Studded Tires?

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Kingfish » Oct 04, 2011 10:21 pm

I found a couple more candidates for winter. These tires would need to be studded to work. I am curious if anyone has tried to stud these using the proper tools and studs; I’m not interested in using screws. I scanned through many models to try and find tires that had:
  1. Big blocks to retain the studs
  2. 24” and 26” diameter x 2.5” wide
  3. 60 Durometer
I wasn’t entirely successful – but I came up close with these:
Again, has anyone tried to stud these tires or know anything about them? :)

Thanks, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Kingfish » Oct 06, 2011 10:37 pm

Peter White Cycles does a good write-up on Nokian & Schwalbe Studded Tires.

Another studded candidate:
Spike Claw - The MTB tire for true Vikings ! 26 x 2,1 8)

Still searching, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by kold kanuck » Oct 06, 2011 11:47 pm

Don't know if its been tried with bike tires but to build ice racing tire we run an inner liner cut from an old tire and run the screws(kold kuuter type that doc posted) through the lug and into the liner. This gives the screw more bite and less chance of ripping out. Makes for a heavy tire but great traction.
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so you can dress like this
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and do things like this
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by kafka-cloud » Oct 07, 2011 6:58 am

I got myself a pair of schwalbe ice spiker for the winter.

Although I did speak with a 20 years + bike which bikes al year round for most of these. He said that The wider tire have a lot of flotation. He would recommend something like the nordic spike continental on 700x42 because of potential flotation with the wider tire.

anyway cheers and good winter riding ;)

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Kingfish » Oct 20, 2011 12:22 pm

Once again I have narrowed my search.

For the rear tire, I settled on the Panaracer Fire FR 24" x 2.4 (black wall). Related ES thread here: Best dual-purpose mtb/street tire??? Being 24-inch there isn’t much choice for studded tires, however there should be enough meat in the knobs to allow some manual studding.

Front tire has proven very difficult to source a wide tire. Without going nuts over studs (and considering the use is mostly urban) I came up with four choices:
  • Innova Studded Tire 26x2.1, Wire Bead
  • Continental Spike Claw Studded Tire 26x2.1 (120 or 240 studded options)
  • Nokian Extreme 294 26x2.1
  • Schwalbe Schwalbe Ice Spiker HS 33 26x2.1 Wire Beaded, Reflex
I am not concerned about cost.

Another studded tire review: Tires for ICEBIKING

Still looking, but not for much longer.
~KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Kingfish » Oct 27, 2011 10:00 pm

Update: Purchased the front studded tire this evening.

Image

Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro Evolution Winter MTB Folding Tire 60-559 (26 x 2,35) for 62,94€ + 19,95€ for shipping to the United States from Bike24.Net in Dresden, Germany. The checkout went swimmingly well and was followed by a very interesting long legal contract ~ the likes of which I’ve never seen appended to a receipt. No worries. :)

This will be an aggressive winter setup: 26x2.35 studded wide up front and 24x2.4 knobby on the back. I’ll probably have to add the 15S4P saddle bag to cover the drop in battery economy. Then again – if Seattle ever got more than 3” of snow the city would shut down. Actually it just about shuts down with 1” on the ground :roll: :lol:

Anyone else order/mount up their winter wares?

Git'n ready to tear arse, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Kinaye MotorSports
* Primary ride: 2WD Disc 9C 2806-equiv / Dual Lyen 12FET / 20S7P LiPo.
* Epics: Going to California: 2011 8)
* 50-mph, 101, 10k-Club. 12,527 miles-to-date, 7037 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Hugues » Oct 27, 2011 11:28 pm

Here in Switzerland I'm about to install two Schwalbe Marathon Winter, not so much for the snow yet but got icy roads in the morning.

Reviews are very good :
http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/1788

Seems you can increase the pressure so the spikes don't become too noisy when the roads are dry .

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 28, 2011 2:48 am

Gettin' ready for Winter.
Fortunately, the EZip front brakes are adjustable, for 1.5 wheels, (rear requires 1.75 rim width.)
So I grabbed a pair of spares and mounted my homemade studded on one and left a standard Mountain tread, on the other.
3/4 of last Winter had clear roads, causing unneeded wear on my steel studs.
This year, I intend to swap wheels, dependent on conditions and weather reports.

Might do the same with rear wheels.
I got rear wheel swap time to less than 5 min!
Motor-drive wheel, chews up steel studs, only using studded drive wheel, when needed, might get me through a Winter on one set of studs.
Yes, I store my bike in a heated environ.
Important to aclimatize bike, to cold, before taking into snow!
Snow melts on warm wheels, then freezes - makes brakes very ... unreliable ...
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Dec 06, 2011 3:29 am

Here is another screw-in type stud, they are recommended for everything from your shoes to MTB tires, and have carbide inserts in the steel bodied studs. :)

http://gripstuds.com/index.html

Image Image
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Hugues » Dec 06, 2011 2:47 pm

cool, thanks for the link, i like that,

a bit expensive, but as they are in the screw-in business... :)
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Dec 06, 2011 8:01 pm

Hugues wrote:cool, thanks for the link, i like that,

a bit expensive, but as they are in the screw-in business... :)
ROFLOL!! :lol: :lol:

That is true, but at least they aren't as expensive as Nokian or Schwalbe replacement studs! SHEESH! :shock: :roll: :P
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Hugues » Dec 06, 2011 10:37 pm

LI-ghtcycle wrote:
Hugues wrote:cool, thanks for the link, i like that,

a bit expensive, but as they are in the screw-in business... :)
ROFLOL!! :lol: :lol:

That is true, but at least they aren't as expensive as Nokian or Schwalbe replacement studs! SHEESH! :shock: :roll: :P
can you buy Schwalbe replacement studs ?
My vendor told me they don't sell any ?
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Dec 07, 2011 1:20 am

Well, they are listed on the Schwalbe USA site or the main Euro site, lemme find it again ... but they are $16 per stud or package not sure which ... :shock: :oops:
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Dec 07, 2011 1:36 am

Here ya go, not sure how this relates to what your supplier can buy, but here it is for the USA site at least:

http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/3673

Oh and it's $18.85 USD for a bag of 12 studs.

However, I have had a real hard time just finding someone who would be able to get the tires locally, so maybe it's a on-line only thing.

Pretty ridiculous to not be able to buy replacement studs!

There has to be a way.
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by Hugues » Dec 07, 2011 6:42 am

thanks

not cheap, for that price they could have put a diamond on the tip, :D

joke aside, i think the screw-in type shown above would stay on the tire a little longer than the Schwalbe type, i.e. just inserted under the rubber.

Of course for the screw-in you need to have the appropriate thickness of the rubber...but they might be also a bit easier and faster to install than the Schwalbe. I tried to replace a few on my first Schwalbe defective tire, and i could not imagine myself having to replace many every week. Real PITA. Let's hope they stay there the little bastards. But one day, and no later than next spring, they will see some rough trails again, and that's gonna be the REAL LIFE test. I did not buy studs on a mountain bike tire just to ride on paved roads. :twisted:
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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Dec 07, 2011 12:19 pm

Hugues wrote:thanks

not cheap, for that price they could have put a diamond on the tip, :D

joke aside, i think the screw-in type shown above would stay on the tire a little longer than the Schwalbe type, i.e. just inserted under the rubber.

Of course for the screw-in you need to have the appropriate thickness of the rubber...but they might be also a bit easier and faster to install than the Schwalbe. I tried to replace a few on my first Schwalbe defective tire, and i could not imagine myself having to replace many every week. Real PITA. Let's hope they stay there the little bastards. But one day, and no later than next spring, they will see some rough trails again, and that's gonna be the REAL LIFE test. I did not buy studs on a mountain bike tire just to ride on paved roads. :twisted:
I hear ya! I have modified a pair of old needle-nose pliers to act as a tool to stretch open the hole in the tire to drop in the studs, and I have been told that other than the tire material being softer, the only real difference between a tire designed for studs and one that isn't is a "blind hole" meaning just a normal straight hole in the rubber that is made for that purpose.

I have successfully inserted a automotive stud into a motorcycle tire's knobby and had it stay in for years, and so I believe it's a sound practice to just spread open the hole with a pair of pliers and force the stud in.

If I were to do it again, I would probably take a pair of snap ring pliers cheap from Harbor Freight or other discount tool store, and grind or file down the ends to make a shape that will make spreading open the blind hole easier.

I can take some pics of the tool I made if you're interested.
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 13, 2012 8:38 pm

Finally got my Winter bike out.
2008 EZip Mountain Trailz
37V 21AH pack, in insulated lunch bag.
Homemade studded, on the front, I did mount up a used, "real" studded tire, a Klondike XT, on the rear, still has sharp carbide studs.
Will monitor-compare, and report usability-durability, for both.

Lubed axles, gears, chains, etc, every thing looks good, except the oem 7spd freewheel, sounds a little "gritty".

Starts it's 3rd Winter with 3517 miles on it, all run at 37V.

Got the first snow ... that stuck ... finally.
Mid January before the first snow!
No ... I'm not complaining ... !
Got about 6", and temperature is in the teens F.


Rather than swapping tires, for clear roads, I'll keep a second bike, tuned up, ready to go.
Might use that more, hard to tell, with this crazy weather.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 04, 2012 7:32 am

Home made studded tire works great, the little, I've had enough snow, to use it.
The Klondike XT does not seem to work as well, "on street".
The studs are shorter and the tire is wider, 2.125" w/ carbide studs.
My homemade is a 1.95, that I recently, transferred , from a "1.75" wheel, to a "1.5" wheel.
It seems that the "thinner" tire, cuts through the surface snow, and grips the underlying road, much better!
Of course, the longer screws, should have an advantage on anything except bare ice - till they wear down.

Strangely, I'm not anxious ... for more snow?
Guess I've gotten old enough, I've developed, the patience, to wait for next Winter ... Image
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by ohzee » Feb 04, 2012 11:07 am

Yea I have not even had the chance to use my 150$ snow tires as of yet.. Some strange weather we are having I honestly
think winter just has not shown up yet and when it does .. well I hope it dumps I want snow or nice riding weather.
I hope we don't have a long winter , but until It seems like it starts I'm not sure.

Glad your tires are working out well for you.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 11, 2012 11:06 am

Yippee ... ? Snow!
Cold moved in , and brought a little snow ... few inches, over next 2 days.
Gonna be below freezing, for the next few days, 10's and 20's at night.
The January snow only lasted a couple days .. melted off quickly!
This, February snow, should last, at least 1 week, before "forecast", predicts another warm front.

So ... my blacktopped River Trail should have a nice layer of fluffy snow, on the sunny, next Monday. (About 10 miles, mostly, winding through forest.)
Could be my most enjoyable Winter adventure ... this year, anyway ...

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A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by oldswamm » Feb 14, 2012 1:28 pm

Just thought I'd post a pic of what I've been running this winter. Someone mentioned these screws, but I don't think they posted a picture. The cutting bit is harder than wood screws.
studs.jpg
studs.jpg (94.35 KiB) Viewed 2076 times
I searched ebay pix and bought the largest headed, smooth edged screws I could find in 1/2" length. I have 42 (~2") in the front and 105 in the rear (~3/4") (more next winter, mostly to distribute the load).

I make a hole from the outside with an ice pick, then I PUSH the screw in, in an effort to avoid cutting any chords. The threads don't provide much grip. I just screw it in till it's all the way against, don't spin it. I then run 60#+ pressure, and 2 extra tubes as liners.
I've run Kold Kutters in ATVs and motorcycles with excellent results, and tried them in my bicycle, but couldn't keep them. The tires were to soft and thin.

Our roads are ice all winter, so I seldom ride on pavement even crossing the road.
Problems? More than a few inches of snow becomes a problem (I can carry it out, unlike the snogo and ATV riders). I ride the local ungroomed snogo trails, and the front tire tends to follow ski tracks in loose snow. Not at all sure more studs would help much. On ice the front has enough traction to almost lift the rear tire when braking. To much throttle will lift pressure from the front and it slides (same as in summer). The studs, coat, and snow pants, but especially deep snow REALLY draw current. Riding trails I occasionally use more than 100wh/mi.

I rode to and from the post office (5mi) a few days ago, on ice with drifts of 2" or so. I had no trouble at speeds over 20mph in spite of 30mph+ crosswinds with 50mph+ gusts. I was leaning at maybe 20 degrees at times, but had no problems (I stayed on the downwind side of the road, though).

I didn't fall once all winter! When riding that is.
Bob

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 14, 2012 2:40 pm

Think I found the screws you used.
Please post link, if different.

1/2" Phillip self-tapping Screws
Sef-drill.JPG
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A little too long, for my street use, not enough snow-ice, this year.
3/8" would be perfect, or thicker tires ... could grind them down ... ?
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by oldswamm » Feb 14, 2012 3:58 pm

Took me a while to find it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0562815842
I think they might be slightly larger diameter (not to mention the difference in price).
I used to have a gadget for sharpening snogo spike style studs, but couldn't find it when I looked for this project. Grinding them before installation might reduce the likelihood of cord damage (don't get them hot).
Bob

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by DrkAngel » Feb 15, 2012 10:10 am

oldswamm wrote:Took me a while to find it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0562815842
Grinding them before installation might reduce the likelihood of cord damage (don't get them hot).
Bob
Ordered up a batch - great price.

They appear to have, some form of, hardened, chrome steel, electro-plating?
If so, any grinding would reduce initial "bite" and durability.
If I cannot find a tire of ideal thickness, I will consider adding a tire liner, as a method of attaining "ideal" "stud" protrusion. 3/4" "washers" made from innertube might be much easier ... finding pre-poked holes.

Will make up a couple ... prototypes, and post pictures.
Nice to have, in case we ... ever ... get some Winter weather.
I have several spare ATB tread tires, I replaced Mountain Trailz tires with more "road-worthy".

While giving great stability, the large heads might work best with larger tires.
I recommend thinner tires for typical "snow on road" use.
Large tires with long studs would be recommended for trails, heavy, packed snow on roads etc.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

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Re: Studded Tires?

Post by oldswamm » Feb 15, 2012 1:58 pm

The plating is just zinc. Disappears in the first 1/4 mi. :)
Grinding shouldn't hurt the hardness as long as you don't get the screw hot. I can't imagine them being surface hardened.

A liner made from a the tread of a smooth thin tire just enough smaller than the outer one would be ideal (so it fit tight, but didn't 'bunch'), if you could hit the holes (should be feasible). Innertube washers would have to be thick to effectively shorten the screws, which would put pressure 'spots' on the functioning tubes, and would probably allow excess movement at the screw/tube interface (when they pivot (under torque), they would pivot at the cord). That rocking is what causes the tube damage, not the radial (vertical?) motion (IMHO that is). The inner tire idea would give 2 cords separated by the thickness of the inner tire, which might almost eliminate that problem. Maybe I'll try and do that for the studs down the middle, and leave the outer (longer) ones between the tires (next winter). Long outer ones to help climb out of ruts and recover from skids, and shorter ones down the middle to reduce noise, tube and tire wear, and for a better ride.

When I tried to run a single liner with this setup, the philips socket, as well as the edges of the head wore through to the tube in around 10mi. High pressure and lots of baby powder, as well as a second liner were my attempt to solve the problem. Will post pix when I take them off in a month or so (or sooner if I have another flat).
(Our average temp for Nov/Dec/Jan was about -20F, and being something of a wimp in my old age I only put a little over 100mi on them.)
Now that spring is here, I'm riding more, and that oftentimes on pavement (as of yesterday), so now is when the stud torture begins. :wink:
Bob

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