New York State

E bike are definitely illegal in NY state
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/dmvfaqs.htm#motor
As such this is the letter I wrote to my state senator and governor. There is a bill to define and legalize E bikes "A 189"
This bill could be dead by now

If you live in NY please write your state Senator and governor

Mr. Hannon

I want to state my support for:
A189 Gantt
Vehicle and Traffic Law
TITLE....Defines the term electric assisted bicycle

In these times of gas prices being so high and the dangers of global
warming I have been looking into alternate means of transportation to my
job.

Being an Engineer for a medical equipment manufacturer who wears a dress
shirt and tie every day I wanted a way to substantially reduce my use of
gasoline and still arrive at work in a reasonable amount of time and be
sweat free.

Living on Long Island (Levittown) Meant that taking a bus would take
over an hour to get to my job in Meville. I often work late making
taking a bus even more difficult.

I could use a Motorcycle but didn't want another vehicle to maintain,
insure and the dangers of a motorcycle on Long Island were to great for
my family.

I am a serious recreational cyclist and taking a bicycle to work
appealed to me as a very low impact (on the planet) way to get to work.
The problem was that I needed to get to work in a reasonable amount of
time and arrive sweat free, those terms are contradictory when talking
about bicycle travel.

Then I discovered E bikes (electrically assisted bicycle) I purchased a
kit that met the Federal guidelines for a E bike, in brief I put
together a E bike that stayed below 20 MPH and had a Wheel Hub motor of
less than 750 watts and of course I always wear a helmet.

With my E bike I can travel the 9.2 miles to work in about 30 minutes
arrive completely sweat free and get the equivalent of about 300 MPG.
This has reduced my weekly gas consumption to less than half depending
on the weather. (I still take my car if its going to rain)

To my total surprise, I learned what I am doing is illegal and that E
bikes of any kind are banned from the roads of New York state.

This has to change and I implore you support Bill A189 and help it pass
the senate.

In these times of global warming the E bike is a great way to get
ordinary people who aren't in great physical shape to travel by bicycle.
The E bike flattens hills and makes a distance of 10 miles seem like 2.

Ten million E bikes have been sold in China and the E bike industry is a
high tech industry in China where a great amount of research and
development is taking place. The E bike industry in China is advancing
battery technology for Ultra light weight Electric vehicles because of
consumer demand.

I want to thank you for taking the time to read this and again ask you
to support Bill A189

My understanding of the NY situation based on what various people have posted is that everytime a push has been made to make ebikes legal there in some form, the bill ends up stalling in committee & dies. It's not clear why that continues to happen, but it seems someone on this committee is deliberately stalling the legislation so that it dies of it's own accord. I'm not sure of that because I don't know how these committee's operate & as I say, nobody has provided details of what the hangup is.

But basically my question, is the governor or senator the right person to appeal to? I don't know for sure, but don't these committees operate rather independatly & political leadership has no direct control over them? At best they may have some input, basically go hat in hand & make a recommendation or a deal behind the scenes.

I not trying to discourage anyone from writing a letter. Just suggesting that perhaps if effort is focused on identifying this person or whatever the stumbling block is, it might break the log-jam sooner. There has been sufficient grass-root support to initiate a bill several times now & perhaps some precision bombing is required to further the process along. Otherwise it seems like you're just banging your head against a wall doing the same thing over again.

New York is a large market for ebikes, potentially second only to Calif. Making them legal there has a no-so-indirect impact on myself & others thousands of miles away. It would improve the price & availabilty of ebike offerings benefiting from a larger user base. I hope your letter has the desired effect & wish you best of luck.

Ah well global warming and the melting of the ice caps, should put NY under water. So no worrys there after that. Serves them right too.

^ :lol: ^

Governments killing their own citizens with shear stupidity, if not wantonly, is nothing new. The generations of people alive since the H-bomb are the first to worry governments will actually succeed in killing everybody. Along the lines of your thought, at least that'd take care of lousy government (until the cockroaches leftover evolve to our level of technological sophistication).

newbie electric rider said:

Ah well global warming and the melting of the ice caps, should put NY under water. So no worrys there after that. Serves them right too.

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Problem is I live in NY and that's just going to suck, unless I get water front property. Value goes up sell and get the hell out of here. Boy would I like to go out west, Seattle or Portland.

I love living in NY. And those semi-ambiguous e-biking laws don't bother me either. I've biked across many parts of the state this summer, and nary a peep from anyone. That also includes parts of LI. I had the police look me up and down once. But then I started furiously peddling, and they sped off ahead of me. New Yorkers are a tough bunch, yet they probably don't even have a clue as to what I'm driving. For all I know, they probably think I'm Superman or Flash Gordon on wheels.

Yes its true the cops don't have a clue and have left me alone. The thing is your at there whim when the E bike is technically outlawed. The real problem is if I get into a accident using a non allowed vehicle, I will be presented as being in the wrong just for using the E bike with the facts of the accident becoming irrelevant, this is my biggest worry.

Also one stupid kid on a E bike doing something dangerous that causes a accident, that makes the news; then watch the police change there attitude.

Long term it's going to be a huge problem and leaving it to a wait and see attitude, apathy will only make it worse latter.

You give the police FAR too much credit for knowing the law off the cuff. They have more important things about which to worry. As long as you obey traffic laws, and drive reasonably safe, and do nothing to allow yourself to stand out too much. For instance, I very RARELY take main thoroughfares, only side and back roads. You're not going to see me tailing cars up-and-down Northern Blvd for instance, or even Great Neck road. And if do you see the police, back WAY off of the throttle. My brother-in-law is a NYC police officer, and we've spoken a little about e-bikes.

I even have a friend from China who knows nothing about e-bikes, and he's a SUPER avid cyclist. Although, he went from being truly cynical, to taking a ride on my e-bike and being very enthusiastic, to the point of wanting one. It's actually only been the last four or five years where e-bikes have started to propagate the landscape in China, and haven't truly begun to catch on in the US yet.

Like you said, the real problem enters when e-bikes potentially increase in popularity, and people start to abuse the system. Basically those people who would treat their e-bikes like a motorcycle with free range of the city sidewalks at 25+ speeds. That's just wrong, and plain foolish. And as you also said, safety is the key here. This is also my biggest concern. As stoopid as it looks I wear a helmet. I also have a mirror, bright head and tail lights. You can never be too safe. Enjoy.

Like you said, the real problem enters when e-bikes potentially increase in popularity, and people start to abuse the system. Basically those people who would treat their e-bikes like a motorcycle with free range of the city sidewalks at 25+ speeds.

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Exactly. Then we all suffer because of the continuing, uncorrected actions of inadequately-parented children, and a minority of adults. Enjoy the honeymoon; and avoid having a serious accident in NY, since the blame may well fall on the ebiker no matter the other facts of the accident.

I'm from NYC also. New york is also home to one of the few electric-bike only retail stores, Nycewheels.com. They have no problems giving bikes to people for demo rides. They told me they know of no instance of e-bikes being pulled over. Many pedicabs also have electric assist and drive on the streets all day long. Seems they're ok.

On the other hand NYPD knows motorcyle laws pretty well. Check scooter boards and you'll see that they constantly and fiercly enforce scooter laws (license, registration, insurance, helmet). So I guess they don't harass ebikers by choice, not from ignorance.

But if you look at the rules, requirements are not that unreasonable. Federal or EU rule allwos e-bikes up to 20mph. But that's not an ebike I want. I can pedal faster than 20mph (not for long ). And the rules NY has for up to 30mph mopeds (useful speed in the city, faster than most trafic) are very sensible. They are:
- Helmet with eye protection (useful, bug in your eye at 30mph is very bad)
- Front and rear lights on at all times. Stop and turn lights. Good even for bicycles, but impossible. For e-bikes it's a good idea anyway. Cars not seeing motorcyles/bicycles is by far the major cause of accidents.
- Insurance. Accidents happen. Hit a pedestrian and you might be stuck with $100k bill otherwise.
- License. Good thing also. As a pedestrian I'm happy they don't let 10 year old kids ride 200 pound 2 horsepower scooters all ove the place.

So in theory this is all not bad idea. In theory it's also possible to register self-made moped. I'm thinking to slowly go through this process and see if in practice I'll be bogged down by endless beraucracy (very likely).

One of the great things about E bikes is that you don't have to go through that government nonsense to ride. That is the point to the federal gov classifying what a E bike is.

If I'm going to spend 1.5 to 3K on a E bike then have to go through registration and all the fees a motorcycle has to go through

Well for 3k I can buy a small motorcycle

One of my goals with the E bike was to be free of government's overbearing rules. If I need lights fine if that gets me accepted by the state but registration and fees, fees and more fees

Time for a motorcycle and yet another freedom of expression and lifestyle choice taken away.

So If I buy a Motorcycle for parts and fit it with a motor batteries etc. how does the registration change if it looks the same and all the lights and such still work as the OEM intended. Does one just reg the bike as if nothing was done to it?

Starting with a street-legal bike would save a lot of work of finding all the components and would save time on development. And used/damaged motorcycles can cost less than a new bicycle But typical 250cc motorcycle is 350lbs+. Even removing engine/transmission would make it too heavy in my opinion.

For registration I believe it would still be treated as a self-made bike and you would have to go through inspection.

The lightest motorcycle I could find is Tomberlin MadAss... still 200 lbs. But converting that to electric would be fun. Or even riding it unconverted But it's both rare and expsnsive.