Old School Marin Build

[billsy]

Guys I need some help finally deciding which 9C motor to go for. I have studied the simulator at ebikes.ca but I’m unsure how to relate the results to the real world. However I do want one of the new motors (that Justin is just about to get a shipment of) and will probably buy a kit plus extras from him. I'm definitely leaning towards a 2806 mainly because it is labelled as "NC26R_Fast" on his site.

I'm 80% convinced that the 2806 will do 30mph (no pedal) with 48V and 40A controller. Does 30 sound about right?

[billsy]

Anticipating a delivery of headway cells in the next few days (fingers crossed), I have a couple of questions.

Firstly can anyone tell me how much heat (if any) the 12AH cells will generate at 3C? I will be boxing them in with either 0.8 titanium or 1.0 Aluminium sheet so I guess this will act a bit like a heatsink. Or will I need a vent?

Secondly I am thinking of using a light thread locking compound on the terminal screws, the sort of stuff that you would use on your spoke nipples so they don't vibrate loose but you can still make adjustments. I can't think of any problems doing this as long as the electrical bond between the bus bar and the cell remain clean. Anyone else doing this?

Edit 1. Just found this. Look at page 18. They have a strip type insert along a given length of the thread. I used to use something similar on milling cutter inserts.

http://www.longloklocking.com/pdf/handbook.pdf



Edit 2. If only they did a metric version There must be someone selling them!!

[999zip999]

I think you well love the headways at lest it is 16 cells not 64 or more. and a high c-rate. What bms ? What a bms ? Would that be a 60amp. ? If one is used ?

[billsy]

I think you well love the headways at lest it is 16 cells not 64 or more. and a high c-rate. What bms ? What a bms ? Would that be a 60amp. ? If one is used ?

Yes I will be using a BMS. I've ordered a V2.5 from Ping and a 2A charger set to 58.4V

[BIG BEAM]

I use 12 Headways in a sealed wooden box and also use a 9c and draw 25A max .The batteries never even got hot.The black box got hotter than the batteries.I'd say that the hottest they got was 90F and the outside of the box was the same.

But I'm changing to 2 saddle bags from leather up.Going for that elitist professor look.Now all I need is a pipe!
DON

[billsy]

I use 12 Headways in a sealed wooden box and also use a 9c and draw 25A max .The batteries never even got hot.The black box got hotter than the batteries.I'd say that the hottest they got was 90F and the outside of the box was the same.

But I'm changing to 2 saddle bags from leather up.Going for that elitist professor look.Now all I need is a pipe!
DON

Nice one. I'll just seal em up and monitor temps for the first few rides then.

While I'm here. The high rate Ping BMS will allow 60-70 amps continuous and 100 amps peak for 1 second. It also has a much lower working temperature than the standard Ping BMS.

[Mark_A_W]

At 25-30A continuous, my 20 headway cells sealed in a fibreglass box get very warm to the touch. You can hold your hand on them, but they are really quite warm (IR thermometer is on it's way).

But they are over 2yrs old now (12,000km) - the old paper wrapped 10Ah cells.


I wouldn't really pull more than about 40A peak/24A continuous out of a 10Ah cell - unless they have drastically improved.

[billsy]

At 25-30A continuous, my 20 headway cells sealed in a fibreglass box get very warm to the touch. You can hold your hand on them, but they are really quite warm (IR thermometer is on it's way).

But they are over 2yrs old now (12,000km) - the old paper wrapped 10Ah cells.


I wouldn't really pull more than about 40A peak/24A continuous out of a 10Ah cell - unless they have drastically improved.

Mark
Are your 10ah cells still rapped in tape inside the fibreglass box? Nice build by the way.

[billsy]

I'm thinking of copying a friends idea of using one of these as an on/off switch. They are rated at 100 amps continuous at 24 volts which sounds good enough to me for a 48 volt setup can anyone see a problem with this? Appart from me being a copy cat!

[999zip999]

I had many problems with 40 amps. on my bmc it would give a hmmmm. in a graling tune. It finnaly got a c.a. turn it down to 25amps. I would ask how many amps a 9c can take a solwer high torque would take more ? If using on hills and that is it use or a tailor not speed. I think if you over amp. it will not only over heat but it has some rambling inside the motor hmmm. Of coarse I just made that of but I do beleive it ? I do hear it. Yes ?

[billsy]

I had many problems with 40 amps. on my bmc it would give a hmmmm. in a graling tune. It finnaly got a c.a. turn it down to 25amps. I would ask how many amps a 9c can take a solwer high torque would take more ? If using on hills and that is it use or a tailor not speed. I think if you over amp. it will not only over heat but it has some rambling inside the motor hmmm. Of coarse I just made that of but I do beleive it ? I do hear it. Yes ?

Hmmm is your BMC geared or direct?
The motor I'm using at the moment has never skipped a beat at >40 amps. According to my CA it pulls 45 amps when accelerating and occasionally reaches 65 amps. I'm not sure why it goes so high with a 40 amp controller but it does and I've not had any problems in 2 years. I'm pretty confident that the new 9C 2806 will be ok but I'll check with Justin anyway.

Thanks

[billsy]

Quick update

The batteries are still en route from BMSBattery (Ordered Sept 28).

Ping BMS and charger were shipped on Monday Oct 11.

9C 2806 rear disc motor kit inc 40A controller ordered from ebikes.ca yesterday Oct 14.

DC-DC converter and SM connectors received from member Lyen thanks very much.

Back soon

[billsy]

Yesterday morning I was pleasantly surprised to find the FedEx man walking up the drive with what I instantly recognised as a hub motor kit. I have to say that is an amazing service from both ebikes.ca and FedEx. I only ordered it on Thursday morning (UK time).
 
Also the Headway cells arrived from BMSBattery today. That took exactly three weeks
 
I'll get some pictures up later.

Edit: The Ping BMS and charger also arrived today.

Here's the 9C 2806 (10x6) Rear kit from ebikes.ca

[billsy]

And here's the little beauties

I've checked the voltage of each cell and they're all between 3.334 and 3.35

[knoxie]

Hey Billsy

Thats super fast service!! hope you arent stung too badly when the import duty bill pops up in a week or so always the bummer when ordering stuff from overseas unless you get the vendor to stretch the truth a little ahem!

So lots of nice toys to play with there you should have it all up and running OK I am sure, you have a bit of crimping to get the battery pack together and I suppose that is the main job, the rest should be nice and simple.

Looking forward to seeing what it turns out like, the motor looks sweet they have a nice finish on them I will certainly be considering one of them in the future.

Keep us posted

Knoxie

[billsy]

Thanks Knoxie

Yeh those import duty bills are a pain. The cells were marked up as a gift but I forgot to ask Justin at ebikes to do the same so may get a bill.

I think my next task will be to assemble the pack on the bench and see if it balances a few times. Any ideas what I can use to do a load test?

[knoxie]

Hi Billsy

Even if you get it sent as a gift they still tax you over 18 dollars! Hobby King send it as a gift and you can select how much its worth so you can skirt the UK tax laws if this what you want to do not suggesting you do this of course

All your kit is looking great!! I wouldnt worry about checking those cells check them on the bike best load you can put on it hope you got a few spare cells in case? keep the pics coming going to be a nice build this one

[billsy]

Made a little progress today. I have two torque arm's cut and one of them mounted. Big thanks to Kevin ( Member: gwhy) for cutting the profile out for me that would have took me weeks . I have to say I'm getting pretty damn good at filing those 10mm slots tho.

I modelled them using the Sketch Tracer workbench in Catia (during my lunch break ) it enables you to scale a picture and then overlay a sketch. I'm really happy with the result.









P.S. I didn't get an import duty bill yet

[knoxie]

Hey looking awesome! very nice indeed! did you get it laser cut? or CNC? or water jet maybe? be interested to know how the battery build is coming on.

[gwhy!]

Very nice,
Looks a very neat way to to beef up the dropouts. Looking forward to seeing it all come together.

[billsy]

8)

Hey looking awesome! very nice indeed! did you get it laser cut? or CNC? or water jet maybe? be interested to know how the battery build is coming on.

No he used an angle grinder with cutting disc to cut them out and then his Dremel to tidy up. Is this correct Kevin?

I'll be working on the battery tonight so I'll try and get some pics up later. Just need to get some cable.

Ordered some 26 x 2.2 Continental Race King tyres today. £20 delivered for the pair off fleebay. Also ordered some liners to keep punctures to a minimum.

[gwhy!]

8)

Hey looking awesome! very nice indeed! did you get it laser cut? or CNC? or water jet maybe? be interested to know how the battery build is coming on.

No he used an angle grinder with cutting disc to cut them out and then his Dremel to tidy up. Is this correct Kevin?

Yes , 2mm wide cutoff disc on a grinder ( would have been quicker if I had a 1 or 1.5mm cutoff disk )for the big straight cuts then a small cutoff disk on a dremel for the smaller cuts then a milling bit in the dremel to tidy up the small cuts, and to finish off a small sanding drum on the dremel .

[billsy]

8)

Hey looking awesome! very nice indeed! did you get it laser cut? or CNC? or water jet maybe? be interested to know how the battery build is coming on.

No he used an angle grinder with cutting disc to cut them out and then his Dremel to tidy up. Is this correct Kevin?

Yes , 2mm wide cutoff disc on a grinder ( would have been quicker if I had a 1 or 1.5mm cutoff disk )for the big straight cuts then a small cutoff disk on a dremel for the smaller cuts then a milling bit in the dremel to tidy up the small cuts, and to finish off a small sanding drum on the dremel .

That does it, I'm getting a Dremel!

[gwhy!]

That does it, I'm getting a Dremel!

You know it makes sense..


Edit:
When using cutoff discs with a dremel ( well with any sort of tool really ) always wear goggles, the cutoff discs can shatter and fly everywhere.. Oh and also when grinding with a dremel and holding everything in your hands dont forget where the sparks are going its just to easy to set your clothes on fire

[billsy]

Here we go. The basic pack is assembled.

I'll be on a cable hunt tomorrow afternoon!