Start of my E-Cruiser Project

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Start of my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:53 pm

After watching lot's of electronic vehicle video's on YouTube and driving in a Lotus Tesla I really want to have my own electric vehicle. Unfortunately I don't have the money to buy a Tesla from the shop, so I have to make my own e-vehicle which is going to be a Nirve B1 Beach Cruiser. For me it was obvious to choose for a Beach Cruiser cause of the looks and the low center of gravity.
I'm quite new to the electric vehicle e-bike scene, although I have been studying Electronics for 2 years ages ago.

Here you can see the bike I just bought and assembled for this e-bike project. The bike has 26" wheels.

Image


As it comes to the performance of the bike I have several wishes:
- Instant start rear hub motor. (I'm going to remove the peddles and the chain so no freewheel needed)
- Fast accelleration is more important than topspeed.
-Top speed ± 30 MPH (or about 50 Kmh)
- 2 disc brakes and front-fork suspension
- Twist Throttle
- Lithium-ion battery pack
- No e-brake system

I have been looking around for the proper setup, and I find it very difficult to choose the proper setup. Until now I have the following setup:
- BMC V3 Rear Hub Motor (1000W) or BMC V2 High Torque Rear Hub Motor (600W)
- BMC full-twist Throttle
- LiFePO4 48V 10Ah Battery
- BMC 48V 50A Controller
- Cycle Analyst Stand-Alone

Can anyone tell me if this setup will work properly according the required needs? Any help or suggestions would be more than welcome!
Last edited by E-GE on Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nirve B1 Cruiser - 9C 2806 Rear - 48V - still in the works: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19171
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby itselectric » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:09 pm

E-GE wrote:
As it comes to the performance of the bike I have several wishes:
- Instant start rear hub motor. (I'm going to remove the peddles and the chain so no freewheel needed)
- Fast accelleration is more important than topspeed.
-Top speed ± 30 MPH (or about 50 Kmh)
- 2 disc brakes and front-fork suspension
- Twist Throttle
- Lithium-ion battery pack
- No e-brake system

I have been looking around for the proper setup, and I find it very difficult to choose the proper setup. Until now I have the following setup:
- BMC V3 Rear Hub Motor (1000W) or BMC V2 High Torque Rear Hub Motor (600W)
- BMC full-twist Throttle
- LiFePO4 48V 10Ah Battery
- BMC 48V 50A Controller
- Cycle Analyst Stand-Alone

Can anyone tell me if this setup will work properly according the required needs? Any help or suggestions would be more than welcome!


E-GE:
That is great that you have selected high torque / high speed setup. But how are you planning to put 2 disc brakes at the front? Are you planning to put rear brake? If you have to stop in a hurry, you will flip over with dual front disc brakes.

Ken
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:35 pm

Hi Ken, With double disc brakes I mean one in the front and one in the rear. A superman dive over the steer was not exactly my idea :D
Nirve B1 Cruiser - 9C 2806 Rear - 48V - still in the works: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19171
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby wheelbender6 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:16 pm

Just build it!. It's gonna look so cool that you can't go wrong.
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:19 am

Wheelbender,
Can you show me some pictures of your just finished project?
As for the looks: I want to keep the bike as clean and raw as possible. Do you have any tips for working away the cables? Drilling holes in the frame could be an option, but don't know how it will work out.
After seeing some BMC V3 video's on YouTube I guess I should go for the 1000W version :D
Nirve B1 Cruiser - 9C 2806 Rear - 48V - still in the works: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19171
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby itselectric » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:28 pm

E-GE wrote:Hi Ken, With double disc brakes I mean one in the front and one in the rear. A superman dive over the steer was not exactly my idea :D

Ok. I see. The reason I am focusing around your front brake, if I am correct, your frame do not have rear disc brake mount, nor v-brake mount. We actually did a similar configuration with Nirve Classic-3. It has a coaster brake, no front brake.

- We installed Sturmey Archer XFD front hub drum brake
- We used a regen sensorless controller which also provide some regen brake to rear wheel
- the dropout width is not a standard 135 or 100mm, we use custom 115mm axle, with single speed freewheel

The BMC 1000W is a powerful motor with 48v pack, you need to have some good brake to stop. If you don't have mounting for the disc brake, you will need other type of alternative, or weld the disc mount onto the frame.

Here is the picture of the bike.
DSC00947 [800x600].jpg
DSC00947 [800x600].jpg (94.54 KiB) Viewed 2148 times
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby gestalt » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:38 pm

That's a rockstar status cruiser frame to build an e-bike with, if you haven't already done so you should check out this thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8099&hilit and get a load of all those early motorcycles. I cant wait to see this bike start to take shape.
- be seeing you
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:41 am

itselectric wrote:
E-GE wrote:Hi Ken, With double disc brakes I mean one in the front and one in the rear. A superman dive over the steer was not exactly my idea :D

Ok. I see. The reason I am focusing around your front brake, if I am correct, your frame do not have rear disc brake mount, nor v-brake mount. We actually did a similar configuration with Nirve Classic-3. It has a coaster brake, no front brake.

- We installed Sturmey Archer XFD front hub drum brake
- We used a regen sensorless controller which also provide some regen brake to rear wheel
- the dropout width is not a standard 135 or 100mm, we use custom 115mm axle, with single speed freewheel

The BMC 1000W is a powerful motor with 48v pack, you need to have some good brake to stop. If you don't have mounting for the disc brake, you will need other type of alternative, or weld the disc mount onto the frame.

Here is the picture of the bike.
DSC00947 [800x600].jpg


Hi Ken,
Nice bike you have there. Is there a forum topic of the build of you bike?
I'm going to replace the front-fork with a MTB suspension fork including disc brake. In the rear there is no disc brake mount yet. I'm going to use an adapter for the rear to make it disc brake compatible. I think that should do.
Nirve B1 Cruiser - 9C 2806 Rear - 48V - still in the works: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19171
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:00 am

gestalt wrote:That's a rockstar status cruiser frame to build an e-bike with, if you haven't already done so you should check out this thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8099&hilit and get a load of all those early motorcycles. I cant wait to see this bike start to take shape.


Hi Gestalt, Thanks for the link! I've build up a folder on my computer full of these old-skool bobbers and motorized bicycles just for inspiration.
I really dig your project. The bike is going to look completely different from the first picture. Unfortunately I'm not that skilled and can not weld, so I have to do it with more "plug and play" parts. I'm going to try to keep the bike as clean as possible.
Nirve B1 Cruiser - 9C 2806 Rear - 48V - still in the works: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19171
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby itselectric » Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:22 pm

E-GE wrote:Hi Ken,
Nice bike you have there. Is there a forum topic of the build of you bike?
I'm going to replace the front-fork with a MTB suspension fork including disc brake. In the rear there is no disc brake mount yet. I'm going to use an adapter for the rear to make it disc brake compatible. I think that should do.

Thank you for your comment! I don't have a topic of my build, it scatter all over the place, but here some of posting of my build:

the most interesting to you, may be the Electra cruiser and Crazy Chopper bike

Stealth Bike
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16930

Solar Bike
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13091

Crazy Chopper Bike
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7710

Electra cruiser conversion
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17095

Cruiser Trike
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7674

I am a retailer/online dealer, so I have seem more bike and have converted many interesting bikes. By now, I know what works and what to avoid for pitfall.

Ken
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby geetarboy » Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:12 pm

Hi E-GE,I like those big white balloon tires on that black frame- nice contrast, what kind are they?
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:05 am

Geetarboy, They are Schwalbe Fat Franks 26". I know Electra has the same kind of balloon bike wheels.
Nirve B1 Cruiser - 9C 2806 Rear - 48V - still in the works: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19171
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:46 am

I'm still not sure if I should go for a BMC v3 or a Crystalyte hub. I've been reading about the pro's and con's of both, but still find it hard to choose.
My feeling says I'm better off with the BMC v3 because of the circumstances where i'm going to ride the bike.
- Mostly flat and good city roads (no off roads)
- Not for everyday use
- Temperatures from 0°C to 25°C Max (32F to 77F)
- Toque / acceleration is what I want
- top speed of 25MPH is more than enough

Any help or advice would be appreciated. Can anybody show me a video of the acceleration of the BMC v3? I'm curious about the sounds that this motor produces. I can't find any good ones on YouTube.
Nirve B1 Cruiser - 9C 2806 Rear - 48V - still in the works: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19171
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:18 am

Finally, I have the stuff needed for my first e-bike project. :D
I will use a Nine Continent 2806 hub with a 25A Infineon controller on a Nirve cruiser with metal frame. The current space between my dropouts is 109 mm, while the dropout space needed for the 2806 hub is 134 mm.
That means I'll need to bend the frame for 25 mm which is quite a lot in my opinion. Here you can see 2 images of the frame.

Image

Image

Would it be safe to bend the frame, or do I need to make another construction? Any advice is welcome!
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby AussieRider » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:55 am

G'day.
You can bend the frame a bit but make sure you keep the pedal & wheel sprockets lined up. Gently does it. Make sure the dropouts stay parallel as well.
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Re: Start of the my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:54 am

Just finished working on my bike for this day. I've managed to get the rear 135mm hub into the 110mm frame by using a little tool to stretch the frame for tire replacements (it's laying on the ground on the left side in the image). As you can also see on the image below is that the 9C wheel in not really centered, although the frame is stretched on both sides. The space between the frame and rim on the left side is 28mm while on the right side it's 18mm. I'm not sure how to deal with this problem yet. I guess it's possible to drive, but a centered wheel would always be better. I've placed the washers on the outside to minimize the frame stretch. Are there any good reasons to place them inside?
Tomorrow I'll try to give the wheel it's first spin while upside-down by connecting all the parts. :D

Image
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Re: Start of my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:47 am

Yesyes, got my first ride on the bike yesterday, although the bike is far from finished. First impressions are great. I was unable tot do a lot of testing since my single side calliper brake is not braking at all. I'll hope to find a front suspension fork with disc brake soon!
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Re: Start of my E-Cruiser Project

Postby Whiplash » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:10 am

Double post...
Last edited by Whiplash on Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

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Re: Start of my E-Cruiser Project

Postby Whiplash » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:11 am

For the wheel not being centered, You can try loosening the spokes on the side the wheel is to far over on and then tightening the other side to pull it over. Go really slow and try to count the turns you make and match them on the other side to keep it somewhat straight, then you can finish it up by checking the straightness of the wheel by spinning it and adjusting where needed to get it perfect, its not too hard just time consuming...Nice looking bike!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
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Re: Start of my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:36 am

Whiplash wrote:For the wheel not being centered, You can try loosening the spokes on the side the wheel is to far over on and then tightening the other side to pull it over. Go really slow and try to count the turns you make and match them on the other side to keep it somewhat straight, then you can finish it up by checking the straightness of the wheel by spinning it and adjusting where needed to get it perfect, its not too hard just time consuming...Nice looking bike!


The wheel has been trued by the local bike shop. I think the flight from Canada to Europe was quite bumpy, since the bikeshop found out that there is a slight bump in the rim, so it will never be fully trued.
After placing the wheel in the frame for the 2nd time I centered the wheel by adjusting the position of the axle. Have to say that it looks pretty good now.

By the way: The auto-cruise functionality on the new Infineon controllers is horrible. I'll desolder this "feature" as soon as I find a good instruction...
Nirve B1 Cruiser - 9C 2806 Rear - 48V - still in the works: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19171
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Re: Start of my E-Cruiser Project

Postby torker » Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:51 am

I would try to run a washer on the inside. 9c motors have a really small flat on the axle. I would worry that it will try to pull through the dropout.
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Re: Start of my E-Cruiser Project

Postby docnjoj » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:01 am

Torque arm(s)?
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Re: Start of my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:33 am

docnjoj wrote:Torque arm(s)?
otherDoc

I'm currently drawing my custom torque arms for both sides. I've a steel frame, so for now I'm good.

torker wrote:I would try to run a washer on the inside. 9c motors have a really small flat on the axle. I would worry that it will try to pull through the dropout.

I'll try to place the washers on the inside next time I'll have to remove the wheel. The axle is not suited for every day pit-stops...
Nirve B1 Cruiser - 9C 2806 Rear - 48V - still in the works: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19171
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Re: Start of my E-Cruiser Project

Postby E-GE » Mon May 23, 2011 5:15 am

I'm about to (re)start the project again. I've a new suspension fork with a brake disk and I've been working on a battery tank that's hopefully going to look quite awesome. I'll try to post some new photo's within the next few weeks!
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Re: Start of my E-Cruiser Project

Postby torker » Mon May 23, 2011 9:05 am

Yea +2 on the washers inside. If that is a steel frame it should be no prob to spread it a little more. You did say you are going to run singlespeed or no pedals so you could do like I did and file/mill the flat on the axle. I gained another 1/4 inch doing this. I pretty much had to as my rear drops are alum. and I was not about to spread those. I have to run a singlespeed sprocket now but no bother for me.
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