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Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 06 2019 3:20pm
by madin88
Merlin wrote:
Nov 06 2019 1:12pm
latest lmx have no nucular anymore.

12T vs 14T is very little in noise diff. someone who is not riding the bike "daily" will not hear a difference.
Iam not a noise engineer but maybe 14T comes only subjective less noisy because it spins less for same speed.

On Higher Speeds Wind noise comes also in Play....very Hard to say whats a real World difference.
Why they do not have Nucular anymore?

Regarding sprockets it needs something like 20T or more and a less RPM / higher torque motor to make it noticeable less noisy.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 07 2019 1:49am
by bzhwindtalker
We tested both configs in EMC. Both were Ok, as usual problems in EMC emissions come from the led lights drivers.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 07 2019 4:18am
by Cowardlyduck
Merlin wrote:
Nov 06 2019 5:54am
Lmx is selling sprockets with o-rings... But one isn't enough... After one battery cycle it's toast.

What really works is 2 rings. One each side.
Thanks for reminding me...I had forgotten about these. Just ordered one.
https://lmxbikes.com/en/drivetrain/203- ... ocket.html

I might experiment with 3D printing a thin ring to sit under the other side without an o-ring. Maybe that will be enough without having to machine it and it can easily be replaced frequently if needed.

Cheers

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 07 2019 4:39am
by Cheburator
Cowardlyduck wrote:
Nov 07 2019 4:18am
I had forgotten about these. Just ordered one.
https://lmxbikes.com/en/drivetrain/203- ... ocket.html
I have 12T "low noise" sprocket, not low at all. I hope you will succeed in making it work.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 14 2019 4:39am
by bzhwindtalker
Here is something we have been thinking/ testing, what doit you think about it? Goal is to hide the battery and protect from mud and water.

I can send the 3d file by e-mail for those interested to try it and print one!

Then for serial we would have to get a mold done for that part to get it injection molded... Costs are quite high for that.

Adam

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 14 2019 6:30am
by Cowardlyduck
Like that a lot! Thanks for sharing Adam!

I'll definitely be up for attempting to 3D print it...assuming I can do it in a few sections as my printer isn't that big.

Can you just attach the STL here? Otherwise I'll PM you my email.

If there are any other 3D printed parts for these bikes I would also appreciate having them.

Although it didn't work out, here is the sprocket cover I made to try and make it quiet.
LMX64 - Sproket cover.zip
(40.77 KiB) Downloaded 54 times
If anyone wants to try and modify it to make it work better feel free, but I don't know how much can realistically be done.

Cheers

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 14 2019 7:06pm
by Joe King1
Adam

For low volume production you could vacuum form it in ABS plastic using a much cheaper mold. You could also make it in 2 or 3 layers of carbon fiber so it could be flexible.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 15 2019 3:31am
by bzhwindtalker
Joe King1 wrote:
Nov 14 2019 7:06pm
Adam

For low volume production you could vacuum form it in ABS plastic using a much cheaper mold. You could also make it in 2 or 3 layers of carbon fiber so it could be flexible.
yes, but we would like to integrate some sort of lip to make a good fit between frame and cover and keep mud out.

We have a small vacuum forming setup in house so we can try to make a prototype to see how it would look with this technique.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 15 2019 9:35am
by Joe King1
Take a look at how Moustashe does theirs.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 15 2019 12:50pm
by Grantmac
If you are going to build a new battery cover is it that much more work to go for a better integration allowing more capacity? Removal to the side or bottom would permit a much larger pack for instance.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 18 2019 6:32am
by Cowardlyduck
Update on my LMX64 sound reduction efforts:


I think I will just ride with it like this for a while and see if I can get used to it. It's certainly better than it was.

I would still like to try more sound reduction at some point, but not sure what could be done yet.

Cheers

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 18 2019 5:30pm
by Dirty-Kurty
I need your help. Today i rode my lmx in the rain and the Display just began to turn off :( . I think some water came Into it but I thought it is no Problem for it? I dryed it it on the heating but it still just shows the background light without textures... what can I do except of buying a new one? Thanks for help :!:

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 19 2019 7:05am
by bzhwindtalker
Hello, Do the motor still work? just the display is blank?
When we had water issues on the controller, it caused the display to turn on and off.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 19 2019 8:29am
by SlowCo
Cowardlyduck wrote:
Nov 18 2019 6:32am
I think I will just ride with it like this for a while and see if I can get used to it. It's certainly better than it was.

I would still like to try more sound reduction at some point, but not sure what could be done yet.

Cheers
I think a completely closed, thick and fully covering plastic (3d printed?) housing using all three bolts and maybe even coated with soft/rubber material on the in and outside would help alot! Like the red aluminum plate open cover as in the photo's above but completely closed:
LMX 64.png
LMX 64.png (486.24 KiB) Viewed 3224 times

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 20 2019 4:35am
by Cowardlyduck
SlowCo wrote:
Nov 19 2019 8:29am
I think a completely closed, thick and fully covering plastic (3d printed?) housing using all three bolts and maybe even coated with soft/rubber material on the in and outside would help alot! Like the red aluminum plate open cover as in the photo's above but completely closed:
I don't think so.
I've pretty much done this already and it made no difference.

If this was going to work at all I would have expected my attempts so far would show at least some improvement however minuscule, but I see zero change when testing.

The one thing I think it does do is help with is to deflect the sound slightly and away from the rider. I can't really test this, but that's my only observation which is why I'm keeping it on there.

The main problem is no matter how thick you make it, you still have to have a large opening for the chain which lets most of the sound out.
One idea I had was to add rubber flaps around the chain which might help...I might still do this and see if it helps.

Cheers

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 21 2019 8:20am
by hkj
Not sure but you guys probably thought about this already but I believe one of the main reasons this motor setup is so noisy is because we have large amounts of vibrations going into the frame (from the sprocket and chain) in the box like structure that holds the motor and battery.
I haven't removed any components but I believe if there's some space left, adding thin sticky rubber mats against the inside of the frame "box" part would greatly reduce the noise produced by the drive train. Kinda like sound proofing a room. What do you think?
Perhaps it's also possible to mount the engine against the frame with some thicker rubber gaskets (if any are used today)
Common thing to do on motorcycles.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 21 2019 10:42am
by bzhwindtalker
Just want to let you guys know we started tests on a 8M pitch belt drive solution, but that first tests are not super promising as far as max torque handling goes. More/better results early next week hopefully. Noise is perfect though. 100% backward compatible.
Adam

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 22 2019 4:10am
by Cowardlyduck
bzhwindtalker wrote:
Nov 21 2019 10:42am
Just want to let you guys know we started tests on a 8M pitch belt drive solution, but that first tests are not super promising as far as max torque handling goes. More/better results early next week hopefully. Noise is perfect though. 100% backward compatible.
Adam
This is amazing news. Thanks for letting us know.

I am super keen to have something like this and if it's backwards compatible that is amazing.

I would like to request that the cost for existing customers is minimal though as we've all spent quite a lot already to get these bikes and this is the one thing we all don't like.

Cheers

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 22 2019 9:30am
by Cheburator
Cowardlyduck wrote:
Nov 22 2019 4:10am
I would like to request that the cost for existing customers is minimal though as we've all spent quite a lot already to get these bikes and this is the one thing we all don't like.
Agree. Especially considering the promise that with those "low noise" sprockets "the noise is comparable to a geared hub motor or mid drive emtb drive at comparable speed" (c)

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 22 2019 10:39am
by bzhwindtalker
At low RPM it is really not that noisy with the chain. Above 20-25kph it starts to be much noisier than some other
systems. Unfortunetely some of the 12t low noise sprokets had à groove for the oring that ended up being too deep so the damping effect was lower than what we had on our test bikes. Sorry if it was disapointing in that regard.

Regarding the belt solution, we need to make more tests before we can sell those even at beta tests. Rigth now there is 4 hours of machining to make one kit, and we doit not know how much torque it can really handle.
The main issue is the tension that need to be very high.

Adam

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 22 2019 12:49pm
by E-geezer
hkj wrote:
Nov 21 2019 8:20am
Not sure but you guys probably thought about this already but I believe one of the main reasons this motor setup is so noisy is because we have large amounts of vibrations going into the frame (from the sprocket and chain) in the box like structure that holds the motor and battery.
I haven't removed any components but I believe if there's some space left, adding thin sticky rubber mats against the inside of the frame "box" part would greatly reduce the noise produced by the drive train. Kinda like sound proofing a room. What do you think?
Perhaps it's also possible to mount the engine against the frame with some thicker rubber gaskets (if any are used today)
Common thing to do on motorcycles.
You could use Dynamat. It reduces vibrations dramatically so would reduce the noise produced by the enclosure.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 22 2019 1:52pm
by SlowCo
Another possibility to lower the noise could be a bigger front and rear sprocket/chainwheel. But I suspect that it would result in a very large rear (not off the shelve) sprocket/chainwheel when the front gets 3 or more teeth extra.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 23 2019 12:43am
by Cowardlyduck
E-geezer wrote:
Nov 22 2019 12:49pm
You could use Dynamat. It reduces vibrations dramatically so would reduce the noise produced by the enclosure.
Check back a few pages...I already tried this with no change.
It might make a small difference between the motor/frame, but I doubt it would do much.

Cheers

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 23 2019 9:29am
by madin88
bzhwindtalker wrote:
Nov 22 2019 10:39am
Regarding the belt solution, we need to make more tests before we can sell those even at beta tests. Rigth now there is 4 hours of machining to make one kit, and we doit not know how much torque it can really handle.
The main issue is the tension that need to be very high.

Adam
I am trying to understand how a belt drive could be done on a bike which has the motor shaft and swingarm pivot not in the same center :?:
Belt's can handle alot of torque, but the pulleys need to be large in diameter, way larger as chain sprockets.
There is a program which calculates torque and power a given setup could handle (to be within specs) and how much it should be tensioned (which is very important). If you have any questions i would be willing to offer help.

Re: E-S LMX 64 Bike Owners

Posted: Nov 23 2019 10:50pm
by briangv99
madin88 wrote:
Nov 23 2019 9:29am
I am trying to understand how a belt drive could be done on a bike which has the motor shaft and swingarm pivot not in the same center
Maybe with an extremely stout tensioner
EBOXX_2019_Gates_Carbon_Drive_01-e1549315273199.jpg
EBOXX_2019_Gates_Carbon_Drive_01-e1549315273199.jpg (191.8 KiB) Viewed 2963 times