Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread

[chopper_elec]

Yeah very valid point, I think its more about there being more cars on the road than buses, it would all be scaled up accordingly i'd presume if there was more buses than cars on the road.

Its definitely a touchy subject though as we all have different abilities and skills, but the issue is that others that may not be able to control or make reasonable decisions will "legally" be able to ride at "New Legal Speed" and with "New Power Limit" in their hands.

That is the "unknown" that no one can really "gurantee" the safety. Personally they would receive more complaints overall from people disaproving afterwards than there is now fighting for it. For them its a no brainer to go with what "works" in Europe for the general public.

I know that cyclists already have a hard enough time defending their safe space on the road (which is why I don't ride on the roads), let alone the "New Riders" that will be pushing the limits and putting pressure on the slower riders/peddle power only cyclists to hurry up in the bike lanes/Left Lanes. From the people that i've met in life, I could gurantee a fair percentage would keep to less than 25km an hour riding as a comfortable speed even if they could go faster.

[schmidty_81]

I see your point. I reckon the argument to be made for faster e-bikes is that the traffic is so bad and the public transport so woefull that it's sending people carazy (sic). People are always going on about mental health these days.

Honestly there's a story just about every week of some road rage incident going terribly wrong, I reckon if I were stuck in a car in bumper to bumper traffic all day I'd go mad... There is an alternative people... E-Bikes, thing is though they aren't going to catch on in Australia if they can only go 25! The country's too big and everyone lives too far apart.

Where I work there's a firm of traffic engineers next door and I was having a chat to them one day and he said even a 5% decrease in traffic volume makes a massive difference to the traffic flow... That's why whenever there's an industrial RDO or something like that there's such a noticeable difference.

[chopper_elec]

It seems that all the right decisions are made too late, think of how much of a disaster the fossil fuel combustion engine has had on the world in the last 100 years or so?

It took how many billions of years for the world to evolve into what it was, for us to kill it within 100 years?

You would think the world would be completely revolving around new methods of transport, not just charging people for the carbon they are leaving behind.

I have 100 different ways on improving our carbon footprint and ebikes has always been one unbelievable innovation on a an already tried transport method being the bicycle.

I think every new house should have Solar Power systems severly subsidised to encourage people. Imagine how much we would all save long term, and think of all the houses using energy that would otherwise go to waste (solar power).

[Scruffoid]

The Problem that we all face here is that laws are made by majority decisions so that politicians can get elected.

If the majority of people in a place think something is right than that is the law. Take a look at something like the age of consent laws around the world as an example. Where some think 18 is OK other countries have it at 10 years old, but that is what they think is the right thing.

So my point is that while we have so many car drivers on the road that think that bikes shouldn't be there at all, or that they don't pay rego and the many other reasons that makes all other forms of roads users dislike bikes, the rules will never be made on any grounds of be reasonable points and commonsense.

Do you think the bike paths in the sydney CBD did any good for the career of the person who approved em. I think not!

The only way your gonna see more people on Ebikes and the laws changing is when we actually run outta Petrol all together as the majority of people would rather just drive smaller cars and save the petrol then start going to an ebike. They will transfer to e-cars before e-bikes as well so the laws are there to stay and any chages will have to be agreed to by the mass of bike hating people.

As always look like your being good and hope you keep getting away with it

[sn0wchyld]

,...

As always look like your being good and hope you keep getting away with it

story of my life

[chopper_elec]

,...

As always look like your being good and hope you keep getting away with it

story of my life

x2 lol

[chopper_elec]

I'm really curious of the stories of fellow ebikers that may have been picked up and questioned. What was the main

If the person investigating knew what they were talking about, how was it handled from there?

If someone was technically running something with a bit too much power how would it be handled.

I haven't read any stories in Australia about any ebikes being picked up for power levels and there is no way to actually detect the values without a dyno.

I just want to enjoy the same speeds that i'm able to do by cycling which is only 5km or so more. I feel somewhat tempted to settle for a 200-250w specced motor so I know I can just enjoy it without the hassle.

[Samd]

The new ebike laws were announced here in Ballarat by our local MP. I've dealt with her in a corporate sense before and she is ok.

Thinking of inviting her out with a few ebikers somehow to break the ice and see if we can further alert her to the cause, without setting off alarm bells about 8kW croborgs suddenly being strapped to kids' scooters and ridden by kids who'd otherwise go trainsurfing....

[schmidty_81]

I'm really curious of the stories of fellow ebikers that may have been picked up and questioned. What was the main

If the person investigating knew what they were talking about, how was it handled from there?

If someone was technically running something with a bit too much power how would it be handled.

I haven't read any stories in Australia about any ebikes being picked up for power levels and there is no way to actually detect the values without a dyno.

I just want to enjoy the same speeds that i'm able to do by cycling which is only 5km or so more. I feel somewhat tempted to settle for a 200-250w specced motor so I know I can just enjoy it without the hassle.

I'm in Melbourne Victoria and I ride a 36 Volt 500 Watt front wheel mounted e-bike every day (unless it's really wet) to work and have for the last 3 years or so. The bike itself is good for 40-45 kmph on the straight so by no means the fastest thing on the bike track but at the same time well above our Nanny State laws.

I stick to the bike tracks mostly and am a very sensible rider, I share your sentiment that I just want to be able to go the same speeds I can if I rode a flashy road bike, for me it's just economics all up my bike probably cost about $1,000 I could have spent this on an average road bike, all the lycra and that instead and while this would be healthier for me I know myself and I'm lazy. I'd probably only actually ride it once a week the rest of the time I'd be reaching for the car keys, with the E-Bike there's no excuse so it's every day, you still do get some exercise too.

I've ridden past the police many times, some days I actually ride directly past the Camberwell police station, once I was going down a side street and a divvy van waited to let me go past so I gave him a wave and everything. I've never been pulled over or questioned at all.

In my travels I've run into quite a few other E-Bikers in the area, most of them were slightly higher powered than 200/250 Watts. This question has always come up and and most people also haven't been questioned. The only one person who had been pulled up (twice actually) that I've run into was doing about 20km's per day on the road in an electric tricycle. Both times the cops were basically just curious that it was actually also a bike (ie:// that the pedals worked, so not just a motorbike). The actual power wasn't tested or called into question (and his was definitely higher than legal), I guess from your police officers point of view it's just too hard to test and not worth the paperwork.

I've actually got a 200 watt model also because I was worried about the legality and I just never ride it, it's too slow... If you do get tempted to settle for the legal model let me know and I'll sell you mine because I'm never using it again... I strongly suggest you don't though.

[Architectonic]

I think it depends on how you ride. If you are always pedalling, you won't attract much attention <40km/h. Stealth batteries, such as hiding it in the Falcon EV bag help too. Keep in mind that cops see lycra-clad cyclists doing 40km/h regularly and so this is considered 'comparably safe' to most.

I've never actually been questioned about how much power the bike has. ('500w' MAC motor)

[Scruffoid]

I was riding my petrol bike home from work one day and was almost run off the bike path by a Cop car pulling outta a side street.

I look straight at the guy and yelled out WTF! and at this he turned on his lights pulled me over and asked if i had a problem. To which i replied that he should watch how he is driving etc etc. His only response was i didnt hit you thou.

So he breath tested me and sent me on my way. Not once did the bike i was riding get questioned. I was doing about 35 when i came upon them. I was running 500W at the time, but again how can they tell. The law is stupid and not enforcable. The new laws dont replace the old ones so we are still in the same place we always were. They cant tell on the side of the road the power you are running.

You gotta be a real arse to get done for this offence i think as from what people are saying on this forum the cops are into the e-bikes as much as we are and as long as its not making craps loads of noise and your riding like a average normal person blah blah bah your fine.

Wayne

[sn0wchyld]

Yea I wouldnt stress at all so long as you ride 'sanely'.

In the past year, I've ridden past cops dozens of times, on foot, on bikes, on horseback, cars, and motorbikes. None so far have even given my bike a second look, and mine is hardly the most subtle build out there, particularly with the small rear wheel. I've been stopped waiting for lights to change with 2 cops on the side walk 3m away from me. neither gave my bike more than a passing glance. I've ridden past crowds of cops during the clipsal, and though a large park where they were training their dogs (about 10 cars, 15 odd cops) doing about 40km/h. One gave me a thumbs up. So long as your not being an ass, I doubt any will ever bother you.

Like others have said, most dont know or cant be bothered with the ebike laws, so ride safely, ghost pedal, and you'll likely never have a problem. if you do, play dumb, and get one of jays '200w' stickers, I've got a few spares too if he's run out, and point to the sicker saying 'it says its legal'... but if your smart + just a little lucky it'll never come to that .

[megacycle]

Question and probably had this one b4 so sorry in advance.
If i have a 5404 beastie and decide to put it in a moped.
In SA can ride 50cc electric equivalent, say1500W, on a full car license.
In NSW understand if its automatic equivalent 125cc,
If it passed moto reg would it be go and if not could fly under radar.
Suppose would then be busted for illegal modding.
Though there is a few electric moped and scooters around already.

[gm6046]

I've had the same experience as most here - I ride my bike most days and there have been many times where I've been past the police and they don't have a problem with the bike at all. An unmarked car drove up along side of me one day when I was going about 35kph up a hill and once they saw that I was 'pedalling' they just accelerated away. My bike looks a little bit like a motorbike, so they were probably just making sure I wasn't riding a motorbike in the bike lane.

-Stu

[all74]

It's not the police who make me want to have a legal bike, its the lawyers. All the police can do is fine you. If your on and illegal bike and are involved in an accident it does not take a great leap of imagination to see some laywer making a case against you. Even if you haven't got much in the way of assets this kind of issue just makes life very difficult for months or years.

[Hyena]

In SA can ride 50cc electric equivalent, say1500W, on a full car license.
In NSW understand if its automatic equivalent 125cc,

Nope, in NSW you need a full bike license so there's no benefit in buying a scooter over a proper motor bike

[chopper_elec]

It's not the police who make me want to have a legal bike, its the lawyers. All the police can do is fine you. If your on and illegal bike and are involved in an accident it does not take a great leap of imagination to see some laywer making a case against you. Even if you haven't got much in the way of assets this kind of issue just makes life very difficult for months or years.

The lawyer would no doubt still need to bring evidence to the board which would require accurate testing. Even 250w motors would likely pull 400-500w at take off/up hills.

The same legal conditions could be applied if you were causing an accident and they were able to pickup that you were speeding at the time.

Would a cycle analyst set to 250w and limited electronically to 25km speed limit be suffice? You could prove that the motor has been detuned.

[megacycle]

Was trying to make sense of this ;
http://www.moneysavingaussie.com/Pages/ ... mania.aspx
Not trying to ride over your territory Jay must be misinterpreting something there,
its gov stuff so suppose gobbledy gook is to be expected.

[Hyena]

What I was getting at is you can't ride with just a car license. Yeah you're right, it's not a "full" bike license as such but it seems you have to do most of the same tests and jump through the same hoops as doing a motorbike license so you may as well take the extra step and be able to ride what you like. Or you could stay on your L plates doing the above and ride a motorbike anyway.

Anyway, bring on a >250w ebike class with a nominal registration fee and I'll sign up

I'd probably have a license by now if my wife didn't forbid me from buying a motorbike. Just like the police, it seems as long as it has pedals and she sees my legs moving I can get away with it The regulator in a skirt can make my life more miserable than the one in the blue shirt

[megacycle]

That sux was hoping for a loophole there for you NSW blokes.
Us SA blokes might be able to abuse that 1500w though. No pedaling allowed
That monster you sold me gangster needs a good flogging and a pusher frame won't hack it for a big setup
Large A123 setups onboard charging cetera.
Mate of a mate wrecks motorbikes, so could be an option.

Yep the boss indoors, got her thumb print tattooed on the forehead too.
She doesn't want me dead yet too, not enough super .

[Hobbit]

Yep, that's it, cook, bottle washer AND senior saergent of "the fun police". I've got one of those too. And + 1 on pedalling = universal legitimacy.

[megacycle]

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[whatever]

to limit a controller to the correct power limit you need to know the peak power limit, as it stands its given as continous power rating of 250watts.
I haven't read all the european paper standards but until someone finds what is the equivalent peak power is being used by the australian govt regs. you wont
be able to limit to 250watt continuos. My guess is it will be around 700 -750watts but until someone finds it printed in some relevant document no one will know how to set controllers to exact power limit and be street legal.

[whatever]

a quick google search all I could find is motorino cycle which is saying 250watts continous is equivalent of 600watts peak using eu standard
sounds about right, its quite difficult to find a definition that relates continous to peak power.
You could probably add 20% to the 600watts due to losses in motor should be pretty close but the exact peak power level allowed
its necessary to find out what it is.
Adding 20% for losses gives 720watts peak power so I would go with that until someone finds exact figure ( assuming measuring power used measured at battery terminals).
Fortunately this is pretty close to the peak power used by most ebikes running on 48v nominal and approx 18max at controller.

[Diamondback]

im not so sure of those figures.

my ezee kit with the stock ezee 20A controller would pull 1000W peak and around 690W constant.
on 48V and that was limiting the current to only 15A at the CA. The CA was correctly calibrated to the shunt value too.

my new setup on the trike will be slightly less, as im now running 44V nominal (12S lipo) with the 20" ezee geared hub motor.

Jason