DIY vs prebuilt bikes

mastermind1234321 · Jan 2, 2015

I am interested in getting a electric bike setup but am not sure if I should build my own or buy a ebike. I don't have a bike now so I would need to buy a bike along with the parts to make my own DIY setup if I went that way.

I don't care too much about going really fast, but I do want to be able to go offroad. Regardless of how I get a ebike, I want to get a mountain bike.

Racer_X · Jan 2, 2015

Welcome to the forum mastermind1234321,
DIY setup depends on your mechanical skill. Can you repair a bicycle flat tire?
What is your budget?
how far do you need to go?

Otherwise a factory built ebike will be a reliable workhorse that will probably meet most of your needs and last you years.

mastermind1234321 said:
I am interested in getting a electric bike setup but am not sure if I should build my own or buy a ebike. I don't have a bike now so I would need to buy a bike along with the parts to make my own DIY setup if I went that way.

I don't care too much about going really fast, but I do want to be able to go offroad. Regardless of how I get a ebike, I want to get a mountain bike.

arkmundi · Jan 2, 2015

In my opinion, building your own will be more satisfying. It only requires some intelligence, dexterity and simple tools - its within reach of almost anyone who wants to do it. By "build" we mean getting a kit and putting it on yourself. On a bike of your choice.

One thing to keep in mind is that federal consumer protection laws disallow the selling of premade eBikes with anything greater than 750 watt motors. When I did my first build, I was all too concerned and got a 500 watt motor. I was happy enough, but like most ES community members who get into it, the power was just not enough. In particular, there were hills that remained a bit tough to negotiate and it was the hills more than anything that motivated me to begin with to find an assist. I went from 500 watts to a 1000 watts on my second and current build. I can't see going back and my first build is now collecting dust.

You'll be happier in the long run, as well, by getting a bike suited in every way to yourself - you height, style of riding, going off-road, needs for "comfort", etc. Prebuilt eBikes will be vastly restricting your choices. There are lots & lots of used bikes for sale, via eBay, Craigslist and through your local bike shop and its what I generally recommend to people who want in but don't have suitable bike to start with.

There's one final reason however. By building it yourself, you'll be better able to also maintain & repair it yourself. I went car-free after a while and will never go back to owning one, because of all the associated costs & hassle of keeping a car on the road. Bikes in general, and eBikes are a must better transport option, because of all the obnoxious costs associated with owning and maintaining a car. So yea, go for it!

dogman dan · Jan 2, 2015

A lot just depends on your budget and mechanical skills.

When I wanted a longtail cargo bike, welding two old bikes into one was tons cheaper than buying a surly. Is it better? In some ways yes, nobody will steal this thing. It's way to ugly and heavy. I'm working now on something lighter and less ugly, but more for the fun of it than anything. I'd say most of us on this forum DIY mostly for the fun, and partly to save a buck.

You mention off road riding, I don't know what level of riding you mean, but serious trail riding is so much better on a very good full suspension bike. Used, these will be $500 minimum, hell a really good fork alone is $500 or more.

Top of the line ready to ride ebikes off road wonderfully, such as the stealth bomber, or other mid drive bikes that are based on very good frames. But that does not mean that milder trails cannot be ridden just fine on the lower priced bikes with only a cheap front shock. It just depends on what you want out of the bike, even a very modest street commuter with a beach cruiser tire can handle a bit of dirt.

Let us know a bit more about what your needs, or expectations are, and we can tell you then whether you need a $300 bike or a $2000 bike to ride the dirt, and your budget limits will also tell us whether you'd be fine with a prodeco, or could afford a $3000-$5000 pre made ebike to do your riding. Let us know your location too, you could live in Vancouver for all we know, where Grin Cyclery is.

mastermind1234321 · Jan 3, 2015

Racer_X said:
Welcome to the forum mastermind1234321,
DIY setup depends on your mechanical skill. Can you repair a bicycle flat tire?
What is your budget?
how far do you need to go?

Otherwise a factory built ebike will be a reliable workhorse that will probably meet most of your needs and last you years.

mastermind1234321 said:

I am interested in getting a electric bike setup but am not sure if I should build my own or buy a ebike. I don't have a bike now so I would need to buy a bike along with the parts to make my own DIY setup if I went that way.

I don't care too much about going really fast, but I do want to be able to go offroad. Regardless of how I get a ebike, I want to get a mountain bike.

Click to expand...

I have fairly good mechanical skills. I am an electrical engineering student so I would rather do things myself, especially if they are cheaper(college student budget

)

My budget for the entire setup is no more then $1000. I know a lot of good mountain bikes are usually really expensive. I haven't ever owned anything better then a simple $100 walmart bike.

mastermind1234321 · Jan 3, 2015

arkmundi said:
In my opinion, building your own will be more satisfying. It only requires some intelligence, dexterity and simple tools - its within reach of almost anyone who wants to do it. By "build" we mean getting a kit and putting it on yourself. On a bike of your choice.

One thing to keep in mind is that federal consumer protection laws disallow the selling of premade eBikes with anything greater than 750 watt motors. When I did my first build, I was all too concerned and got a 500 watt motor. I was happy enough, but like most ES community members who get into it, the power was just not enough. In particular, there were hills that remained a bit tough to negotiate and it was the hills more than anything that motivated me to begin with to find an assist. I went from 500 watts to a 1000 watts on my second and current build. I can't see going back and my first build is now collecting dust.

You'll be happier in the long run, as well, by getting a bike suited in every way to yourself - you height, style of riding, going off-road, needs for "comfort", etc. Prebuilt eBikes will be vastly restricting your choices. There are lots & lots of used bikes for sale, via eBay, Craigslist and through your local bike shop and its what I generally recommend to people who want in but don't have suitable bike to start with.

There's one final reason however. By building it yourself, you'll be better able to also maintain & repair it yourself. I went car-free after a while and will never go back to owning one, because of all the associated costs & hassle of keeping a car on the road. Bikes in general, and eBikes are a must better transport option, because of all the obnoxious costs associated with owning and maintaining a car. So yea, go for it!

So if you get a kit, can you get something bigger then 750 watts? Out of curiosity, why didn't you upgrade the motor itself rather then build a new bike? And what kits can you suggest for someone with a $1000 budget?

I have begun looking at bikes on sale but am not sure what unique qualities I might need since I want to motorize my bike. Is that are issue with wear and tear on the bike due to the speed and consistency you bike at?

mastermind1234321 · Jan 3, 2015

dogman dan said:
A lot just depends on your budget and mechanical skills.

When I wanted a longtail cargo bike, welding two old bikes into one was tons cheaper than buying a surly. Is it better? In some ways yes, nobody will steal this thing. It's way to ugly and heavy. I'm working now on something lighter and less ugly, but more for the fun of it than anything. I'd say most of us on this forum DIY mostly for the fun, and partly to save a buck.

You mention off road riding, I don't know what level of riding you mean, but serious trail riding is so much better on a very good full suspension bike. Used, these will be $500 minimum, hell a really good fork alone is $500 or more.

Top of the line ready to ride ebikes off road wonderfully, such as the stealth bomber, or other mid drive bikes that are based on very good frames. But that does not mean that milder trails cannot be ridden just fine on the lower priced bikes with only a cheap front shock. It just depends on what you want out of the bike, even a very modest street commuter with a beach cruiser tire can handle a bit of dirt.

Let us know a bit more about what your needs, or expectations are, and we can tell you then whether you need a $300 bike or a $2000 bike to ride the dirt, and your budget limits will also tell us whether you'd be fine with a prodeco, or could afford a $3000-$5000 pre made ebike to do your riding. Let us know your location too, you could live in Vancouver for all we know, where Grin Cyclery is.

After making the mistake previously, I know that I really would rather pay more for a full suspension bike. My budget is about $1000 for the entire setup. At the very most I could perhaps spend $1500 though it would mean waiting quite a bit longer to save up the money. In that case I would rather get the bike first and then get the kit later on when I can afford it.

I live in Austin, Texas and go to school in San Antonio, TX so any businesses in that area I could easily go to.

Racer_X · Jan 3, 2015

mastermind1234321 said:
I have fairly good mechanical skills. I am an electrical engineering student so I would rather do things myself, especially if they are cheaper(college student budget )
My budget for the entire setup is no more then $1000. I know a lot of good mountain bikes are usually really expensive. I haven't ever owned anything better then a simple $100 walmart bike.

1. mechanical skills 2. electrical engineering student. How can you not be sure if you wanted to buy prebuilt or build your own?
It is obvious that you should build your own.

mastermind1234321 said:
So if you get a kit, can you get something bigger then 750 watts? Out of curiosity, why didn't you upgrade the motor itself rather then build a new bike? And what kits can you suggest for someone with a $1000 budget?
I have begun looking at bikes on sale but am not sure what unique qualities I might need since I want to motorize my bike. Is that are issue with wear and tear on the bike due to the speed and consistency you bike at?

With $800 you can afford a decent 1500w + hub motor kit and 72v 10ah of LiPo batteries. $200 for a bike. To get these kinds of prices you need to do your own research on this. Check out build logs and see what style and power level and budget suits you best. It is hard to recommend just one when there are many options available from 250w, 500w, 750w, 1000w, 1500w, 2000w 3000w, 6000w and higher if you like.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6
If you go with LiPo you will also have to invest in balancing charging solution to keep your lipos healthy. That is another cost that could be anywhere from $40 on up to the hundreds. Again read build logs and see how different people solve their charging needs.

mastermind1234321 said:
After making the mistake previously, I know that I really would rather pay more for a full suspension bike. My budget is about $1000 for the entire setup. At the very most I could perhaps spend $1500 though it would mean waiting quite a bit longer to save up the money. In that case I would rather get the bike first and then get the kit later on when I can afford it.
I live in Austin, Texas and go to school in San Antonio, TX so any businesses in that area I could easily go to.

Check out build logs for successful full suspension bike candidates. Some full suspension are not good candidates. It is much easier to see which bike year, model and brand is a good candidate. I guess Craigslist would be a good source for used full suspension bikes in your area?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

dogman dan · Jan 3, 2015

Now that we know, of course you MUST build your own. And now that we know your budget, you have no choice really.

Get a half decent FS bike, if you want to off road much. In the walmart junk category, the Genesis or Mongoose with the rocker type rear suspension link is the thing.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Mongoose-Ledge-2.1-Men-s-Mountain-Bike/26999421

Don't get me wrong, this bikes front shock is total junk, but because of that rocker arm, the rear will not be too bad. Look for a model with a 1 1/8 headset vs a 1" so that front shock could eventually be upgraded.

Even better, might be a used MTB with only front shocks, but a decent fork on it, especially if you won't really be riding off road the most. In forks, the cheapies have no adjustability. Better entry level forks will have preload and rebound adjustments on them, and longer travel.

There is an ES member named Veloman in Austin, who happens to be selling some used stuff. You might be able to get a bargain on a motor from him, then add a cheap controller and throttle. Look in the for sale used section here. Or just go with the affordable 1000w kit from YES.com

If you spent $200 on a bike, and $400 on a kit, you'll still have $400 for a battery and charger. That's tight, but you are on the way to being an engineer. So you can handle it to use radio control lipo batteries, or scavenge batteries to build your own. Start with 48v.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=18631

six of those would make you a nice 12s 44v pack of 10 ah. This came up hong kong dollars on my browser, but it should be less than $30 usa each.

Don't screw up with the lipo, if you do it could burn the dorm or apartment down.

scfoster · Jan 3, 2015

mastermind1234321 said:
I have fairly good mechanical skills. I am an electrical engineering student so I would rather do things myself, especially if they are cheaper(college student budget )

My budget for the entire setup is no more then $1000. I know a lot of good mountain bikes are usually really expensive. I haven't ever owned anything better then a simple $100 walmart bike.

If you're going to be a double E then you have to build your own. Nothing will make you perk up more in class than to have a problem in mind ( I really wish I hadn't slept through my 8am EE classes). Should also be able to enlist some help at school if necessary.

With your budget I would buy a used frame on craigslist or other source; the components can be moved to another frame later as funds allow. You can save a lot building your own battery pack and given the EE schooling that shouldn't be much of an issue for you. FS or hardtail decision should be made independent of the motor. Locally most of the bike sales are hard tails, given the terrain. A hardtail would be cheaper/lighter and have easier battery stowage, but may not suit your purposes. Again, pick the base bike suspension per your needs, then apply the limitations for each motor/battery/controller combination.

You should see if you can get some sort of extra credit in school for doing the project. Rebuilt reciprocating and turbine engines for a good chunk of credit and learned a lot in process. You may be able to do likewise. Never hurts to ask.

Spend a couple weeks poring through the posts on this forum. The information contained here is a treasure trove. You'll quickly pick up on who has the most experience and information to offer.

windtrader · Jan 3, 2015

mastermind1234321 said:
I am interested in getting a electric bike setup but am not sure if I should build my own or buy a ebike. I don't have a bike now so I would need to buy a bike along with the parts to make my own DIY setup if I went that way.

I don't care too much about going really fast, but I do want to be able to go offroad. Regardless of how I get a ebike, I want to get a mountain bike.

You did not mention your timeframe, reliability, durability, or other requirements and constraints.

Given your academic interest you would have a great time going DIY. Budget varies depending on time. The more time you have to shop the better deals you can get.

I think $200 for a bike will buy something pretty basic such as a single speed cruiser in solid condition;certainly, not a FS or hardtail in good riding condition. Maybe your local market is kinder but in general you are going to have to look pretty hard to get a solid bike for $200.

A rear hub kit like the YesCommUSA is a great buy and gets you rolling for about $300. The battery pack you can build yourself using HobbyKing LiPo.

Your total budget of $1000-$1500 should get you going just fine. Just take your time and research and buy components that are solid and as swappable as possible. Good luck.

mastermind1234321 · Jan 5, 2015

dogman dan said:
Now that we know, of course you MUST build your own. And now that we know your budget, you have no choice really.

Get a half decent FS bike, if you want to off road much. In the walmart junk category, the Genesis or Mongoose with the rocker type rear suspension link is the thing.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/26-Mongoose-Ledge-2.1-Men-s-Mountain-Bike/26999421

Don't get me wrong, this bikes front shock is total junk, but because of that rocker arm, the rear will not be too bad. Look for a model with a 1 1/8 headset vs a 1" so that front shock could eventually be upgraded.

Even better, might be a used MTB with only front shocks, but a decent fork on it, especially if you won't really be riding off road the most. In forks, the cheapies have no adjustability. Better entry level forks will have preload and rebound adjustments on them, and longer travel.

There is an ES member named Veloman in Austin, who happens to be selling some used stuff. You might be able to get a bargain on a motor from him, then add a cheap controller and throttle. Look in the for sale used section here. Or just go with the affordable 1000w kit from YES.com

If you spent $200 on a bike, and $400 on a kit, you'll still have $400 for a battery and charger. That's tight, but you are on the way to being an engineer. So you can handle it to use radio control lipo batteries, or scavenge batteries to build your own. Start with 48v.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=18631

six of those would make you a nice 12s 44v pack of 10 ah. This came up hong kong dollars on my browser, but it should be less than $30 usa each.

Don't screw up with the lipo, if you do it could burn the dorm or apartment down.

What is YES.com? I looked it up and the website is no longer there. Do you have another website I can shop for kits?

mastermind1234321 · Jan 5, 2015

scfoster said:
mastermind1234321 said:

I have fairly good mechanical skills. I am an electrical engineering student so I would rather do things myself, especially if they are cheaper(college student budget )

My budget for the entire setup is no more then $1000. I know a lot of good mountain bikes are usually really expensive. I haven't ever owned anything better then a simple $100 walmart bike.

Click to expand...

If you're going to be a double E then you have to build your own. Nothing will make you perk up more in class than to have a problem in mind ( I really wish I hadn't slept through my 8am EE classes). Should also be able to enlist some help at school if necessary.

With your budget I would buy a used frame on craigslist or other source; the components can be moved to another frame later as funds allow. You can save a lot building your own battery pack and given the EE schooling that shouldn't be much of an issue for you. FS or hardtail decision should be made independent of the motor. Locally most of the bike sales are hard tails, given the terrain. A hardtail would be cheaper/lighter and have easier battery stowage, but may not suit your purposes. Again, pick the base bike suspension per your needs, then apply the limitations for each motor/battery/controller combination.

You should see if you can get some sort of extra credit in school for doing the project. Rebuilt reciprocating and turbine engines for a good chunk of credit and learned a lot in process. You may be able to do likewise. Never hurts to ask.

Spend a couple weeks poring through the posts on this forum. The information contained here is a treasure trove. You'll quickly pick up on who has the most experience and information to offer.

Are either of these good ideas? The first one is a dual suspension.
1. http://austin.craigslist.org/bid/4817516697.html
2. http://austin.craigslist.org/bik/4828171163.html

mastermind1234321 · Jan 5, 2015

windtrader said:
mastermind1234321 said:

I am interested in getting a electric bike setup but am not sure if I should build my own or buy a ebike. I don't have a bike now so I would need to buy a bike along with the parts to make my own DIY setup if I went that way.

I don't care too much about going really fast, but I do want to be able to go offroad. Regardless of how I get a ebike, I want to get a mountain bike.

Click to expand...

You did not mention your timeframe, reliability, durability, or other requirements and constraints.

Given your academic interest you would have a great time going DIY. Budget varies depending on time. The more time you have to shop the better deals you can get.

I think $200 for a bike will buy something pretty basic such as a single speed cruiser in solid condition;certainly, not a FS or hardtail in good riding condition. Maybe your local market is kinder but in general you are going to have to look pretty hard to get a solid bike for $200.

A rear hub kit like the YesCommUSA is a great buy and gets you rolling for about $300. The battery pack you can build yourself using HobbyKing LiPo.

Your total budget of $1000-$1500 should get you going just fine. Just take your time and research and buy components that are solid and as swappable as possible. Good luck.

Are there setups that allow me to also add resistance to the bike to recharge the battery? I know lipo batteries are super sensitive but does a recharging systme on board exist?

wesnewell · Jan 5, 2015

Welcome to ES****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)*****
Please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. Once done, your location will appear in every post so you won't have people asking where you are ever again. This will help people help you. Example: Wylie, TX, USA. or just USA, but country as a minimum, and country is the most important. There are many cities with the same name all over the world. Without knowing what country you are in it's hard to make any recommendations. Thank you.

Racer_X · Jan 5, 2015

mastermind1234321 said:
Are there setups that allow me to also add resistance to the bike to recharge the battery? I know lipo batteries are super sensitive but does a recharging systme on board exist?

You like to study? Your answers are in the build logs
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=6

dogman dan · Jan 5, 2015

Yes was one outfit selling a 48v 1000w kit under $300. If they are gone, look for others on ebay, and buy from one that is in your country. Faster shipping than from China.

Racer_X · Jan 5, 2015

Both those bikes will work, heck just about any bike will work.
Personally, I would either invest in a brand new bike from walmart or invest in a bike of a bit higher quality, maybe spend 300-400usd.
A classic here in the ES sphere is the Genesis V2100 which you can get from walmart and has the options of later upgrading the rear swingarm once called Farfle Swingarm. Google it you will see. Now the swing arm is being manufactured by another member but his name slips my memory. Again Search and Thee shall Find.
26" Genesis V2100 Men's Mountain Bike with Full Suspension 129usd
http://www.walmart.com/ip/16685814?productRedirect=true

mastermind1234321 said:
Are either of these good ideas? The first one is a dual suspension.
1. http://austin.craigslist.org/bid/4817516697.html
2. http://austin.craigslist.org/bik/4828171163.html

crea2k · Jan 5, 2015

If its only $1000 for everything that rules out the mega powerful stuff, but if you get yourself a second hand full suspension bike, then buy a Bafang bbs02 750watt kit, a few 6s lipo packs from hobbyking and a balance charger you should be good to go. You can get a battery bottle or one of the other packs, but for the money the lipo packs would probably be cheaper, plus if they go wrong you just buy another one, as they not exactly expensive.

Paderolis · Jan 5, 2015

dogman dan said:
Yes was one outfit selling a 48v 1000w kit under $300. If they are gone, look for others on ebay, and buy from one that is in your country. Faster shipping than from China.

Here is the link to the link to the kit I bought... http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-LCD-Display-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Conversion-/371225425795?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item566ec27783

I am really enjoying it!

Eclectic · Jan 5, 2015

“xcceries” is the eBay name for Yescomusa.com. Their prices seem to be a little bit better on eBay than they are on their Yescomusa site. My experience with their motors has been good so far and I haven’t seen anything too negative about them here. Be aware that they sell everything from tattoo machines to grow lights so don’t expect a lot of knowledge or support.

crea2k · Jan 6, 2015

Im not sure how well a low power hub motor will cope offroad, I have a cro on mine and it works just fine but its like 6000W , hub motors are fine offroad as long as you put on a nice chunky tyre and half decent shock, otherwise the weight of the thing smashing into your rim will probably destroy the spokes / rim / motor, thats why I run 3" tyre on the back of mine. If you have many hills in your offroad area you really want a mid drive. A budget mid drive will cope off road way better than a budget hub motor. Im not saying hub motors are no good offroad, as I have one , but I think a budget hub motor will probably cook in no time if thrashed off road. Iv also got a cheap bafang bbs2 on another bike and it is fine offroad too, it costs 6x less than my cro bike I built.

arkmundi · Jan 6, 2015

Which begs an answer to the question of how someone on a tight budget can get into it. If I were, as I once was, a student trying to make ends meet, I'd take a piecemeal approach. I'd cheap out on everything but the hub wheel. Once made, a good wheel can last a very long time and be moved from one bicycle to another. On that basis, my investment would go into a decent hub motor, and the rim, spokes & tires. Then I'd put that wheel initially on a cheapo bike, like can be had in a Walmart 26" Genesis for $129. Then add-in a minimalist battery that can be slowly upgraded over time, making the battery myself from the raw cells (for cost savings, as well as control over the pack construction). So...

about $500 for a MAC kit from EM3ev on an Alexrim with Sapim spokes
$200 for a bicycle from Walmart or Craigslist
$300 for a basic 36V 10ah battery make

Then when I could afford it, I'd upgrade that battery to a 48V 15ah battery. Lastly, when I could, I'd ditch my bike entry and get something better able to handle the road/trails.

ecycler · Jan 6, 2015

If you are living in a dorm, then LiPo is a TERRIBLE idea! Please make sure you understand the risks and have a safe place to charge/store the battery. This ebike community does not want the death of many college students and a burned down dorm on its hands.

wesnewell · Jan 6, 2015

I'd advise against the Genesis Bike simply because of the aluminum dropouts. If you want a FS bike then the Mongoose and even the Havoc have steel swingarms and dropouts as do many other cheap FS bikes. I would never buy a bike with aluminum dropouts unless planning to use some good torque plates bolted to the dropouts on it. And there are millions of hobbiest that use rc lipo safely. That's all I've ever used for the last 4 years except the first couple of weeks with sla. Charge it properly and it shouldn't be a problem.

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