Studded Tires?

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michaelplogue
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by michaelplogue » Dec 28, 2010 11:55 am


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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 29, 2010 10:56 am

First "trial" tire will be placed on front. All reports, and my experience, insist that best traction is needed on the front. If the back tire loses its grip, it is called "fun"! If the front tire ... it is called "ouch!"

Screws should have good wearability on ice and snow, not so good on clear roads. I intend on keeping a spare wheel-tire handy, not a quick change hub, but my practice change time is well under 5 min. If a few changes double the life of my studs, it will be well worth it! (Yes, I do my changes in a nice warm interior area.)

My testbed is an EZip electric bike, it has a, rear, geared external motor, something of a job to swap the tire. Still it is slated for SMS (Sheet Metal Studding), as soon as concept is proven, and stud wear determined.

Also, as studs are becoming "worn" a second ring of fresh studs can be added, ... then, a third! My source for the screws charges $6 shipping for the first 200 screws, but the additional 5 boxes (1000 screws) were free shipping. My prototype used only 100 screws, adding screws to all the inner row of studs will, only, finish off the 1st box.
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 30, 2010 1:31 pm

3/8" screws arrived about 1/2 hr ago. Replaced 50 of them in about 20 min., with a normal screwdriver!

Image

Indeed! The shorter length is almost ideal, for the inner rows!

Image

Now, believe it or not, I have to wait for more snow.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Feb 02, 2016 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 31, 2010 5:28 am

One of my most important requirements was that the screw "heads" should be wide and low profile!

Image

Coarseness and depth of thread also considered!

Image

Depth of point was very important.

Image
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by michaelplogue » Dec 31, 2010 12:26 pm

Just curious -

Are you using any type of glue or epoxy to keep the screws from working their way back inside the tire after prolonged usage? Also, are you using any kind of liner to protect your tube from the screw heads?

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Dec 31, 2010 6:09 pm

michaelplogue wrote:Just curious -

Are you using any type of glue or epoxy to keep the screws from working their way back inside the tire after prolonged usage? Also, are you using any kind of liner to protect your tube from the screw heads?
I specifically used wide head screws, with deep cutting threads.

My first trials will be as is:
Top of screws are wide and smooth, nothing to damage tube, hopefully tube pressure, combined with the grip of the threads will hold them firmly.

Alternatively, I will seat screws with "Loctite PL400" constructive adhesive and cover with multiple layers of duct tape.

But I would rather leave screws, easily replaceable.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
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There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by lifepo4ever » Jan 02, 2011 11:45 pm

i never have problem at all with out the glue and i just change my set up and move the screw from the middle because the outer stud was not touching at all the pavement and there was not grip , i hope this time it will make a good improvement

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Cold-E-Commuter » Jan 04, 2011 8:55 pm

Has anyone tried these yet?
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/ ... e-26-x-175
I ordered a pair and will share my experience as we go.
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Cold-E-Commuter » Jan 06, 2011 11:52 pm

New studded tires arrived today and have been mounted. I love the "White Wall" sides that are reflective. Great for visibility on those cold dark morning commutes.
Studded Tire ES Upload.JPG
(234.63 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
Studded Tire Profile ES Upload.JPG
(213.97 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
Bike Side ES Upload.JPG
(274.55 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
Tomorrow will be the test as the roads here were wet on the ride home and the temp on the morning commute is a projected 11 degrees F.
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Schwalbe Marathon Green Guard tires 26x1.5 at 70 psi

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 09, 2011 9:11 am

Forecast is for daily moderate snow for the entire week.

Prototype tire is mounted and ready. I decided to go with a normal tube, with no extra protection! My reasoning? I searched, specifically, for very wide headed, smooth, sheet metal screws. My "trial" tube was my most worn-damaged, patched twice, it is my sacrificial lamb, sent forth into the hazardous realm. It will be my testbed for the survivability of my design.

Actually, I had planned on slitting tube along the "interior" center, removing the stem and placing good tube inside it. but if I was going to destroy a good tube, why not try it, alone, in my prototype first? If damaged, it could still be used as a "tire liner", afterwords!

Hopefully I will be trekking many miles through snowy-icy roads this week. I'm not yet willing to subject prototype to bare roads. Stay tuned for reports on traction improvement, tube damage, stud wear etc.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Kingfish » Jan 09, 2011 10:42 pm

Much appreciated to the contributors of this thread. Below is a link to a recent review of my purchase.
Studded Tires: Schwalbe Marathon Winter

Thank you, KF :)
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Cold-E-Commuter » Jan 11, 2011 12:35 am

I agree after a few rides that these tires (Schwalbe Marathon Winter) provide excelent traction in a variety of conditions. We have had 6 inches of snow here over the last few days with warmer temps following creating very icy streets. These were "run in" for the required 25 miles on hard surfaces before the weather hit. Once the snow hit I had to get out and try them. Rides included sidewalks where people had walked and created the "patchy" conditions, fresh open snow on the "run off lane" of side streets and down the middle of residential streets where the "slushy" tire paths had been made. These made travel comfortable in all conditions. Regular tires would have created white knuckle riding at best in some of the areas while these rides where confident and comfortable at speeds up to 18 mph. During the "run in' period these were run at 56 psi and lowered to 38 psi in inclimate conditions. The tread pattern when properly mounted for rotating direction seemed counter-intuitive. These leave a "V" mark facing forward as you ride rather than standard "^" pattern as you sit on the bike. But that seems to create a solid stopping experience on snowy streets. Makes sense now that I think of it. Wouldn't you rather have traction issues for acceleration rather than braking in bad conditions? I agree again that these affect the rolling resistance, but a few cents of extra electricity and a slower ride is less expensive than the potential medical bills. I'll let you know more as we go. I did find an interesting review on these that gave a few tips for cornering from someone who races on ice. It basically stated "don't lean the bike like normal. Lean your body to the inside of the corner keeping the bike as upright as possible and use the "steering" of the handle bars to complete the corner.
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 12, 2011 5:05 pm

Got some Snow! - Upstate NY.

Took my first run with my "homemade" studded tire.
Cars keep sliding up to the intersections, but I had no problem. We got about 6" overnight, but still constant light snow.

They use salt here, but it is below 20 F so it won't melt anything.
What it does do is ... make a brownish packed sugar type of "slurry" on top of a very slippery road. The road is warm enough to slightly melt the "slurry" at the contact point. As long as I didn't hit any "slurry" more than 1/2" deep, traction was excellent! Made about a 10 mile run - testing purposes.
Looking good so far!
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
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There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 18, 2011 12:59 am

About 25 miles on my "homemade studded tire" 15 miles on snow-ice and 10 miles on clear road. The sharp points are worn down , on the inner rows, but still present substantial stud contact, (almost 1/8"). Outer rows still are nice and sharp.
I've kept the tire pressure at 65lb, the high tube pressure seems to be keeping the screws firmly seated. On the "straight and level", 2-3 studs are always hitting the road, any slight turn and 2-3 studs contact from 1 of the inner rows. A heavier turn-lean and the outer row joins the inner for a 4-5 stud contact! (Determined by, weight applied, with tire on sheet of paper, on hard surface.) More studs will contact with lower tire pressure, at all angles.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 19, 2011 12:31 am

Great.. I was searching for the 2011 therad of studed tires! :mrgreen:

On my new updated built, i also plan o using stud.. but i hesitate between these great ebay studs ( maxi grip)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Maxi-Gri ... ccessories
Image




and and these KOLD KUTTER

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KOLD-KUT ... 2270wt_939
Image
Image
Image

or the cheapest way of using round head wood screw at the home depot....


I did two great ride of 30km total with my new built with 16" motocross tires on ant surface.. pavement, pavement with ice, snow, slush .. offroad snow , etc at up to 40mph !!! and the rear tire work well without any stud... but curiously, the front tire work nice on pavement with ice or hard snow... but on soft snow like 4 inch thick, it's desactrous.. the front whell slide and encourage the lost of traction control...



Image



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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 19, 2011 12:47 am

I found it can turn out extreme for some people....
:shock:
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-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 19, 2011 1:04 am

I found this great exemple of normal wood screw can do on ice:

This kid seem having fun 8)


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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by MadRhino » Jan 19, 2011 1:16 am

Wow! It looks mad. Lots of batteries too :mrgreen:

The front is always a problem in the snow. To use a slimmer tire than the back works better, riding posture has to be adapted and you will notice a difference already, by simply setting the saddle forward.

I like the cold cutters cause they are cheap and easy, but the very best are still self made. I used Ramset studs but that implies to drill the tire, is long to do and shortens the tire life (3 hours making tires for 2 hours of ice racing). If you want to use plain screws, go for black steel ones, and arc weld a spot of carbide on each of them after they are set. That makes for amazing result on hard surface, they carve into cement. Carbide arc soldering rods are found locally at horse shoers, they use it alot in the winter.

Then, you will notice with try and error, that studs have to match specific use to be really efficient. Short and small for the street, long and big for the snow, medium thin and sharp for the ice... No stud can be all around polyvalent, but studding patterns can make the same stud better to suit specific use.
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 20, 2011 7:03 am

Yeah! More Snow & Ice!
My "homemade" studded tire has about 40 miles on it, unfortunately, only about 15 miles on "Winter" roads. Been clear for the other 25. Stud wear is minimal, the inner rows have had their sharp points dulled, but screws still make nice contact, on the straight, and, wear will decrease as the wider potion of the screw is neared.

I anticipate that my prototype will work nicely on a non-drive wheel. With the Innova tires, the front tire still has noticeable stud protruding, after 200 miles, but the studs on the rear, (pedal & motor driven), are completely worn down. If ridden on clear roads, I could only recommend carbide studs, for the drive wheel.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
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There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

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Damnable Salt!

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 21, 2011 12:32 pm

Damn street dept. layed down a heavy dose of salt, yesterday. It dropped below 0* F, last night, and at noon it is almost 10* F. We picked up about 6" of snow, overnight, and presently there is 1" to 2" of salt-snow on the streets.

Salt is not effective below about 20* F. However, at road contact, residual warmth creates a thin layer of partially melted salt-snow, which causes the brownish packed salt-snow above it to slip and slide. I'm trying to explain the present road surface because it is the only type that my studded tire doesn't seem to help much with.

Rode to the bank this morning, too stressful! I came back on the sidewalk, varied 6" snow, ice, footprints, ruts, driveways etc. Much less stressful than salt-snow!
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Cold-E-Commuter » Jan 25, 2011 11:45 pm

The conditions here 2 days ago were the worst I have been in yet. We had a rain/snow mix in the morning followed by above freezing temperatures for a few hours. By the time I was ready to ride home the temp had dropped to below freezing leaving "pebbled" ice or flat "black ice" on the streets. I was absolutly certain I was going to spill it a few times on the 9 mile ride home. After a mile or so of testing the traction on the Schwalbe Marathon Winters I was completely suprised. The only thing that made it uncomfortable were the constant 25-30 mph cross-head winds. I thought I would be blown off the road on such icy streets. Studded tires can save your bacon if you use home made or purchased factory made studded tires. Happy and safe riding to all of you that get out there in the winter.
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 06, 2011 3:13 pm

150 miles with my home made studded tires, still plenty of stud left! ... :mrgreen:

As I walk my bike on dry pavement, the studs still produce a noticeable bounce as they hit the road. Since they are off center and without weight, they must make a good impression when actually ridden. I've maintained full pressure (65lb). Lowering pressure would make a stronger impression, on the "straight", but seems unnecessary ... yet!
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 17, 2011 1:10 pm

Close to 300 miles on my homemade studded tire.
Still works great.

Spring fever hit me, it's 50* right now!
Double wide driveway is super smooth ice, with water on top.
Bike handled it nicely, till I gave the motorized rear wheel a spin, went down fast, but I was expecting it, got a little wet tho...

It appears that my design is a success.
Certainly better than the other designs I've run into, a lot cheaper too!
Of course I will "tinker", better tires, better screws, more screws etc.

Check back with me next Fall.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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PS

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 26, 2011 11:53 am

We just got a heavy cold snow. Road is covered with packed snow, (snow plows must have been packed away.) Just for fun I decided to replace my center screws, not so long any more. The problem I noticed was that the occasional screw showed a bit of rust, inside tire, underneath screw. Prolonged winter weather might damage tube, so my replacement screws received a a dbl layer of plastic boxing tape, to keep rust away from tube.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Kingfish » Sep 22, 2011 7:47 pm

Time to start thinking about Ol’ Man Winter again.

I have a pair of Schwalbe Marathon Winter that I used last year. Problem is now I am running wider rims with 2.5-inch Hookworms. My recent search I hasn't found much in the way of a studded fatty tire. Best example that I could get locally is the Nokian Hakka SW300 Studded Tire at 2.2 inches; a little skinny for the front Mavic ES729 Disc rim, but I bet I could get it to work. The rear is 24-inch Kris Holm rim and here I am screwed cos it’s hard enough to find a studded tire in 24-inch, let alone one that is wide. Nokian makes the MOUNT & GROUND W144 for a 24-inch but it’s only 1.9 inches wide.
http://www.suomityres.fi/h300.html

Shifting gears and trying to scare up new ideas, I thought about using studded motorcycle tires – but damned if I can find street-versions of ice tires.

With less than 6 weeks till November 1st, Time is getting short and I’ll need to choose. :roll:
~KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

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