Hunting on an E-bike

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Dec 7, 2010
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Ral, NC
Though I have searched, there seems to be no relative topic. Hope to find more info, but if people are willing to point me in the right direction maybe it will save some time.

I have access to a MTB frame that I would like to electrify, but from what I have gathered so far a direct drive hub motor make enough noise to prevent "stalking". Solution, geared hub motor on the front.

So how complex would, or even can be, to fit this on 1 frame?

Part of the reasoning it to not stick out w/ large hubs in an urban setting. The direct dive size off set by the gear assembly.

Would it be practical to build a controller that uses the front gear hub for start up as well as hunt mode. Then in the 10-15 mph range, the rear direct drive would kick in and even take over @ urban cruise speed (about 30mph). I don't expect to be traveling 40mph, but @ 300 lbs would like the extra torque as well as keeping the eff up at cruise speed.

How effective would capacitors be at recovering regen brake current, and how would it be returned to the system.

Just throwing this out, will have to search for the applications I hope to apply.
 
Part of the reasoning it to not stick out w/ large hubs in an urban setting. The direct dive size off set by the gear assembly.

You might stick out with a deer slung over your shoulder. :lol:

Being your first build, I would stick to one motor and controller and aim for about 25-30 mph top speed. You will need 2 controllers to control 2 motors unless they are brushed motors which are not gonna do the job anyway. Also, I was under the impression that direct drive Hubs were quieter because they don't have gears that whine and make noise, but I could be wrong. I wouldn't worry too much about regen either, I feel like it's kinda a novelty unless you are going down long steep hills. You're gonna be needing at least a 48 volt battery and will prolly want 20ah depending on range needs. Will you have a handlebar mounted gun? :twisted:
 
Good questions, and welcome to ES! :)

I have also often thought about how I would set-up an E-Bike for hunting, and I would say that Etard is right, generally speaking, DD is quieter than geared, however if your concern is stealth as well, a rear mounted "9C" DD ( 9x7 is my favorite, if you want more speed/power just add voltage & a higher amp controller) wouldn't really be noticed much, and since you are going to be packing gear for hunting, just cover it with some panier bags.

I would be using a small trailer to haul the game out if it was me, and there are several companies making game hauling trailers designed to be used with a MTB.

You should go into the review section and look at the different reviews people have listed for the different companies selling a good 9C motor, I would highly recommend it as it's like the "Klashnikov" of E-Bike motors. It will perform best at 48V+ (at least the 9X7 is IMO a dog at 36V, but might be fine with a higher amp controller, mine is 30A) and give you tons of low end torque for hauling your gear and I have crawled from a complete stop up a 7-10% grade hill in town, starting right at the bottom, no pedaling and it took me up this hill at 12 MPH (My geared motor wouldn't even climb this hill with out help!) and never even got warm.

I would look in the used for sale section, or you can buy new from Amped Bikes, Ebikes.ca, EBikekit or HighTekbikes or if you want a more customized set-up, buy the individual parts and pieces from Cellman or Lyen here on the board.

If it was me, I would put together something with way more power than I expected to use but had a good track record for dependability.

Personally, I would do this build:

(9C 9x7 40MPH club)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18088&hilit=40+MPH+club

I would also want to say, to be realistic, don't expect to get so much speed with the weight requirements you are going to meet. Definitely a good choice with a strong steel frame, and use at least one torque arm some use two, especially on the front, avoid aluminum front suspension forks unless you find one that has a confirmed track record of handling an E-Bike's motor's torque, and the biggest stress is going to be slowing and stopping with a full load of gear and trailer with a deer in tow.

Go slow and make sure you use 14G+ wires to keep the heat down. When your pulling that much weight, I would recommend pedaling first just to get things started, and roll on the throttle slowly, and keep track of the heat of your motor just to be safe at first, most of the time it won't be an issue, but burning up a 9C takes a LOT of abuse, but fully loaded, you might be pushing those limits if you try to go too fast.

For MTB frames I really prefer older Trek Cro-Mo frames as the components they come with are decent (good breaks, cranks, pedals, bearings etc.) I have used 920 and 830 frames that I can get cheap on Craigs List or yard sales (when I get really lucky). I actually bought a decent 830 from CL for $20 and was building up a 9X7 motor on it to sell (now I'm really torn, want to keep it! love this motor! :twisted: ) and with just a stock Amped Bikes kit controller, it's doing 27MPH on just 53V (with LiFeP04 this is really just a hot 48V, I would use LiPo these days) on the flats and has great acceleration and hill climbing!

Dogman has some great extensive comparison testing of different DD motors for hill climbing in high temperatures in the reviews and testing area.

Hope this helps!
 
mat h physics said:
I have access to a MTB frame that I would like to electrify, but from what I have gathered so far a direct drive hub motor make enough noise to prevent "stalking". Solution, geared hub motor on the front.


High torque + front hub + non-paved roads = fail.

Geared hub = louder than direct drive hub.


You want a rear direct drive hub.

www.ebikes.ca

Call them.
 
liveforphysics said:
High torque + front hub + non-paved roads = fail.

Geared hub = louder than direct drive hub.

Now that it the kind of info I need to apply. Though I don't expect to haul a deer, my primary will probably be a handgun.

Thanks for all comments.
 
Etard you crack me up. I was gonna say you will have to do some fancy riding to keep a deer from hearing your tires and freewheel coming. I also say, offroad means rear drive. Get at least one detachable headlight on it :wink: Make sure to waterproof all the connections and cable entry points. Get a motocross hand guard off a dirtbike to keep the throttle from being drenched by brush. No sense having to walk it out of the woods because of a little dew. I recomend a hard battery box to protect the batteries from branches, and from rocks if it tips over.
Brian L.
 
There's also camera hunting. Another guy from NM was working on a bike for that in the mountains. He needed stealth, but the roads are steep as hell. Logging and mining roads so....

His solution was dual direct drive hubs. DD for quiet, and two gave him the climbing power he needed. I suggest two of the crystalyte 4011's. The 400 series clyte is known to be quiet, and the slow winding will let you creep up the road without all the tire noise you'd get going faster. Ebikes-ca has em I think.

Forget going very fast on it, you can't build a bike to go fast on the street AND creep up hills very easily. The one possibility that might, is again dual hub. You could have a slow gearmotor on one wheel, and then activate a faster dd motor on the front hub for street. For that you'd also need dual throttles. And you'd have to live with a noisy gearmotor. So forget that solution for a stalk.

To me though, a stalk is a stalk. Like 15 steps takes 15 min. Rolling on anything, they will hear you coming in my opinion.
 
Not a hunter myself but I've eaten lots of Canada goose fattened on Texas corn fields...

Ya might consider a pusher trailer... That way if yer packing gear or prey yah can load all the weight (and the battery weight) onto the trailer. Fer slow(er) offroad speeds instead of geared hub ya could go rubber belt drive for reduction/efficiency, and any motor noise could be buried inside the trailer.

Good Huntin'
Lock
 
Obviously it depends on terrain, but what about a chase, don't pigs give out easy. Deer would dust a bike on all but optimum terrain. Say U cover alot of ground and jump or enroute prey?
Has anyone delved n2 independent drive systems. Ic board makers for high amp applications, even CPUs connections.
So in a sense, NO ONE has yet to create a "brake bias" system, affording some sort of independent control of each axle?
Save independent throttle.
 
I believe the ES member Rifle has done some bike hunting.
otherDoc
 
I've been out stalking/sniping ground squirrel with precision air rifle numerous times(me and the coyote became buds). Electric MTB works well on the jeep trails if you take care to package your battery solidly yet with some impact absorbing cushioning. Aside from your gun, it'll be the heavy item and you don't won't it to work loose under any circumstance :!: On aveage hilly terrain you may expect 20+ miles from a Lithium or LiFe4 48V 20amp hr batt, maybe more by peddling.
GSquirrel.jpg

30mph will take you a long haul in the back country in a very short time. 25mph with a pretty strong climbing ability would be more realistic. Most motors have rather modest climbing ability and 300lbs up a steep hill is a big task for 48V. If you have any heavy duty climbing, beef up your system like previous replys suggest. Building a rig for off trail rough riding would be a challenge, though it could be done, be committed to considerable time to plan and build. A direct drive hub motor will be quieter than your tires yet there is that top speed vs hill climbing trade off. Even at 20mph, I'd get a dozen miles out 4X times faster on the e-MTB compared to pedal power :wink:

Running down wild pigs, hope you get to do that, man, what a video that'd make :mrgreen:
 
I do alot of hunting with my Ebike.
I have thousands of dollars invested in ESC/motor combos. It all depends on your terrain.
I myself want to stay as stealth as possible so I stick with hub motors. I currently am having some custom made hub motors for a dual motor Elk machine.

The best deer machine I have made by far has been a push trailer. It goes slow on a 20" wheel and can carry all my gear, shoot a deer and put it in the trailer.

I will tell you I snuck up on a bear with my geared bike close enough she charged me and was within 20' before I could dismount off my bike (I was scared I was going to be lunch).
good luck with your search.
 
Yeah, some places you can ride right up to game on a stinking quadrunner. It depends on the spot, other places are semi urban hunting spots where game is used to people.

Here in New Mexico, the game is used to Texans with guns, and is wary as HELL.
 
Fishmasterdan said:
I will tell you I snuck up on a bear with my geared bike close enough she charged me and was within 20' before I could dismount off my bike (I was scared I was going to be lunch).
good luck with your search.

Ya, gotta give more details. Even if U make it up, I wanna hear a story :lol:

So U have exp w/ dual motor control?

Pistol, carry rig for rifle?
 
mat h physics said:
Fishmasterdan said:
I will tell you I snuck up on a bear with my geared bike close enough she charged me and was within 20' before I could dismount off my bike (I was scared I was going to be lunch).
good luck with your search.

Ya, gotta give more details. Even if U make it up, I wanna hear a story :lol:

So U have exp w/ dual motor control?

Pistol, carry rig for rifle?

Ok here is the story.
A friend and I are out scouting a spot for deer, we both have a bear tag also. So we went out on some local logging roads looking for deer sign. I have a rifle across my chest and the clip is in my front pocket. Friend has a 44 pistol as a side arm, I have no side arm.

I round a corner going about 10mph to encounter a momma bear and 2 cubs standing in the road aprox 40' away, my friend has stopped about 100' behind me (he has no idea what is going on). She charges me and gets to aprox 20' away, I am trying to get my gun off my shoulder but my hand is in my front pocket grasping the clip and the gun wont go past my hand in my pocket. I am literally fighting my self (I am also in high panic I think I am going to get eaten). I jump off the bike and think at this point I am going to throw the bike at her. She stands up on her back legs (I will never forget the white patch on her chest) and looks at me, 20' away. The cubs quickly run off into the woods and she follows. All true story. I now know if a bear whats to eat you there is nothing you can do about it. She could have EASILY attacked me before I could have gotten off my bike.

no dual motor exp yet.

I usually carry a pistol ( I shoot uspsa)
Rifle typically goes on the handle bars with quad mounts.
 
If that had been me, my friend would have had to ride home in front to avoid involuntary tearing of the eyes. I would have needed new clothes, and bike seat! :oops: :!:
Brian L.
 
For a hunting bike I'd go with a big scooter hubbie as a mid-drive, something like a Hanebrink http://www.greenspeed.us/hanebrink_all-terrain_bike.html, but bigger and more powerful with a couple kwh of batteries. Gear it quite low for crazy climbing and mud torque. Big fatty tires for an offroad cart or ATV. That keeps things really quiet, but also with a fairly high motor mounting and shielding for mud and water means you won't have to baby it or worry.

Regarding stalking silence, I just don't know unless you're talking wide open country and long shots. For true near silence you need a sine wave controller, which isn't readily available, and probably expensive even if you find one. Brushless motors all make some noise at low speed under heavy load, which I understand comes from the lack of a pure sine wave signal. I've stalked plenty of deer, but in the thick woods I've hunted there's no way even a silent vehicle is stalking alert prey with good hearing unless it's from downwind on a windy day or reasonable distances.

It sounds like a great project, so definitely share the progress and results. A near silent, absolutely dependable electric 2 wheeler would be a great tool for hunting.

John
 
An electric bike would be awesome for hunting. 9c motors make a slight whine but not as much as a person walking. Plus as my dad always said it's not necessarily the noise which spooks a deer so much as a noise they have learned to associate with humans. There is no sound more terrifying to a wild deer than the steady footfalls of a bipedal human. They recognize the cadence instantly. Still I would probably go with an x5 which is supposed to be the quietist from what I have heard. Always head into the wind and never sound like a human. When you must walk, walk slowly without a steady cadence. One foot at a time at random times like a browsing deer. :D
 
My neighbor has ordered a hanebrink. Due soon. He has leased a large acreage. He intends to use the bike to get to the general area then walk. He is not intending to take shots from the bike. If he is sucessful he will use his truck to haul his trophy. At least that is the current plan. Don't know the details on the bike other than it has been customized.
 
John in CR said:
For a hunting bike I'd go with a big scooter hubbie as a mid-drive, something like a Hanebrink http://www.greenspeed.us/hanebrink_all-terrain_bike.html, but bigger and more powerful with a couple kwh of batteries. Gear it quite low for crazy climbing and mud torque. Big fatty tires for an offroad cart or ATV. That keeps things really quiet, but also with a fairly high motor mounting and shielding for mud and water means you won't have to baby it or worry.

Regarding stalking silence, I just don't know unless you're talking wide open country and long shots. For true near silence you need a sine wave controller, which isn't readily available, and probably expensive even if you find one. Brushless motors all make some noise at low speed under heavy load, which I understand comes from the lack of a pure sine wave signal. I've stalked plenty of deer, but in the thick woods I've hunted there's no way even a silent vehicle is stalking alert prey with good hearing unless it's from downwind on a windy day or reasonable distances.

It sounds like a great project, so definitely share the progress and results. A near silent, absolutely dependable electric 2 wheeler would be a great tool for hunting.

John

John;
For me it has to be a hub motor for stealth. I do not want other hunters to know what I am doing. Kinda selfish, I know but if they have the same bike they will be in my hunting spots!! (FYI they are public for anyones use)
 
One of my ATVs, a Honda Recon, has a nice exposed axle in the back that it would be easy to add a chain drive to from an electric motor. I've often thought that a "stealth mode" electric motor would be quite interesting to add to the rig. It doesn't have to go fast or far, just use it when stealth is needed. The tire pressure is 4psi so it doesn't make much noise at all on the dirt road (much less than higher pressure smaller footprint tires) and with the motor in the back the noise forward would be really blocked. Big low pressure tires are very stealth. A Surly Pugsley with dual hub motors would be awesome too.
 
Consider a sprag clutch "spacer", w/ belt drive, to the rear pinion. Mount the motor over the rear axle. Could even get a regn br eff in rev, :roll:

Have yet to lurk the car page, but I think the next hybid drive will be FWD, w/ PM hubmotors on the rear. Pre-assembled drop in electric 30mi range, IMO. Gas back to three dollars US, expect more visitors.
 
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