-3 days ahead of the tracking prediction. I'm really enjoying this Ebike adventure. Now that I understand the "rules" it'll be easier. I'm amazed by the builds and ideas here. Sadly the frame I'm using is less than optimal. next build a pedal forward frame but with a LR mid drive. I was anxious an will enjoy this bike but I can already see that I can do so much more. As soon as I have my Vespa sale dollars an EM3ev battery, trike, LR mid drive , and Lyen controller us tome build is my dream. That'll make the forum nuts with questions! The Lovely has her eyes on the friction drive. I hope it will be an option from kepler. That way she can keep her favorite bike, a Trek Pure.

Almost nirvana.

Inching along, now that I know it works and the chain is set with no more clunking in the hub the niggling details begin. New screws and some rubber supports under the battery to fill space created by the curve of the frame. Side pull front rim brake is a design I've never seen but I should be good to go there. A couple of tools to make things easier in the future. Off to Sheldon Brown. I forgot how pedals were threaded and got the answer there. It looks like a few more trips are in order. I also need to clarify what parts constitute the 73MM kit. I don't know how it will shift under load but on the bench no problem. Ease of throttle and shift. Motor clearance is disappointing but I knew that was coming It's only an inch or so bellow the chainwheel.

I can't tell - why wouldn't the BBS01 motor fit inside the triangle vs. outside and below the bottom bracket?

With some grinding it would.
The part of the casting that the bolt for the fixing plate attaches to is in the way on one side and a bit of casing on the motor on the other. It really does look like the Raliegh might work. None around to try. It is so close. If I had a great shop or the skill i'd grind the frame and reinforce, along with narrowing the BB. Which I might just do yet to make it 68MM and set the chain line a little better. Not until I get the new hub wheel finished. Damn thing does run like hell!

I have an lectric cycles supplied BBS01 so I think they are similar.

Your issue #3 is the speed sensor wire, it is made to run along the chain stay & position the sensor so the small magnet that attaches to your spoke triggers the sensor. Make sure you rotate the sensor so that it is within less than 1/4" from the magnet on the spoke as the spoke passes. It is how the controller knows how fast you are going for speed limiting functions.

Best of luck to you on a interesting build.

By the way how much was the shipping from cell man if I might ask? It seems like it was very, very fast shipping from china.

tomjasz said:

With some grinding it would.
The part of the casting that the bolt for the fixing plate attaches to is in the way on one side and a bit of casing on the motor on the other. It really does look like the Raliegh might work. None around to try. It is so close. If I had a great shop or the skill i'd grind the frame and reinforce, along with narrowing the BB. Which I might just do yet to make it 68MM and set the chain line a little better. Not until I get the new hub wheel finished. Damn thing does run like hell!

Click to expand...

I really like that Trek Pure for an ebike build - It's a beautiful, beautiful build. REALLY nice the way the battery sits down in that huge triangle.

I'm a sucker for a good crank-forward ebike. They are terrible aerodynamically, but I love the huge size and the upright riding position. It gives you the ability to look motorists in the eye and challenge them if they start getting impatient and pushy - and believe me, I do.

In almost every other way (besides aerodynamics), a crank-forward bike is a great choice for electrification. The Bafang mid-drives seem to me to be one of the "cleanest" setups I've ever seen. I have a Raleigh Cadent i8 I want to try one on sometime.

Now I gotta ask you about those tires. They look great for cushioning and shock absorption and I'm loving that smooth tread. They ought to make that Pure ride like a flying carpet. But after you wear those tires out, you gotta try something from Schwalbe. I gained 2-3mph when I switched from the stock tire that came on the bike to Schwalbe Marathons. Big plus with the marathons is that if you're riding on good, smooth road surfaces, you can jack up the air pressure as far as 110psi, that's their max pressure rating. I've run them at 60-80psi on smooth roads and once again got another mph or so. For my very long commute, they have been a godsend.

It's supposed to mount UNDER the frame...so it can counter rotate up against the down tube. If it will fit inside the triangle...you could do that... But I have never seen a frame where the Bafang would have enough room inside the triangle.


Here's another trick... If your BB is 76mm you can actually Grind Off up to 7.5mm of the right side of the bracket. this will do two things... It will move your chainline Inboard...which might be advantageous for certain hubs or derailuers. And it will actually CENTER the pedals, which on the Bafang are usually 7-8 mm offset to the right. In other words, if your chainstays allow it, you can modify a 76mm BB to be 68mm by selectively slicing off the left and right side.


The one thing to be careful of is that the bafang's reduction gear housing has to clear the chainstay on the right side...and the housing has a recess on the inside surface that a 1.2mm LIP of the BB shell seats into... So proceed woth caution and measure carefully.


The one thing I can say is that your frame was not a good choice for the Bafang simply because of how the down tube comes out of the BB... Bafang's work best with down tubes that come out of the BB at an upward angle... Because that allows the motor to be swiveled forward and up, allowing greater ground clearance.

Another thing folks entertaining a Bafang should watch out for is that it will NOT fit in a BB that is oversize in terms of diameter. It won't fit in a frame with an eccentric BB ( which is most Treks and Most Ralieghs) nor in those over large carbon frame BBs.

sculptingman said:

It's supposed to mount UNDER the frame...so it can counter rotate up against the down tube. If it will fit inside the triangle...you could do that... But I have never seen a frame where the Bafang would have enough room inside the triangle.

Click to expand...

If I proceeded as someone suggested I'm "supposed to" I would have had a boring time getting to my middle 60's. Cripes, there are all sorts of imaginary rules broken here on a daily basis. That's how we learn and move forward. I think one or two flat foot designs MAY accommodate a center mount. We'll see. If not I had fun trying.

sculptingman said:

Here's another trick... If your BB is 76mm you can actually Grind Off up to 7.5mm of the right side of the bracket. this will do two things... It will move your chainline Inboard...which might be advantageous for certain hubs or derailuers. And it will actually CENTER the pedals, which on the Bafang are usually 7-8 mm offset to the right. In other words, if your chainstays allow it, you can modify a 76mm BB to be 68mm by selectively slicing off the left and right side.

Click to expand...

Actually that's not the case. If I removed 7.5mm from one side it would be screwed. It's almost spot on with this BB. Before I grind I want to check out some other frames. Call me a dreamer, or at least retired with to much time on my hands.

sculptingman said:

The one thing to be careful of is that the bafang's reduction gear housing has to clear the chainstay on the right side...and the housing has a recess on the inside surface that a 1.2mm LIP of the BB shell seats into... So proceed woth caution and measure carefully.

Click to expand...

sculptingman said:

The one thing I can say is that your frame was not a good choice for the Bafang simply because of how the down tube comes out of the BB... Bafang's work best with down tubes that come out of the BB at an upward angle... Because that allows the motor to be swiveled forward and up, allowing greater ground clearance.

Click to expand...

That was all clear to me going in and I actually acknowledged that It's fine, just no curb jumping. My scooters sit/sat lower to the ground. Never trashed any of them. Remember I'm an old fart life is fast enough and so is my new ride.

sculptingman said:

Another thing folks entertaining a Bafang should watch out for is that it will NOT fit in a BB that is oversize in terms of diameter. It won't fit in a frame with an eccentric BB ( which is most Treks and Most Ralieghs) nor in those over large carbon frame BBs.

Click to expand...

Most Treks except this one.

Look, not to be sarcastic but,decisions were already made. I like it. Perfect no. But I built it for me. So the search continues. If there is no better option THEN the grinder comes out. IF there is a pedal forward option I can still put the Trek back to original and recoup a few buck. OR maybe I'll say frock all to other advise and have that front drive.

Thanks for the thoughts I appreciate the learning.

Tom

jkbrigman said:

I really like that Trek Pure for an ebike build - It's a beautiful, beautiful build. REALLY nice the way the battery sits down in that huge triangle.

I'm a sucker for a good crank-forward ebike. They are terrible aerodynamically, but I love the huge size and the upright riding position. It gives you the ability to look motorists in the eye and challenge them if they start getting impatient and pushy - and believe me, I do.

In almost every other way (besides aerodynamics), a crank-forward bike is a great choice for electrification. The Bafang mid-drives seem to me to be one of the "cleanest" setups I've ever seen. I have a Raleigh Cadent i8 I want to try one on sometime.

Now I gotta ask you about those tires. They look great for cushioning and shock absorption and I'm loving that smooth tread. They ought to make that Pure ride like a flying carpet. But after you wear those tires out, you gotta try something from Schwalbe. I gained 2-3mph when I switched from the stock tire that came on the bike to Schwalbe Marathons. Big plus with the marathons is that if you're riding on good, smooth road surfaces, you can jack up the air pressure as far as 110psi, that's their max pressure rating. I've run them at 60-80psi on smooth roads and once again got another mph or so. For my very long commute, they have been a godsend.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I'm happy with the look. Disappointed I can fund a frame build to get what I want, but after checking out some other bikes I may have an alternative. I've made up my mind not to fund another scooter so that fees up 2k to play with a second bike. A dorkmeister special. It sure would be cool to have a list of frames that are properly sized. Maybe it there isn't one it would be good to start. I finally got through your build thread and will be pestering for some additional info if that's OK. It was a good read. I've got miles to go to understand much of what I read, but heck, I'm what 2 1/2 weeks in.

Thanks again,

Tom

tomjasz said:

Thanks, I'm happy with the look. Disappointed I can fund a frame build to get what I want, but after checking out some other bikes I may have an alternative. I've made up my mind not to fund another scooter so that fees up 2k to play with a second bike. A dorkmeister special. It sure would be cool to have a list of frames that are properly sized. Maybe it there isn't one it would be good to start. I finally got through your build thread and will be pestering for some additional info if that's OK. It was a good read. I've got miles to go to understand much of what I read, but heck, I'm what 2 1/2 weeks in.

Click to expand...

You are far ahead of where I was at that time. You:
- know your objectives and have built a bike to those objectives,
- chose a great bike (IMHO) to convert,
- bought a good product (the mid-drive and battery) from a great vendor. cell_man is excellent to deal with,

There's a great deal of pain you will have avoided by going the route you chose. The "seeing alternatives" never ends, you just kind of get used to it while continuing to invest and cultivate the bike you've already built. I can't tell you how many different bikes I've looked at and thought they would have been a better build. Just like you have done, you make the decision and go forward.

If I could do it over, I'd probably choose to convert:
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/town/urban_utility/district/steel_district/#
or...
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/town/urban_utility/transport/transport/#

I don't think you ever stop seeing bikes you'd like to convert....

JKB

Looking great so far to me. Motor in the frame would have been nice, but under slung looks fine to me too. It doesn't stick too far down, not way below the chainring.

I think he is right, you are avoiding a lot of the pain I suffered by trying some bogus stuff on the first try. It worked, but not near as well as your first try will.

But be warned, you will likely get hooked, and spend every dime you save on even more improvements. The ebikes have been very addictive to some of us. Just using them a lot will eventually run through a lot of batteries. Not hard at all to burn all your cycles in two years if you get hooked on the riding.

Thanks Dog, but no warning needed. I'm selling my VespaGTS250 today with just about every bell and whistle available on it. The buyer hasn't a clue about what he's actually getting. He keeps trying to get me down to blue book. But having driven 6 hours to get here I'm certain he won't drive off when I dig in.

I'm really looking forward to this adventure. It makes me grin like and old hippy who just started tripping. Or so I've read.
Seriously, this is amoung the most exciting things I've embarked on for any number of good reasons.

You, if I remember correctly, built a trike. Hows about a front drive on a trike? How do they perform?

Second build is already in dreaming/planning stages.

Yeah I only read about tripping too. :wink: But I read about it a lot.

The front hub on a trike works great, what works for dogshit is the upright delta trike itself, like the worksman or my Schwinn meridian.

They work fine though under 15 mph, which is why E-BikeKit stocks a special slow motor trike kit. If you do a trike, don't get the Schwinn. They have the worst wheel build on the rear rims I have ever seen. Those rims bent really fast with a front motor that did 30 mph.

I have not tried a bent delta trike though, those look great to me.

Rather than a trike, look into building a longtail out of two bikes, or get an extracycle kit.

Thanks Dog, but as my disability progresses I will lose additional balance. A reason the flat foot, pedal forward is a good solution for now. Also the reason the 325# scooter goes today. (a very disappointing day) Insufficient strength and balance. with a FF PF I simply put both feet down. Just missed a Trek trike. Not familiar with the ones you mentioned. Guess I better do some more homework.

dogman said:

Yeah I only read about tripping too. :wink: But I read about it a lot.

Click to expand...

Comment made my day, thank you.

Tripping on an entirely new rig. I bought two KHS Manhattan Smoothies. Two frame sizes. Both will have BBS01 drives. One is finished, the send kit is ordered today. I hope.

tomjasz said:

Tripping on an entirely new rig. I bought two KHS Manhattan Smoothies. Two frame sizes. Both will have BBS01 drives. One is finished, the send kit is ordered today. I hope.

Click to expand...

Second drive ordered from LaGrand.
$1,219.42 from Lectric
$1,114.26 from EM3ev

Dead project now an xtracycle cycle build?

Just read this and it may be number 3.

joe tomten said:

I have an xtracycle attached to an electra townie that i use as my commuter/work vehicle.

Works great. Carry 2 kids for 20 miles. Carry 150 lbs of feed. Carry any gear that i need to carry. Carry 2 pallets home if i want to.

With the crank forward townie low COG format - the whole rig is extremely stable at very low speeds, docile even.

But the long wheel base makes the whole ride very stable at speed, and you don't even really notice the elongated rig trailing along behind you.

I run a 48v 30 ahr system, 9C 2807 rear hub with a lyen 9 fet sensored controller. So I'm typically cruising at 25-30mph.

Don't know about all the issues that Neptx elucidates in his post. I just did a straight ahead rear hub motor and not trying to mount a massive etek mid-drive. So those issues simply weren't an issue for me.

The thing just works. Handy in every regard, stable at low speed, stable at high speed.

Couldn't be more straight forward from a construction/ implementation perspective.

Yes, there is the lowered look, but mounted on the townie it is perfectly appropriate - giving it that motocruiser look that every one raves about.

Click to expand...

Cell_Man stands firmly behind his sale and failed controller is being replaced along with thumb throttle.