EBAY auction STOLEN video from me and Methods

AAANNNNDDDYYY advised me today about someone from 2wdcycles in UK that have an ebay auction for a supposed 12000W electric bike kit that is using my video of towing a schoolbus and also the video of Methods showing dual motor video.

I already conplained to him and ebay for the right.

Guys.. I dont like this.... :x

Imagine if people like them begin to use our video hot stuff to promote their sales!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2WD-Electric-...K_Bikes_GL&hash=item19c181efe8#ht_5910wt_1060



Doc

Is there a way to post feedback on a seller on Ebay, without having to buy from him?
I guess that we could drop his satisfaction record to very low, with the help from the members of ES.

Crooks are everywhere on the internet.

Im with Methods right now and just played the video for him.
He says he doesnt care. LOL

My concern is that the "2wd" bike kit they show a picture of is actually that lameo rwd bike that has the battery in the front hub rather than a second motor.
Kinda makes me think they are just scammers.

That is ridiculous ! How can someone just take other peoples videos and pass them as their own ?
Even more so trying to sell something with that..

Un-effin-believable !!

And I agree with LFP, it smells fishy in there..

Lots of web-catalogue pics have the company name across the page in an opaque way. That way if someone tries to copy the pic, its hard to erase the company name, so the original company will get some credit for their device. I don't know how to do that on a You-Tube vid....

Well, I for one will complain to Ebay about this seller.

I am sure if enough of us contact Ebay about this they will be forced to pull the fraudulent video.

this makes me want to take a crap on 2wdcycles keyboard...or shall I dispatch my 40 ronin samurai to their interwebs

I flagged it. Most likely not a legitimate product at all anyway.

neptronix said:

I flagged it. Most likely not a legitimate product at all anyway.

Click to expand...

Yeah, pretty interesting when ALL the pics & videos are taken from ES or at least from members of ES. Kinda surprised this seller has been on Ebay for 2 years and manages to have a 100% positive feedback score.

I'd love to hear their explanation for showing a video of a "2WD" E-Bike doing a burn-out when it's only RWD! Not only are they unscrupulous, but they have very little knowledge of E-Bikes in general.

I bet they just scoured the net for kewl looking vids and pics and someone said ".. ya! use those they look kewl! ..." :lol:

Good thing most thieves turn out to be morons too.

MadRhino said:

Is there a way to post feedback on a seller on Ebay, without having to buy from him?
I guess that we could drop his satisfaction record to very low, with the help from the members of ES.

Crooks are everywhere on the internet.

Click to expand...

You can report this item: On the right in the middle is "report" button click it and choose "fraudulent listing".

I saw this listing last week and thought something was amiss

I am almost certain that this is the guy / company that was selling cyclone kits on ebay a while ago under the name Oxford bikes I think it was, also some members on here bought from them (uprated controllers that blew up etc) no replies / warrenty etc.

edit; its oxford gearbox......found this on a uk forum

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4946-forget-rest-look-2.html?highlight=cyclone (page2)

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/5443-angry-guy-ebay.html?highlight=cyclone

this sucks

Ian

Those of us in the UK, where this seller is based, might be able to find out who he/she is and get Trading Standards on to the case. They should be able to shut him down, at least for a while, for misrepresenting his products.

Getting the word out on as many ebike related forums as possible is a good idea, as at least potential customers will have a better chance of being aware of the sort of character they're dealing with.

AFAIK, you can't report someone on ebay unless you've personally been defrauded or whatever - I'm pretty sure they don't just accept loads of complaints about sellers from different people, but I may be wrong.

Jeremy

Dear itchynackers,

lol we're two guys who work with the piratebay, we
don't believe in 'copyright', we're after
promoting powered cycles to the masses after
modding them, we're not scamming or something, we
just havent got the time to make videos
best
John


- com2wdcycleswww Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: itchynackers
To: com2wdcycleswww
Subject: Other: itchynackers sent a message about 2WD Electric Ebike Kit 12,000 Watts 0-55MPH in 5seconds #110620700648
Sent Date: 12-Dec-10 11:24:30 GMT




Dear com2wdcycleswww,

Why are you stealing other peoples videos again?


- itchynackers

Ive even seen that next photo on post your bike pics
Man some people take the p!$$ and just don't care

This guy is probably just a scammer, plain and simple, judging from that reply. My guess is that they've bought a pile of Chinese stuff, made up an advert full of stolen images/videos, misrepresented data etc from places like this forum and decided to just try and make a quick buck from the unwary.

I'm still notionally a member of the UK Pedelec forum, although I haven't posted there for a couple of years, but I think I may pop over and give them a heads up on this scammer, although it's not the sort of thing that members there would be interested in. Getting the word out on as many ebike forums as possible is probably the best way of tackling him, as I doubt that ebay or the authorities will do anything until someone gets their fingers burned from dealing with him, as I am sure they will. Some one with the sort of morals illustrated by that message, and the content of their advert, is unlikely to be a trustworthy seller.

Looking at the guys ebay feedback it doesn't look as if they've sold any of these kits yet, which isn't really surprising given the high price, but at least it means that no one has yet been ripped off.

Finally, I asked a question about the item on ebay, pointing out that the images and video weren't of their kit, but were taken from others. I had a response similar to the one above, but with the added threat that they are now "watching my ebay account". Any potential customer has to ask themselves if they want to do business with a seller who threatens others when challenged with the truth about their advert.

Jeremy

Heres where I saw that other pic. just scroll down

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=235

They have a web site, http://2wdcycles.com/ that also has images taken from others misleadingly used as illustrations for "their" product, including that one taken from this forum. Under UK law this is an offence under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008:

"These Regulations bring in a general duty not to trade unfairly, prohibit misleading actions and omissions and unfair trading practices and outlaw 31 prohibited specific practices. Areas covered include false descriptions and membership claims, misleading information about prices, scams including prize draws and bait advertising. An offence occurs where the practice contravenes the requirements of professional diligence and affects the economic behaviour in a decision made by a consumer. Many laws were wholly or partly repealed by these regulations including the Trade Descriptions Act 1968, Mock Auctions Act 1961, Part III of the Consumer Protection Act 1987 and the Control of Misleading Advertising Regulations 1988."

The registered address of their business is:

76 Boughey Road
Stoke-on-Trent
ST4 2BB
United Kingdom

Which seems to be a residential, rather than business location.

Their local Trading Standards office is:

City of Stoke on Trent
Regulatory Services Division
PO Box 2452
Hanley Town Hall
Albion Street
Stoke on Trent
Staffordshire
ST1 1XP


telephone: 01782 235000
email: regulatory.services@stoke.gov.uk
website: http://www.stoke.gov.uk/

Jeremy

(edited to add:

I'm now being pestered with multiple ebay messages from this seller. Their latest ebay message to me is, quote:

"you've defamed us for some photographs that we
used, and are undercutting
our sales, when we're
trying to promote ebikes to the community...we
just couldn't get anything done in time for x-mas
so threw some stuff
on.
this demands an apology, we've sold kits to
peopel who are really
happy with them. you are in
contravention of the defamation act yourself
and
have committed an offence!
That ES thread is a pack of lies, we're
selling
honestly and properly to people. sometimes you're
so full of
shit
-com2wdcycleswww"

Being (unfortunately) well-acquainted with the law of defamation (as it applies in England and Wales) I can say with absolute certainty that nothing in the posts in this thread made by me have even come close to being in breach of it. I'll pass them through my friendly solicitor next door to be certain, by I'm in no doubt that everything I've written is above board. The same cannot be said about the seller, who has openly admitted copyright theft.

If they are now removing all the misleading and non-representative images from their advertising then at least that means that they may now be prepared to trade openly and honestly)

Wow, what a coincidence, I just had an email from a guy who was about to buy one of the 6KW 10ah bikes lol. I managed to persuade him not to buy that piece of junk.

Here is part of the reply email I sent to the potential buyer:

Ebay ad: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/72v-6-000-Wat...K_Bikes_GL&hash=item19c1a0b08a#ht_3182wt_1141

I scream bullshit from high above,

Put it this way, there are several reasons why I would not touch this bike:

1: The battery is 10ah 72volt and he reckons it will go 30 to 50miles? At 35mph (average 27mph) using an average of between 20 to 25 amps with 40amps for the big hills for a very short amount of time I get exactly 13 miles range from just over 9ah.

2: You would have to be putting around 85amps in the motor to be getting 6kw. This would mean that it would have to be a beast of a controller with beastly big gauge wiring throughout the system......stock wiring would just melt very quickly.

3: 50mph on that bike! With the rear motor and battery/controller at the back it would handle like a bag of cr*p at anything over 20mph, so bad as to be dangerous.

4: £2,000 and only 10ah battery?

5: The brakes for a 50mph bike are not up to the job

6: If the controller was putting out any more than 40amps on this frame I would think that the motor axle would spin inside the aluminium frame, I am not seeing any torque arms on this bike.

7: 6,000 Watts would burn the motor out very shortly and probably flip you off the seat as soon as you touched the throttle, my 70amp peak bike used to do this and this and that was with the batteries up front....at the back.....game over.

Sellers like this make me angry.

Click to expand...

OMFG! Hes ripped off so many of our videos and pics. I feel highly violated. He ripped of GIncDC's videos, The ascent and descent video of the Stealth Bomber. Our forum pictures, Docs Videos, Methods Videos, He should be punished and barred to the full extent. I wouldnt mind if the kit had truthful claims to any extent but 6kw lucky if they get 600w with those kits. I would love to see a 6000w hub. Or see a completely sealed stock system take 6000w for more than 5 minutes and live to ride another day. 72v. Ha Ha Ha. Those look like Golden Motor Or Ebike Kit batteries stacked 2 high and we all know what they put out. Unless they have headways hidden in there Im not impressed. The controller looks like a 9-12 fet. Theoretically the 12 could possibly burst to 6kw but not hold it to accelerated to 40-50mph and not at 72v more like 130v or insane amount of amps 75A+. I did get a laugh of the trick he stole from lyen about how many kits are left in stock and who and where and what time they were sold. Atleast Lyen is truthful about his stuff but you cant match his selling and feedback history to the claims of the kits sold on his auction pages. I literally feel sick looking at his sheit.

MAYBE I WOULD HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR HIS CLAIMS IF HE WAS SELLING X5 MOTORS IN A RESPECTABLE KIT WITH ATLEAST AN 18 OR 24 MOSFET CONTROLLER SOME HEADWAYS OR TURNIGY/FLIGHTMAX LIPOS ATLEAST 15-20AH 8G WIRING WITH A CYCLE ANALYST TORQUE ARMS FREE HELMET AND BODY ARMOR AND GLOVES...!!! wITH SOME LARGE DIAMETER HYDRA BRAKE UPGRADES AND A FREE PLYWOOD VERT RAMP TO TEST THE RIG

Spacey,

My view is that they are either genuine, but very ignorant of basic physics and the law as it appertains to copyright, or they are out to try and make a quick buck by misleading advertising.

Their ebay messages indicate that they hold the law of copyright in low regard, which makes me suspect that they may not be that concerned with telling the truth about other aspects. The basic numbers don't add up when you examine their claims, as you've pointed out. The net result is that their products almost certainly don't perform as they claim. The battery capacity vs power vs speed claims are optimistic, as we all know pretty much how much energy it takes to get a bike and rider to cover a given distance at a given speed. It's not a difficult calculation and so I'd hope that anyone considering the purchase of any ebike kit would do some homework and see if a sellers claims look realistic, before making any purchase. The same applies to any seller, not this one specifically; it seems that high performance ebikes attract more than their fair share of sellers who are less than wholly honest about the performance of their products.

As always, and notwithstanding consumer protection law, it pays to follow that old saying, caveat emptor (loosely translated as "buyer beware").

Jeremy

From WHOIS:

Visit AboutUs.org for more information about 2wdcycles.com
AboutUs: 2wdcycles.com

Domain Name: 2wdcycles.com
Registrar: Name.com LLC

Protected Domain Services Customer ID: NCR-2943615

Expiration Date: 2011-11-27 15:38:59
Creation Date: 2010-11-27 15:38:59

Name Servers:
ns67.1and1.co.uk
ns68.1and1.co.uk

REGISTRANT CONTACT INFO
Protected Domain Services - Customer ID: NCR-2943615
125 Rampart Way
Suite 300
Denver
CO
80230
US
Phone: +1.7202492374
Email Address: 2wdcycles.com@protecteddomainservices.com

ADMINISTRATIVE CONTACT INFO
Protected Domain Services - Customer ID: NCR-2943615
125 Rampart Way
Suite 300
Denver
CO
80230
US
Phone: +1.7202492374
Email Address: 2wdcycles.com@protecteddomainservices.com

TECHNICAL CONTACT INFO
Protected Domain Services - Customer ID: NCR-2943615
125 Rampart Way
Suite 300
Denver
CO
80230
US
Phone: +1.7202492374
Email Address: 2wdcycles.com@protecteddomainservices.com

BILLING CONTACT INFO
Protected Domain Services - Customer ID: NCR-2943615
125 Rampart Way
Suite 300
Denver
CO
80230
US
Phone: +1.7202492374
Email Address: 2wdcycles.com@protecteddomainservices.com

Timestamp: 1292167433.6277

The Data in the Name.com LLC WHOIS database is provided by Name.com LLC for information purposes, and to assist persons in obtaining information about or related to a domain name registration record. Name.com LLC does not guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a WHOIS query, you agree that you will use this Data only for lawful purposes and that, under no circumstances will you use this Data to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via e-mail (spam); or (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes that apply to Name.com LLC (or its systems). Name.com LLC reserves the right to modify these terms at any time. By submitting this query, you agree to abide by this policy.

Cached on: 2010-12-12T08:23:53-07:00


******

Domain and hosting services usually have TOS that can cancel clients for illegal activity. They should be informed.

icecube57 said:

OMFG! Hes ripped off so many of our videos and picks. I feel highly violated. He ripped of GIncDC's videos, The ascent and descent video of the Stealth Bomber. Our forum pictures, Docs Videos, Methods Videos,

Click to expand...

The chap has now cleaned up his ebay advert, and removed all the images of other peoples bikes and products from it. He's left method's video, presumably because LFP has relayed that methods isn't bothered about it. He's agreed to remove all the other stuff as well, which presumably means cleaning up the images and videos culled from here that are all over his website.

The indication from his reply to me is that he's reading this thread and getting pretty angry about it. All I can say is that it's wholly his own doing. Raiding this forum for stuff to misuse on adverts for ebike kits was never go to go unnoticed and was bound to stir up a hornets nest of ill feeling. The chap's got no one to blame for the outcome but himself. It reminds me a little of the howls of outrage over Wikileaks, complaining about the revealer of information because the truth revealed is embarrassing is a deflection tactic, nothing more. Had the contentious stuff never been created it wouldn't have been around to cause embarrassment when published.

Jeremy

TD,

I am sure you're right about domain registration stuff. The snag that I can see is that it's a UK company with a US registered domain. My guess is that consumer laws in the two countries will be pretty different, so what's not allowed in the UK may be OK in the US. I've certainly seen lots of US adverts that would never be allowed here, as they'd be in breach of our pretty tough consumer protection laws, but either way it'd be a nightmare to try and work out what bit of law applied where and when.

The chap's said he'll remove the misleading images and video anyway, so by the time any report was made the site may well be OK, as far as the law goes. As someone else has suggested, it never hurts to do some background research on who you're doing business with. This is fairly easy now, thanks to the internet. As another has suggested elsewhere, even something simple, like using Google Earth and Streetview to take a peek at someone's business premises can be informative.

Jeremy

Fortunatly they accepeted to collaboatrate.

Here is what i received from ebay messages:

12-déc.-10 04:43

we are two piratebay enthusiasts promoting green
energy to people, we didn't care how we did it, as
long as it got done.
We'll tow a large car with our ebikes don't worry.
video removed


- com2wdcycleswww

Click to expand...

12-déc.-10 04:44

yes. we know. only problem is we don't believe in
copyright. We will remove the video for you as we
don't want to deter your future builds. Kind
regards. John.

Click to expand...

12-déc.-10 06:15

kindly remove the thread on ES, we are selling
genuine kits, we just don't have the time to make
videos right now as are busy modding kits. sorry for
trouble. regards. John

Click to expand...

12-déc.-10 07:06

Remove the defaming ES thread now!
we're selling real kits that we are modding for
people to enjoy themselves this x-mas, we are
building our own custom controllers, don't attack
two guys starting a green initiative just because
we 'borrowed' your videos please!

I give YOU one HOUR to remove the ES thread
otherwise I will upload all your videos and any
other videos and repost them all onto youtube
under our username forever. your videos will be
MINE then FOR LIFE and any views I get, as I do
not see a copyright.

John

Click to expand...

And my response to that;

John,

What i can do is to post all your reply to my
message on the forum to show you accepted to
collaborate.

I dont appreciate the way you started your
business with stolen videos and picture and we
have all info about you so dont bother us with
menace on youtube. You should remember that it is
you who started that mess not us !

If you wanna keep your 100% feedback dont bother
us and stay clean like everyone else and make
correct business and you'll have succes. Choose
the right way.. it always pay.

Regards




I see this guy seem to collaborate.. but he also seem to want starting war with menace of stoling our video for life....

These guys really dont know us and what we can respond to that... I wish they just realize they should stay clean and quiet instead of trying attacking us.

Ebay seller need solid reputation to have succes..... .....


Respect always pay.


Doc

Nice reply, Doc. I don't take kindly to threats, nor do I like to issue them,

I think these guys are semi-genuine, but very much doubt that anything they are selling is in anyway original or their design. I am particularly suspicious of the claim, quote: "we are building our own custom controllers" as I know first hand just how much technical knowledge is needed to build even a simple BLDC controller.

I'll PM you something you may find interesting re: this business, rather than post it on here, as this chap is reading this thread and I see no point in further antagonising him.

Jeremy