Quest for "super stealth"

[Drunkskunk]

The catch in making it stealth is hiding the battery. I'd really like the battery in the triangle for weight distribution but it's pretty obvious there.

It doesn't have to be obious. A frame bag looks perfectly normal there. Its a harder trick to hide the controller. But the thing that attracts attention is anything that looks hand made, or has wires sticking out of it.

[cell_man]

They are not Bafang hub motors - both are 350W geared hub motor kits from cell_man who is a member of ES. They are rated for 36V but seem to be OK at a nominal 44V (12s LiPo).

Ah, ok. Dug around on cell_man's thread in for sale. They appear to be Cute QR-100 I was looking at Cute motors as they are very light but was put off by warnings of unreliability. I'm also a bit bothered that the axle doesn't go right through but is 2 piece. None of this may be a problem.

They are not Ananda/Cute motors.

[ChinaPhil]

I always carry batteries (4 off 6s 5,000mAh 25C) in a backpack, easy to hear the LV buzzers.

Just climbed some 15% inclines and the speed is higher than the 500W Cyclone bike with all of its gearing - guess 15km/h versus less than 10 km/h - the inclines are narrow so there is no time to look at speed readouts.

At this stage I am content with the visual stealth, audible stealth, hill climbing ability and top speed.

[cell_man]

Hi Phil,

That sounds pretty good, those figures aren't bad at all. Who would believe it, a couple of hub motors can beat a non hub setup on an incline I recently supplied a dual Mac setup, both were low speed winds, about 200rpm loaded at 36V, so no faster than your setup. Difference is the rear is running a 500W Mac and the Front a 350W Mac, 12 fet (about 40A) infineon on the rear and a 9 Fet (30A) on the front. Should make for an interesting ride at 48V.

How did you get on with the throttle? Are you still using 1 throttle for each controller or have you tried the mod'd throttles I sent you to run both controllers simultaneously?

Cheers
Paul

[ChinaPhil]

Will try one throttle as soon as possible and maybe fit a switch to give one throttle or two. At the moment I have the front wheel throttle on the right and the rear on the left to match the braking.

[cell_man]

Sorry Phil,

don't want to get personal but how heavy are you? The bike and battery pack is what, somewhere between 25 & 30kg? It's just good to have some figures in mind, unfortunately there are no hills around here to check the hill climbing ability.

Cheers
Paul

[ChinaPhil]

Paul,

it is a good job that we both live in the East where this sort of question is the norm. I am 95kg fully dressed, so a total of 125kg sounds about right. And, before you ask, I was born in the year of the rat.

Phil

[GrayKard]

Hi Phil,

That sounds pretty good, those figures aren't bad at all. Who would believe it, a couple of hub motors can beat a non hub setup on an incline

People are starting to see the the advantages of dual hubs. Set up right it's really hard to beat.

I'm liking the stealth you have going on there Phil, nice looking bike. I still plan on doing more to hide my controllers and wiring to try and achieve super stealth status.

Gary

[ChinaPhil]

Just been out on a ride with one throttle driving both controllers. Now I can't decide which I prefer, one or two throttles. Suspect that for audio stealth two throttles are better as only one motor can be used but, for steep hill climbing, when I am just trying to hang on, one throttle is best. Tending to think that a switch to select 1 or 2 throttles is the way forward.

[MadRhino]

J...Tending to think that a switch to select 1 or 2 throttles is the way forward.

Why not one throttle, with a switch to select 1 or 2 WD

[dogman]

My inclination would be 1 throttle, and a simple switch to cut it off to the rear controller. Ride front hub till you need more, then switch on the rear.

Actually, two switches would be neat too, so you could run front only or back only. Why? so you could cool a hot motor, and run on the other awhile at your choice. So on a really long trip, you could alternate which motor every 30 min or so keeping em nice and cool for miles and miles.

[ChinaPhil]

Found that the supplied throttles are too visible, especially at night with 3 lights per throttle (the red button is for cruise control):

DSC_2510 throttles.jpg (83.22 KiB) Viewed 297 times

so I have removed them and fitted one no bells/whistles 3 wire throttle.
As the controllers are connected to the battery via a "Y" lead I do not connect power to the front hub motor controller when I want one wheel drive. I really do not mind the delay before 2 WD can be engaged but should get a handle on the efficiency of this bike's drive permutations before making a final wiring decision - CA time!

[ChinaPhil]

Dogman and MadRhino,

you really made me think, thank you. I liked the idea of 2 switches, one to select rear WD and the second for front WD so, I used 2 cheap bicycle lights (just removed the batteries and accessed the button switches:

DSC_2513 twin lights.jpg (79.52 KiB) Viewed 281 times

Visually it just looks like 2 lights, "switch on" the left for rear WD, right for front WD and both for 2 WD. Now I just need to get power to the 2 sets of LEDs.

[miuan]

My inclination would be 1 throttle, and a simple switch to cut it off to the rear controller. Ride front hub till you need more, then switch on the rear. Actually, two switches would be neat too, so you could run front only or back only. Why? so you could cool a hot motor, and run on the other awhile at your choice. So on a really long trip, you could alternate which motor every 30 min or so keeping em nice and cool for miles and miles.

Actually, on my dual 9c setup, I prefer to always run both hubs except when I want to save energy on slower straights. I have dual switches, one of them wired to an ebrake rather than power, because the controller needs to power the single throttle (remain ON) all the time.
Switching to a "cooler" motor is not a good idea IMO. I'd rather have both motors on, instead of putting high load into a single motor...

[SamTexas]

Interesting set up, Phil.

One naive question for you and Paul: I know that the controller has a 17A limit, so definitely insufficient to provide power for both hubs. But if it was a 34A controller, could it be used to power and control both hubs?

Sam

[Drunkskunk]

Interesting set up, Phil.

One naive question for you and Paul: I know that the controller has a 17A limit, so definitely insufficient to provide power for both hubs. But if it was a 34A controller, could it be used to power and control both hubs?

Sam

No.

You couldn't use 1 distributor to run 2 gas engines, you can't use 1 controller to run 2 motors.

[ChinaPhil]

Actually, on my dual 9c setup, I prefer to always run both hubs except when I want to save energy on slower straights.

This is how I am now riding, normally both hubs but only the rear when I want to ride as quietly as possible. Must get some instrumentation to see which is the most efficient one hub motor or two.

Interesting set up, Phil.

One naive question for you and Paul: I know that the controller has a 17A limit, so definitely insufficient to provide power for both hubs. But if it was a 34A controller, could it be used to power and control both hubs?

Sam

No.

You couldn't use 1 distributor to run 2 gas engines, you can't use 1 controller to run 2 motors.

The controllers are small and I prefer some redundancy so I have not considered one controller - leave it to the gurus to say whether one controller will work.

[SamTexas]

No.

You couldn't use 1 distributor to run 2 gas engines, you can't use 1 controller to run 2 motors.

Of course it's possible with 2 identical brushed motors. What I would like to know is why it might be a problem with identical brushless motors. Appears to be HAL synchronization related.

[ChinaPhil]

A couple of videos (I hope):

cows, dogs and people do not notice the approach:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1grWWx0H0s

mountain path:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDm7lIHih8U

[SamTexas]

cows, dogs and people do not notice the approach:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1grWWx0H0s

Thanks for sharing. Is this Hong Kong? I've never seen it from this angle. Are cows allowed in residential area?

[ChinaPhil]

SamTexas,

the cows are free to roam where they want, villagers fence their crops to prevent bovine destruction.

Phil