Tidal Force : "The Long Ranger"

[Hyena]

Call me anal but I like 0.005 or Less deviation so im sitting at 4.192 on my lowest and 4.200 on my highest......

Dude that's not anal, I've seen people institutionalised for lesser OCD than that
Seriously that's about as close to perfect as you'll get and unless you want to get the absolute maximum capacity from the pack with a 100% discharge it means nothing anyway. As you would know the cells get out of balance at the bottom end anyway and it's highly likely the first one will hit LVC while the others are still a bit higher. eg most of mine are around 3.4v when the runt hits 3v, but if you unwisely ignore the runt (eg if just using beepers) you'll find the others will cliff dive less than a minute later - which makes zero difference in the real world (other than shortening the life of the pack)

I think the early hysteria about lipo and balancing has made people overly cautious and/or mentalists about the whole thing.
Considering most of us aim for an 80% discharge near enough really is good enough when it comes to balance. If a few cells are at 4.17v while the others are at 4.20v it makes SFA difference to your discharge. Sure those cells at lower voltage are charged to slightly lesser capacity but if you're not using ever last drop anyway then it doesn't matter. I've become particularly aware of the trivialities of precision balancing at the top end recently with my isolated balance chargers. Unlike hobby chargers it chargers each cell individually so you can see how much current each cell is taking. The ones to hit HVC first turn off and allow the other cells to keep charging. On a closely balanced pack (say 4.18-4.20v) The cells that are at 4.18v continue to charge for maybe a minute longer than the ones that have already hit 4.20v and stopped taking charge.
So in use, that extra top up for those cells probably gives 30 seconds of discharge. Or less, and that's under light use (1C or less)

So, assuming you're pulling absolute maximum capacity from your pack, is an extra 30 seconds of riding time worth losing your shit over ?

Just sayin...

[amberwolf]

I'm certainly not an expert on RC LiPo yet, but even with the mismatched repaired packs I've got here, I haven't seen a problem with the <50% discharges I've put them thru in tests so far, for balance. I dont' charge any higher than abotu 4.15v/cell, and I just bulk charge, checking sometimes with a DMM or a Battery Medic, during charge or at various states of discharge. I see a few hundredths of a volt variation most of the time, if that. Only thing I did at all to them was manually balance the cells to within that variation to start with, since the cells have come from various different packs with different SOC and age and whatnot.

I'm sure once I start discharging them deeply I'll see more variation, but so far, not a problem in my short work commutes and test rides.

Then again, I also carry mine around in lightly-vented ammocans.

Wow that's an epic fail on the motor case. It's definately made of CCA! (chinese cheese alloy)

At least it isn't radioactive like some "stainless steel" pet dishes recalled recently. (though to be fair, these were from India)

[icecube57]

http://www.amazon.com/M-Wave-122461-Bic ... m_sbs_sg_1

What do you guys think of the. This actually seems like it would fit my entire pack or atleast 4.

[Alan B]

What do you want the weight distribution to be on your ebike?

It seems important to avoid too much weight on the rear and distribute some to the front.

A trunk full of batteries tends to make the bike want to lift the front wheel easily, and it tends to make the bike wobble on steering input.

Best weight distribution is high in the front and low in the rear.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_an ... e_dynamics

[icecube57]

Ok so a status update. Ive nicknamed my build The Long Ranger" due to my moderately larger than average pack. 125-150 mile range at 15-20mph pedaling along.

Almost all the wiring for my switches and controller and everything is done. I had to order a bottom bracket tool to install my PAS. I got that installed. I gotta hook up the ground to it to make it work. One of my 3 position switches enables and disables the throttle and PAS. The other switch controls speed 1-2-3 I have to wait until my motor gets here so I can install the thermal switch that disables speed 3 and defaults it to speed 2. Controller power switch is wired up. I have my ebrake levers wired. Also I have push button regen on my multi switch also. I had to rewire the switch internally because the common ground would have fubar somethin big in the controller with full pack voltage going to some of the leads. Lyen needs to stop making this info top secret cause if i didnt have common sense to check continuity and mark my wires with my volt meter I would be screwed.

I didnt upgrade the phase or power wires on my controller but I did shrink wrap them from the board to the outside of the controller... Twice on the outside of the controller. Controller is mounted under the rack put on XT150s on the power and the phase wires. I got the wires neatly bundled and streamlined. Looks very clean.

I reinstalled my BB7 brakes on the front. I have Vbrakes with kool stop pads on the rear.

My SA CA should be in the mail somewhere. My motor is in the mail somewhere. I made foam blocks but I ended up order some styrofoam off ebay to fill up the space at the bottom of my bag. I still have to finish my last 4p section... Ive been busy with harnesses... While trying to juggle my build. I havent officially made my harness because Im waiting for my foam to come in for my panniers so I can measure it off correctl.

How many cans of varnish did you people use on one motor when your sprayed.??

I also need a rack bag that can hold 3 of my parallel pack sections 4 would be nice. The packs are 4x4x7ish.... Its slightly rounded up. I cant use topeak beam rack and do not plan to buy one. Their bags are nice but that rack system is proprietary. I dont want to use my panniers all the time only when Im going on extended rides where i need the extra voltage or wh for range.

I ordered a GT Power watt meter as a second reference for charging and discharging. Ill just have it in the bag and compare it with my CA. I need a good meter to spot check cell balance on my packs from time to time. EPBuddy seems to be out of cell logs. I cant justify buying the one that logs .. Anyone know of a source for them.

I aslo ordered go 25 4s jst protector housings. They came in yesterday and I installed them on my balance taps. They definite look better and more professional looking and feel better than the tugging on the bare wires.

[icecube57]

I thought it might be a time to get a new camera. I wish i could afford a go pro but it cant justify it. There is a good alternative. its the JVC Picsion GC-FM2. http://picsio.jvc.com/specifications/index.html I picked up one for 65 bucks on ebay. I found a mount for 12 bucks and bought a 32gb Sd Card for about 120. So everything came in at about 100. The good thing is I have a 5v cell phone charger that Im using for a dc to dc to power my light so All I have to do is splice in a usb cable and I can charge/and capture 5 1/2 hours of video at 1080 1920x1080 resolution. Has time lapse which i will prob use a lot just to keep my long rides short. This means I can get rid of my sorry ass key chain camera.

I found a rack bag that should hold 3 if not 4 of my packs.

Bought a 7 speed freewheel with an 11 tooth cog.

Bought some foam blocks to raise the bottom of my bag so the panniers fill out better. Much better that the expanding foam.

Bought one of those flashing laser bike lane lights. Its novelty but it has a purpose.

I ended up rebuying the top tube bag. Except its all black instead of yellow and black.

[icecube57]

I am long overdue for an update.

I got the wheel. Rewired the wheel. Put a 120C temp switch in the wheel. Shrink wrapped the phase wires. Shrink wrapped the hall and switch wires. This is just a minor upgrade to the stock teflon wires. Did several coats of Spray On motor varnish on the stator. Let it dry for a day. Drilled (9) 1 holes in both side covers. Spray treated the covers and the magnet ring. Respoked the wheel with a better lace pattern for fat people. Used brass washers and one of John Homes spoke pattersn. 13g steel spokes. Got the wheel tensioned and trued at a LBS. Mounted my 2.35 Big Apples on it. Still trying to get my V-brakes perfect on the ride.

The controller has been wired after many hours of soldering and shrink wrapping and testing with my DVM. My test spin ups at 50.4 and 67.2v were good. Havent tested it at 84 or 100v yet. Throttle works. 3 speed switch works. PAS works. Ebrakes work. SA CA works. I got the hall phase combo working on the first go. I have two of Lyens torque arms in the built in Tidal Force torque arm slot. Had to drill one of the holes in both torque arms to accept a bolt that will secure it to the frame so it won move. I have a Lyen multi switch that im using for the 3 speed switch. Controller on and off button and push button regen. About a week ago I installed a power tap in the SA CA so I can use my DC to DC converter for my light and possibly camera. It pulls a very reasonable amount of current from the pack. Less than .1 A when powering my LED Flash Light. Controller is mounted under my rear rack. I used 4mm bullets on the phase connections of the motor.. xt150s on the controler. I know the motor and controller will have some losses due to the small gauge wire. Hoping these oversized connections will heatsink some of the generated heat into the extension cable. My extension wires is 8G between controller and the motor. I have the thermal switch to interrupt Speed 3 which is 120% when the motors over heats which drops the controller to the default 30% top speed which is speed 2. Speed 1 is programmed to 60% top speed.

Still waiting on my small battery bag from china. Dont wanna run the panniers unless im going on a long ride or im running 100v.

I still have to make myself a harness. Im totally lacking motivation. Planned to uses fuse and precharge. That spark is scary. I dont have to make much i just wanted to get my lengths right. Since I already did the paralleling dirty work on my batteries all i have to do is series my groups. Im essentially making extension leads from the battery to the controller which should be a walk in the park.... like said motivation is the key.

I gotta tweak the Speed 1 speed to match my pedal cadence so PAS functions correctly. PAS is scarey in Speed 2-3. It literally launches off the line. I have PAS on this build cause i want a very mild assist on my bike without using the throttle but i want it to be like 50-100w of assist in the flats to where you can barely feel it but you also know it will come in with the truth on hills. I will have a 1kw pack minimum and a 2kw max. So even if pass is wasting power i should have like a 30-40 mile range carrying a small pack. PAS since it can go full speed if you are in speed 2 or 3 it does promot faux pedaling which increases my stealth from the popo out here on our multi use trails.

[icecube57]

[Alan B]

I would add some kind of interlock so when in speed 2 or 3 the PAS is DISABLED. It ONLY should work in speed 1!!!

Also, are you concerned about too much weight in the rear of the bike? Won't this give it a tendency to lift the front wheel and have poor stability?

[icecube57]

I would add some kind of interlock so when in speed 2 or 3 the PAS is DISABLED. It ONLY should work in speed 1!!!

Also, are you concerned about too much weight in the rear of the bike? Won't this give it a tendency to lift the front wheel and have poor stability?

Speed 1 and Speed 2 might be ok because we are looking at unloaded speed. In the video. My next plan is to intergrate a switch for pas.

Its torquey but not that torquey although i havent rode a motor like this at 88v to often. Only at 66v with moderate amps With high speed/voltage or with my extended range the panniers will be on the bike and the weight will be low on the rear so the COG should be better. For shorter distances I will have a rack bag that doesnt affect riding to much.

Im going to revisit the area that broke my arm last year and hopefully I will be able to shed some light on the situation.

[icecube57]

Bag came in today and it perfectly fits 4 of my pack sections in one nice row. It feels solid on the rack. 1.34kwh of power 16 4s hard case packs.

Ive also done my harness a little bit different than I do other peoples. I need to tweak it a little bit but It works for me. Pictures up later today. Im tired as hell.... going back to bed.

[icecube57]

[icecube57]

[Alan B]

Blew your fuse already?

[icecube57]

Update. Changed the fuse to a MAXI and went up from 50A AGU to 80A MAXI. My DP CA came in from methods. I installed and calibrated it.. The CA was peaking at 65-70A. A little bit agressive. I toned it down to where its doing 55-60A with peaks up to 70. I had a problem where i thought i killed my controller. I consulted with Lyen after a few messaged back and forth and alot of probing it turns out his program adapter dongle interfers with the controller and prevents it from turning on. I felt like a dumb ass. Ive been conducting my tests at 16s and i was going to eventually go up to 24s but it requires me to use panniers. But 20s 84v v20Ah will fit in my rack bag. My previous build I was running 18s and call me chicken.. but I tried 20s for 1-2 miles and 20s puts me at the edge of my seat back where I kinda want to be but i kinda want to back down too but man the power still puts a smile to my face the... EV Grin is back. When I went to 20s my 5th parallel section wouldnt dit in a 2x2 formation so I reconfigured it in a 1x4 format and it fits in the bag perfectly. I couldnt be more pleased. Thats why im not going to 24s cause 20s fits pretty damn good in the bag and the cumbersome pannier isnt worth installing. My heel kinda hits the bag...

I also removed the killer PAS. That was way to twitchy on any speed. Im starting to get a hang of the CA and its limiting features. I got the soldering iron out and shorted CR to ground now so i now have cruise control.

[Hyena]

I must have missed it, but what motor did you end up going with ? Looks like a 9C
PAS on a powerful bike is scary! I hope you have a bypass switch on it.

[icecube57]

Ebikekit Rear... Not a 9C tho but a clone.. Jason insists its not 9C.

[icecube57]

[icecube57]

[icecube57]

You know what guys... my ass hurts. I put in my first 40 miler of the year....

There were a few thing i changed on this ride. I put more air in the rear tire. I have 40 up front and 50 in the back on my big apples. I changed my controller programming and remove 120% from my speed switch and programmed it to 100. The reason why i did this is i think when you go WOT it advances the timing regardless on what the speed is so it made for rough shitty acceleration... atleast when i tested it around my neighborhood. When I tried it today after the change there was rock solid acceleration .... this thing has so much pull that i back off before i can even top out at speed. Its supposed to have a theoretical speed in the high 40s.. Ive yet to break 35 but there is still so much acceleration past that point. I think cause of my accident im psyching myself out but i gotta remember where i was riding which is a multi use trail so i try to keep it between 20-25 tops if no one is around or looking i open her up. The bike coasts extremely well so i dont thing its any drive train losses. When i hit the throttlle and accelerate past 30 and let go of the throttle it still feels like accelrating and i hover at a speed for a while then it slowly starts to drop off so it free wheels very well. Also ive down graded to a regular helmet so im not as agressive. I still have my motorcross helmet for whenever i wanna take it back to the streets but for now im still breaking the bike in and working out the kinks

In other news 7 miles at the end of my ride i broke a spoke... it broke at the nipple and not at the elbow.. which is odd for me. I used spoke washers at the elbow this time around... now it breaks at the other end... So i had to limp it home.. the wheel fortunately was still pefectly true i just didnt wanna risk the long ass walk home. So now i gotta remove the wheel and replace the spoke.. which works out because i think i can take it to the LBS and still get my wheel retension and trued within the 30 day grace period which is an awesome value.

My consumption is a little high.This is only my second ride out. My legs arent used to pedaling. This should get better with time. Im 20-30lbs heavier. My battery is about 10 lbs heavier. I think this motor is an 8x7 instead of a 9x7 which i think may make it a slightly hotter/ faster wind. I have a 13-14 tooth cog in the rear instead of the 11 tooth i had last year so i over spin and cant apply to much effort unless the grade slightly changes uphill to drop the speed those 1-2 mph. Im looking into 54t front single crank. Im never winded or out of breath my leg just burn like a mofo so i pedal in 10-15 second bursts and coast a bit on the cruise control for 5-10seconds and pedal some more.

[icecube57]

So... I got my wheel back from the shop .. after I broke a spoke at the end of my last ride.. I replaced the spokeand they retensioned the wheel. Got everything back up and configured... I did more test rides around my home and im looking at my true consumption data..... this Lyen controller is a wolf in sheeps clothing... I know i should scale back... but man the power is just nasty.... So fresh off the charger 83.9v lowest voltage 79.5 Under load and peak is 76A. I know im sustaining every but of 65-70A when I go up the hill on my street....and under acceleration in the flats that 6kw.... I am scared as hell of this thing but i dont wanna go down to 16s... booooooo! I really have to be careful.....I havent even taken the bike up to top speed yet......

also ive been reading around... tell me why am i shopping for heated vests at the end of summer... Damn Alan B...

Broke my flashlight holder while my bikes was spead eagle upside down during repairs... bought a new one... all rubber this time....

[Alan B]

I've been using long underwear under my work pants and a down vest lately and not having to deal with the wires of the heated vest is nice and I'm still toasty. I'll pull the vest out again when it gets colder perhaps. Layers are the trick so you can adjust.

[miro13car]

Whoever was selling those frames with TF logos on them never realized what they could be used for.
By agreement they should have removed name from the frame.

Anyway all this above thread has nothing to do with Tidal Force ebike.

[amberwolf]

By that thinking, one would have to remove the name from any bike you modify from it's original, or convert to ebike if it was a pedal-only, etc. That's silly. What does it matter?

[docnjoj]

Um......I always considered TidalForce to be a high performance American bike brought to it's knees by lousy management. It seems to me IC57 is doing exactly what Tidalforce might have done if they had the business smarts.
otherDoc