CUTE geared hub motors from bmsbattery/ecitypower

Russell

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Nov 22, 2008
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State of Wisconsin, USA
I saw these little motors this afternoon and since then they added even more with sizes as tiny as 108mm in diameter with weights of 1.6Kg up to 128mm in diameter and 3Kg with power ratings from 120W to 500W. I emailed them for more specific information such as dimensional drawings and performance graphs but they only sent me a price list and referrred me to their site. Still they are new offerings so maybe they will add info later on.

See the full selection here;


http://www.ecitypower.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=5&Itemid=2

http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php?cPath=37


Who will be the first to try these little cuties? I'd like to see dual cute motor packages run by a single controller 8)

-R
 
wow lol... I thought you called them Cute just because they were small :p

How would you run 2 motor off the same controller? I guess if it was a sensor-less controller you would be fine. I thought that if you used the halls from one motor then the other would be firing all over the place if one of the wheels lost traction. (presuming you connected the halls)

These motors look great for a stealth setup although most of the people I talk to don't even realize I have a motor...lol (9C 9x7) I think it's a combination of people never seeing an electric drive before and people presuming it is some fancy brake. 9/10 of the people I talk to ask where I got the "black thing" for my wheel...lol... they just don't know what to make of it until it turn the throttle... then their eyes light up and most ask if they can try :)

In fact, some of the drum brakes for bikes are as large as these "cuties"
 
Heh, cute. They cry out "stealth".
 
Russell said:
Who will be the first to try these little cuties? I'd like to see dual cute motor packages run by a single controller 8)
Had I not already sprung for a GM mini, I'd be whipping out the plastic. Still unlaced, the 'mini' sits on my bench in pieces, awaiting a stub shaft for single sided mounting. If all goes as planned, I'll pair this little guy with another and bolt them on the rear of a delta trike. No comment on the 'single' controller for both... yet :idea:

With the frame still in the jig and parts strewn all over the floor, it's a safe bet it won't see asphalt 'till spring.

Russ, Any word on who is manufacturing the 'Cuties'... and where?
 
They are cute little buggers eh? Three and a half pounds is pretty light for even a 250 watt motor. I think one of those and some RC packs could make a kick ass setup for those that want to pedal, but just need a boost up a few hills. 3.5 pounds of motor, mabye 1.5 more of wire and controller, 5 pounds of lipoly,,,.

Put that all on a nice roadbike and the whole thing might still come in under 30 pounds. My commuter weighs 80-95 pounds depending on how much water I carry.

I am still intriged by the idea of a dual gearmotor full suspension dirtbike, but I'd want dual controllers, batteries, and throttles, for total controll over which wheel grabs when. Trials type riding at 1-3 mph would be the idea. Stock gearmotors may be geared too high for this though. Range of 1 mile would be fine with tiny lipoly batteries, have a snack, and quick charge the batteries while the motors cool.
 
Those are my kind of motors! I would love to see the gears an determine if they have beefed them up over the Bafang. The Fusin seems to have beefier gears and the BMC are now some composite instead of straight nylon. They are cute!
otherDoc
 
I just saw the price list and I have to agree with another poster in another thread that getting a John Rob Holmes laced wheel in this country seems to be a much better bet. By the time you pay postage, get the right rim and spokes, lace and true the wheel it really is no bargain anymore!
otherDoc
 
I'm pretty much certain they are Ananda geared hub motors. I've been using a 36V 250W in a front wheel. I know a fair bit about them
 
Hi linchy! Do you have any photos of the insides of these motors?
otherDoc
 
no sorry, the side panel is very well bonded on. will have to get a bit inventive to try and get it off. they're not as light as that. abt 2.7kg for a front with 108mm diameter between spokes. it's quite a wide motor and will not fit in every set of forks. also do a disk version front and rear which i've got but haven't tested yet
 
yeah - bring on the photos!

They do indeed look like Ananda motors - see http://www.ananda.com.cn/anandaenglish/product_list.asp?id=321 and similar link for the larger motor.

Some observations:

1. It seems that they have bolt on side plates rather than those annoying screw on type (?)
2. (note for Russell) The cables look like they may exit the non-drive side on the rear motor?
3. The prices get cheaper as they get more powerful?
4. wow these things are light
 
yep, cables exit from the non drive side. can send some pics of the various types and a front fitted in a wheel. just forward an email address by pm. they come with different gearing depending upon the wheel size to adjust max rpm. haven't been able to get an answer as to how many options there are with regards to gears and what ratios are available but they are intended for 20 to 700c rim as far as i know with EU speed limit of approx 15mph
 
i'm in the process of putting together some ebikes for retail in europe and checking what i want to be selling as kits in the future. not interested in selling junk that i don't know nothing about. i live in shanghai, so that makes things a bit easier for sourcing parts.
 
DerekG said:
How would you run 2 motor off the same controller? I guess if it was a sensor-less controller you would be fine. I thought that if you used the halls from one motor then the other would be firing all over the place if one of the wheels lost traction. (presuming you connected the halls)

The controller of course has to be designed for two motors. Crystalyte offers such a controller but it's pretty expensive;

http://us.itselectric.ca/Crystalyte_Dual_Motor_controller_p/ctrl-crystal-c7220dm.htm

These guys also appear to build one and it should be a good deal cheaper (See brochure lower right).

http://www.lsdzs.com/e/newsshow.asp?newsid=79

It wouldn't be a big deal however to use two small controllers.

-R
 
marshy said:
yeah - bring on the photos!

They do indeed look like Ananda motors - see http://www.ananda.com.cn/anandaenglish/product_list.asp?id=321 and similar link for the larger motor.

Some observations:

1. It seems that they have bolt on side plates rather than those annoying screw on type (?)
2. (note for Russell) The cables look like they may exit the non-drive side on the rear motor?
3. The prices get cheaper as they get more powerful?
4. wow these things are light

Indeed they do. I believe I'll pick up a rear motor if I can find out the RPM numbers for the various models.

-R
 
as far as i know the no load rpm ranges between just over 200rpm and about 290rpm for both 24 and 36V models. i was told there is a 9:1 gear ratio but not sure which of the ratios that applies to. they only use 2 windings, a 24 and a 36V, so i assume they use 2 to 3 gear ratios. i've used a 36V 26" rim type at 48V for a few days and it held up fine but did get a bit hot, don't know how suited it is to overvoltage but it definitely improved the pickup. not yet used the 24V motor but have some here to test soon.

they also do a very neat little controller. good luck trying to find out detailed information though. i've been in direct contact with the factory for months and getting info out of them is like pulling teeth.
 
and by the way, be careful when ordering a rear motor. mine arrived with an axle for dropouts of 155mm spacing. so make sure to specify exactly what is required.
 
lynchy said:
i'm in the process of putting together some ebikes for retail in europe and checking what i want to be selling as kits in the future. not interested in selling junk that i don't know nothing about. i live in shanghai, so that makes things a bit easier for sourcing parts.

excellent. Well, I'm sure you have a keen team of independent testers here.

Just wondering if you've tested any Bafangs, and if so drawn any comparisons, e.g. on noise levels, performance, even quality of gears?
 
i'm awaiting some bafangs at the moment but have briefly tried 1. the bafangs are quieter, well at least the model that i used. at the EU legal limit the performance on the flat was pretty much the same. i've also used another geared hub motor, very similar in size to the Ananda and it had pretty much exactly the same level/type of noise and performance.

not so loud but is audible on acceleration. my feeling is that the noise is unavoidable due to the gears becoming so small and the cogs have to retain a certain depth for strength. the bafang is small but not as small as these. they are very wide so the standard type is not suited to disk and will not fit in all forks. i've just been supplied a 24V front motor with disk fittings that is narrower, but i've got a feeling it might be lower powered. still got lots of work and testing to do in the next few months/years....

i'd be happy to get some independent testers onboard but it'll be a couple of months before there'll be something to see. happy to show stuff as it progresses if it doesn't cause any problems. i've also been thinking about dual motors, maybe overvoltage too, but more of a plaything for myself than to sell as EU law is very restrictive. i'm also very keen to hear what people feel they want in an e bike.
 
lynchy said:
as far as i know the no load rpm ranges between just over 200rpm and about 290rpm for both 24 and 36V models.

I would need to have that narrowed down a bit before I would buy one. For example my 36V 250W Bafang QSWXB runs at 6.4 rpm/V or 230 rpm at a nominal 36V and my 24V 250W GoldenMotor Mini (looks like a Bafang QSWXH) runs at 9.1 rpm/V or 218 rpm at a nominal 24V.

I emailed ecitypower again requesting the information :|

-R
 
I would also be interested in the specifications on the cute motors... which gearings are they available at or which RPM at 24 or 36v are they available for... final kV for the models no-load/load would also be useful. Ive tried to get this info but they are vague... perhaps since you have already ordered a bunch they will be more accomidating for your requests.

Never did get to order that "Puma" motor for testing... they changed stock before I could, these new ones look interesting (maybe) especially for the price. Depending on the current they can handle a pair of HV85's could likely run 2 of them sensorless, so 2 of the 500w rated (1 front, 1 rear) would be useful... though after looking at others dual hub experience, it seems that lowering the front power helps alot with traction when you don't have a variable control system. This could be useful!

There look to be issues tying 2 infineon style controllers to 2 motors and using the same power source, I am about to head down this road with dual 9c on the specialized but I am ready to run dual power sources if needed.

Anxiously awaiting some more info... my intened first build would be a single or dual motor caynne rambler (after a repaint, hate the oxblood) folding bike, 20" though I am beginning to look at 16" bikes, I had a nice ride the other day on one... I need to be able to sustain 20mph so 20 * 336 / 20 = 336 RPM minimum under load (if for 36v then that would be for LVC of 32v - lipo 3.2v) so actual nominal RPM required under load would be: 10.5 kV or RPM per volt capable of 36v nominal.

Thanks!

Mike
 
Unless someone has seen the innards first-hand, I'm skeptical they'd opt for different gearing within a specified housing diameter. They'd not only need to manufacture different sun and planet gears, but also alter the planet's shaft locations - which on the GM Mini, is also the one-way clutch.
 
Drunkskunk said:
Well Ain't those Cute.

So anyone know the diameter of these yet?
I might have to pick one up. I was already considering one of there 36V lifePO4 just to experiment with.

The babies are 108mm and the "big" ones are 128mm according to the bmsbattery/ecitypower sites (1.6-3Kg). Doing a quick check on my QSWXB Bafang (3.2Kg) gives 143mm and my GM Mini (2.6Kg) is about 134mm in diameter.

-R
 
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