Homemade Battery Packs

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.

Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby JoramsWeapon » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:38 pm

DrkAngel wrote:
JoramsWeapon wrote:The packs I had used silicone wire at 14ga. Each brick was 5S 5.7ah 20C, 12 of those bricks were arranged as 10S6P. I'm counting by lipo brick not cell, but yes 60 individual cells total. Each brick had trouble delivering 10amps, I got about 3/4 capacity on the discharge but the amount of heat generated was alarming. Even so I figured that in 6P configuration the bricks would hold together fairly well under ebike conditions, failed miserably. I actually did the same thing you're doing now by stuffing them into an Ezip case, everything was cool until I hit the throttle :roll: .
The batteries that managed to survive that quick run now power my laptop for many hours, a much more sensible application i think :D .

Big question!
How did you manage to fit 60 cells into an Ezip case, when I can barely squeeze in 30, of the same size cells?


Easy! Two cases 8) . Was a real tight fit though, barely had room for a little foam padding. I also sliced the cases' innards up quite a bit by getting rid of that middle portion and its attached threads with a rotary tool, the pack was so much lighter than the SLA's I didn't think I'd need all 5 screws. I had removed the SLA charging port and ran the charging leads and balance wires out that exit. If I had the opportunity to do it again I'd fill the case with LiMn Konions, you could easily cram over a hundred cells in there and still have some room to spare and you'd save the hassle of having to solder in balance wires.
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Laptop-Lipo Recycled pack

Postby DrkAngel » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:56 pm

Sorry ... I never posted my Laptop Lipo recycled pack. (EZip 10ah SLA original case)
84 - 2160mah lipo cells, oem configured in 11.1v "6-packs".
7S12P 3.7v - 7Series 12Parallel
25.9v - 25.92ah pack

Laptop Lipo.JPG
Laptop Lipo.JPG (52.89 KiB) Viewed 3415 times


On the side, are 12 separated cells, which make up the 7th bank.
Balance-equalization plug sets flush to side, but extends, when needed.
Black plastic "shelves" were cut from a plastic tub, and were added to support-protect cells.

Clear "boxing" tape used to keep "unruly" wires, "in their place".
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There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
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Homemade Lipo Battery Packs

Postby DrkAngel » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:48 pm

Also built a 37V 25.92Ah Pack (.96Kwh)
And packed it into an innocuous 6pack cooler.

37v1kw_2.JPG
37v1kw_2.JPG (86.4 KiB) Viewed 2823 times

Since I have no 10S balance charger, pack is connected, and charged, through a 37V PCB, via my old style connector.
Connected to controller by standard 2 prong AC connector.

37v1kw_3.JPG
37v1kw_3.JPG (87.55 KiB) Viewed 2823 times

Pack is made up of 120 - 2.160mAh Lithium-ion Polymer cells.

37v1kw_4.JPG
37v1kw_4.JPG (83.97 KiB) Viewed 2822 times

Cells on the right, under black tape, are 12 cells connected in parallel to add 10th bank.
Black tube, on bottom contains a moderate 30amp fuse.
Cells are stabilized with a 7/16 waferboard base, and surrounded by a fairly solid cardboard, which allows easier insertion-removal from 6pack bag.
Tinned copper braid works excellently with these cells.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
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There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby TonyReynolds » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:26 pm

"Cool Cell"

What a wonderful visual pun!

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Third Build: 2012 Marin Muirwoods 4130 Cromoly, 7 speed 11/32 with 500/1000W MAC geared rear motor, 48V System, 52V, 11.5Ah 16s5p A123 lifepo4 triangle battery, DP CA; 20-30+ MPH... GRIN! Build Thread: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33819
cell_man... Supplier of A123 Cells and MAC Hub Motors: http://www.emissions-free.com/id47.html
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby justadad1957 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:14 pm

the tinned copped braid looks like it can take some amps
keep your tire pressure gauge outta there
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby DrkAngel » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:48 am

justadad1957 wrote:the tinned copped braid looks like it can take some amps
keep your tire pressure gauge outta there

Folding cardboard closed, protects wiring nicely.
But, my pressure gauge, CO2 pump, patch kit etc. all have non-conductive surfaces.
Plenty of room inside for charger & tool bag etc.
Also, the lower zipper "expands" the bag to add an extra couple inches, for more storage space.
(Fake lunch items ... etc.)
Total weight about 13lb.

Bonus:
NY & PA (USA)
Valu Home Center - a chain of hardware stores - has a nice allen wrench set for $1!
It covers all the EZip-IZip allen fittings.
It has a blue plastic body.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby Starson » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:03 pm

Wouln't a 6 pack cooler bag be insulated and trap any heat generated and ruin the batteries? Also, it may look inoccuous, but I'd be worried that instead of someone looking to steal batteries, kids & cops would be looking for the beer, except for Yogi Bear of course, who likes to steal the "picinic baskets".

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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby DrkAngel » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:34 pm

Starson wrote:Wouln't a 6 pack cooler bag be insulated and trap any heat generated and ruin the batteries? Also, it may look inoccuous, but I'd be worried that instead of someone looking to steal batteries, kids & cops would be looking for the beer, except for Yogi Bear of course, who likes to steal the "picinic baskets".

Gary

I've never had any heat problems with Lipo or Li-ion.
Of course I rarely exceed 1C, more common is .3 - .5C.

Li-ion Lipo seem not to heat, during charge or discharge, unless "pushed" beyond, "recommended".
I've run this 37v pack for a steady 2 hours, and felt no noticeable heat.
Oddly, Lipo and Li-ion seem to output better when warmer. However, warmer while charging is bad!
Bag is nice for Winter, Li-ion - Lipo, are degraded by the cold, retaining ambient heat is a nice plus.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby DrkAngel » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:46 pm

Starson wrote:Wouln't a 6 pack cooler bag be insulated and trap any heat generated and ruin the batteries? Also, it may look inoccuous, but I'd be worried that instead of someone looking to steal batteries, kids & cops would be looking for the beer, except for Yogi Bear of course, who likes to steal the "picinic baskets".

Gary

If I use my "6-Packer" on a front hub bike, I'll mount it between the bars and suspension fork.
No long wires to be broken , or spotted!

Of course I might have a partial, clear, water bottle, sticking out the edge.
As camo ...
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby DrkAngel » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:48 pm

Great new price on, 1-8S Lipo Battery Tester Low Voltage Buzzer Alarm. $3.29 w/shipping
Half the price of previous best price! I ordered another 5.

Displays total voltage and well as that of individual cell-bank.
Programmable low voltage alarm, audio-visual. (2.7-3.8v)

1-8S Lipo Battery Tester Low Voltage Buzzer Alarm RC 1S - $3.29 w/shipping

1S-8S.JPG
1S-8S.JPG (149.24 KiB) Viewed 1134 times
$3.29
Note: Claims accurate to within 1/100th Volt, actual, from several, is a few 100ths.
Total voltage accurate, cell accuracy varies.

I use one as an "on bar" volt-fuel gauge. Rigged into throttle, (voltage to battery level leds).
Up to 30v 1S meter, just attach to neg - pin 1 and pin 2.
Use multiple to monitor, larger than, 8S packs.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:07 pm, edited 6 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby SamTexas » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:51 pm

Good price.
Can you turn it off or is it always on once connected to the battery pack?
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby DrkAngel » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:11 pm

SamTexas wrote:Good price.
Can you turn it off or is it always on once connected to the battery pack?

No switch.
Put a switch on pin #1, (neg), shuts it off.
Or ... unplug from balance connector.
Or ... Leave plugged in, might use 1 watt ...
error ".24% per day, that is 400+ days on a 10ah pack." error

OOPS! 1 watt usage ... more like 240 hours ... Sorry!
Watt usage should be, much, less than that, but don't have instruments that sensitive.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:18 am, edited 4 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby Ypedal » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:13 am

400 days, on a fully charged 10ah pack... :wink:
ES site status page, for when "things" happen...
http://www.ypedal.com/ES/ES.htm
----------------
Always Staying Busy !!
http://www.ypedal.com/Projects.htm
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby HumboldtRc » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:25 pm

Damm, so I guess I don't have to worry about my 20ah 6s lipo pack.

It would take 800 days to discharge it.... The only way I will ever go without riding my mountainboard that long is if I'm dead, or in jail.... :lol:
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby DrkAngel » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:14 pm

Sorry! My numbers were off!
Doing a test now, might be a couple days before accurate results.

Preliminary results:
8 hours;
Seems to draw power from S1-S2 only.
4.32ah cells down .02v. (Meter not 1/1000 capable, might be .011 to .029)
Will revise at 24 hour mark.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby neptronix » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:37 pm

They generally all do that.
The celllog 8s draws power from 6 of 8 cells, but can be modified to draw from all 8. May be an interesting alternative.

The problem with these units is that you have to repeatedly connect and disconnect them if you don't want them killing your first couple cells. Same problem with 95% of the BMSes on the market out there.

This is why i prefer to use LVC on my controller. I am surprised that nobody has came up with a standalone LVC unit that uses a DC-DC converter to power it.
ES facebook group: http://facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_125035107565566&ap=1

The all-arounder: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The girlfriend bike: 350W front MAC on a 700c Trek.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB
The Bus: ??? on a 'da bomb' cargo bike frame

Pro-tips for noobs: Avoid BMS Battery like the plague | Charge RC Lipos to 4.15v, stop discharging at 3.5-3.6v | Use torque plates/arms! | Rear mounted hubs are always best
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby DrkAngel » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:49 am

1-8S Lipo Battery Tester Low Voltage Buzzer Alarm
24hr report:
4.32ah battery
Drained .1v - 24 hours
Draws power from S1 and S2 only
.1v might not seem like much, but that is more than 10% capacity of 2 banks, which would lower entire pack usable by 10%
Of course, with a 20ah pack, that would be a mere 2% per day ...

Still, I would have to recommend, that item should be used only during pack usage, or to check pack occasionally.

A switch or momentary contact button, on neg pin, would easy on-off or allow quick check.

1-8S Lipo Battery Tester Low Voltage Buzzer Alarm RC 1S - $3.29 w/shipping
Attachments
1~8Sdoc.jpg
1~8Sdoc.jpg (86.17 KiB) Viewed 2092 times
Last edited by DrkAngel on Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby neptronix » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:24 pm

Negative pin would still allow for a bit of draw. The question is, how much.
I know you haven't been on ES too long, but i have seen the negative pin thing not work many times in a lot of threads.

Real unfortunate. We need a BMS or LVC unit that only turns on *when the bike power is on!!!*, novel concept right?

This is why i gave up on the idea of constant per cell level LVC / monitoring early into my build. So i just chop a little voltage off the top and bottom of my charges.
ES facebook group: http://facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_125035107565566&ap=1

The all-arounder: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The girlfriend bike: 350W front MAC on a 700c Trek.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB
The Bus: ??? on a 'da bomb' cargo bike frame

Pro-tips for noobs: Avoid BMS Battery like the plague | Charge RC Lipos to 4.15v, stop discharging at 3.5-3.6v | Use torque plates/arms! | Rear mounted hubs are always best
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby Floont » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:46 pm

DrkAngel wrote:1-8S Lipo Battery Tester Low Voltage Buzzer Alarm
24hr report:
4.32ah battery
Drained .1v - 24 hours
Draws power from S1 and S2 only
.1v might not seem like much, but that is more than 10% capacity of 2 banks, which would lower entire pack usable by 10%
Of course, with a 20ah pack, that would be a mere 2% per day ...

Still, I would have to recommend, that item should be used only during pack usage, or to check pack occasionally.

A switch or momentary contact button, on neg pin, would easy on-off or allow quick check.

Wow, DrkAngel; That device looks great! Where can I buy it? Do you have a link? How much does it cost?

FA
Build 2: (present build): Rear x5304 on full suspension Mongoose, 127v 30s3p 10aH Turnigy Lipo, Lyen 24FET 100amp controller, CA2.2, 26" Hookworm front, 26" Crazy Bob rear, 203mm disc brakes, Airzound horn, twin Blaze 2 watt front lights - ~54MPH top speed
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby DrkAngel » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:58 pm

DrkAngel wrote:Great new price on, 1-8S Lipo Battery Tester Low Voltage Buzzer Alarm. $3.29 w/shipping
Half the price of previous best price! I ordered another 5.

Displays total voltage and well as that of individual cell-bank.
Programmable low voltage alarm, audio-visual. (2.7-3.8v)

1-8S Lipo Battery Tester Low Voltage Buzzer Alarm RC 1S - $3.29 w/shipping

Image$3.29
Note: Claims accurate to within 1/100th Volt, actual, from several, is a few 100ths.
Total voltage accurate, cell accuracy varies.

I use one as an "on bar" volt-fuel gauge. Rigged into throttle, (voltage to battery level leds).
Up to 30v 1S meter, just attach to neg - pin 1 and pin 2.
Use multiple to monitor, larger than, 8S packs.

1-8S Lipo Battery Tester Low Voltage Buzzer Alarm
24hr report:
4.32ah battery
Drained .1v - 24 hours
Draws power from S1 and S2 only
.1v might not seem like much, but that is more than 10% capacity of 2 banks, which would lower entire pack usable by 10%
Of course, with a 20ah pack, that would be a mere 2% per day ...

Still, I would have to recommend, that item should be used only during pack usage, or to check pack occasionally.

A switch or momentary contact button, on neg pin, would easy on-off or allow quick check.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs

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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby neptronix » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:14 pm

Is there an echo in here? :mrgreen:
ES facebook group: http://facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_125035107565566&ap=1

The all-arounder: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The girlfriend bike: 350W front MAC on a 700c Trek.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB
The Bus: ??? on a 'da bomb' cargo bike frame

Pro-tips for noobs: Avoid BMS Battery like the plague | Charge RC Lipos to 4.15v, stop discharging at 3.5-3.6v | Use torque plates/arms! | Rear mounted hubs are always best
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby Floont » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:38 pm


Thanks,DkAngel for correcting yhe link.

FA
Build 2: (present build): Rear x5304 on full suspension Mongoose, 127v 30s3p 10aH Turnigy Lipo, Lyen 24FET 100amp controller, CA2.2, 26" Hookworm front, 26" Crazy Bob rear, 203mm disc brakes, Airzound horn, twin Blaze 2 watt front lights - ~54MPH top speed
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby liveforphysics » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:57 pm

Those devices are what's known as a battery-unbalancer. :-)
For ebike parts, don't be a douche, buy from http://www.ebikes.ca or http://www.MethTek.com

Justin saved the forum at great personal expense! The man is a legend and a hero!
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby neptronix » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:02 pm

^-- lol, yup
ES facebook group: http://facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_125035107565566&ap=1

The all-arounder: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The girlfriend bike: 350W front MAC on a 700c Trek.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB
The Bus: ??? on a 'da bomb' cargo bike frame

Pro-tips for noobs: Avoid BMS Battery like the plague | Charge RC Lipos to 4.15v, stop discharging at 3.5-3.6v | Use torque plates/arms! | Rear mounted hubs are always best
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Re: Homemade Battery Packs

Postby Floont » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:25 pm

Why would they do that?

Sorry, lipo no0b here. (Ask me about SLA's and I'll talk your ear off; and yes, SLA's are not fashionable and eventually I will be ditching them).

FA
Build 2: (present build): Rear x5304 on full suspension Mongoose, 127v 30s3p 10aH Turnigy Lipo, Lyen 24FET 100amp controller, CA2.2, 26" Hookworm front, 26" Crazy Bob rear, 203mm disc brakes, Airzound horn, twin Blaze 2 watt front lights - ~54MPH top speed
All my posts on this site are licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License
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