Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

General Discussion about electric bicycles.

Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:46 pm

Crap. The Harbor Freight tool box was a bust. :( It is fine for light-duty consumer-oriented projects, however my needs would likely beat the hell out of it within 100 miles. :|

That said, they did have a small red-painted metal toolbox and that got me to thinking “outside the box!” Ha :o Sears is two blocks away, so I perused their tool center. Man, has that place changed from the glory days of my youth, but I digress… Didn’t find exactly a match, but definitely some food for thought. :idea:

Raced back home, broke open my layout and reworked the battery array to this: 1x4x7 = 28 (and we actually only need 27), results into 15.5w x 7.5h x 6d.

Image

Sears did have one metal portable toolbox with similar dimensions: 16w x 7.5h x 7d. The Magenta box of that size is drawn around the batteries.

Image

It is a little bit wide, however the stack of batteries is lower and shorter, pushing the CG closer to the CL of the axle and frame; it will still be more than 50% above the axle – and we want that for proper trailing and balance. However there’s an issue with being too wide; the risk is that I am less than an inch narrower than the handlebars: My trailer would become a wide-glide fat fanny. :cry: :| :) :lol:

Ahh, but the hunt is on again; we mustn’t give up the ship! :wink:
Arrrg, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:12 pm

Craftsman 16'' Metal Hand Box

I went back to Sears today with my other battery pack that normally carries 12 to 14 bricks; in the past I’ve strapped this on for extending the range out to 100 miles at a modest clip. I took the Metal Hand Box and opened it up for inspection. The good news is that the tool tray is engineered to lay on top of the opened rim instead of resting on an intermediate bracket; I was a bit concerned because this might prove difficult to remove or modify – although my fears were gratefully unfounded. :)

The bottom corners of the box are not entirely closed (pin-hole sized); for the money why argue. The fact is I was going to put drain holes into the box to allow for moisture to escape. The sides appear to be flash-welded, soldered, or braised on; the black paint hides the technique, and yet it is very sturdy – even the hinge is well-mounted. The lid latch is matching in quality; though it is very budget-oriented the construction is a step above Harbor Freight et al.

Batteries were gently fitted into the Metal Hand Box. My layout drawing in the previous post is conservative; I was able easily fit a row 7 wide and a column 4 tall without issue. And there was room enough for a row of 8 wide with careful spooning; it’s a snug fit though not a bad one and quite possibly how I’ll end up packing them in. Plenty of room for cables above or to one side. The only caveat is attempting a stack of 4 x 8; the top row will peak at the rim about midway and there isn’t room for 8 across. Ultimately though I am pretty happy with the enclosure. :D

You can find this on the web cheaper than at the store; I elected to purchase mine direct from Sears online for $24.99 each (whereas the local store listed for $28.99) and saved an additional $5 off the total cost, however there was another reason and that is I am on my bike and there would not have been room for both boxes. The shipping will put it here in a week or so for < $10. Even then I still came out ahead. Total with tax for two was less than $60. There are also clones out there although they do not have the distinctive front panel where the Craftsman sticker is placed; these run about $3 less than Sears. Personally I’d rather have the warrantee.

Battery Platform
Early this morning I had an inkling that the Metal Hand Box would work out and began finalizing my layout to accommodate. The platform holding the Box will be constructed of two aluminum angle rails and probably ¼ inch (5-6mm) marine-grade plywood. I ran across these two sites and learned quite a bit.

Before today I had been looking for Baltic (Russian) or Finnish Birch as being the strongest, although the Okoume variety is rated quite high as well. To be honest I was sidelined for about an hour gazing over the Chesapeake Light Craft product catalog; other than biking I really dig sailing and I think it would be neat to build kayak (with a sail) and tow it behind my ebike to the lake. OK, I’d probably have to put an electric motor on it for when I want to troll for my dinner… :roll: :lol:

Back to work, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby docnjoj » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:21 pm

Screw the boat, Kingfish. That construction, especially the sew up type looks dynomite for a Velo! I also got lost in the catalogue too!
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:35 pm

Thanks otherDoc :)

Perhaps it’s best if I update the layout of the present model:

From left to right, top to bottom, we are presented with three views, named Rear (technical Rear-Right Section), Right Profile view with bike facing forward to the right, and Top view looking down below it. For the layperson, between these three views I can generate any dimension required to make parts.

Image

Described:
  • The Simple Because frame is red and easily identified in the Right Profile view. It is tied to the rear axle of my ebike by way or the purple hitch through the steering crown; the Simple frame is rotated CW so that the vertical axis of the hitch is about 5-7 degrees forward. For comparison, most bike frames have their forks tilted 17-21 degrees backward. If the angle is too shallow instability occurs, and if it is too large the turning radius becomes unmanageable. Some tilt is required for the trailer to self-correct, otherwise it will wander when contributing to the forward thrust. I have rotated the frame as far forward as I dare; the bottom bracket matches the ground clearance of the BOB Ibex trailer which is represented by the horizontal magenta line.
  • The Rear view illustrates both the width of the BOB Ibex and the relative angle of clearance should the trailer lean over at 45 degrees. The illustration is fudged however because the Simple Because trailer tire is 24”, whereas the BOB is 16” in diameter - bringing the axle 4" lower, so the reality is that my trailer design actually has nearly twice the angular clearance – which is great should I ever take a corner so hard! :twisted:
  • The other red lines in the same view are the axle, and the lower clearance of the pedals represented as a dashed line. This is carried over in the top view as well. The goal of the layout was to remain inside the pedal width, but we can’t find a box off the shelf that is both cost-effective, rugged, and matching the requirements. With the top view, there are 3 dashed cyan lines: One is the center-line, and the other two designate the width of the handlebars. As you can see the trailer barely fits within this limit; not optimum, but good enough. I will need to be very careful in traffic if I need to squeeze by on the right.
  • The Battery boxes (yellow with green bricks inside) will be supported primarily by a tubular strut passing directly through the bottom bracket, with the other end affixed at the rear axle. I shall lay down two aluminum L-brackets (also called “angle iron”) parallel to the frame on each side, and topped with ¼” thk marine plywood. Upon this the metal box shall be mounted and strapped down. There is room for additional decking fore and aft, and I plan to use that space for light cargo or tools.
  • The faring will pretty much be a combination of stich and cloth, and HDPE. The main aspects are to reduce the wind resistance, and I plan on having a smooth surface beneath, as well as having tapered sides as partly indicated.
  • The ebike is displayed showing the Ortleib saddlebag, fender and crank clearances. The trailer is designed to pivot 30 degrees up or down relative to the ebike frame, and as previously discussed take a corner at 45 degrees, although not with either pedal down. Lastly the trailer is designed to be slightly top-heavy in partial matching to the Center-of-Gravity (CG) of the forward frame.
I have but a handful of parts left to design.
Two weeks to go: Will I make it? :shock:

Wagering, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:50 pm

Status

I have been really busy sorting out the details and ordering stuff. I guy can never have too much stuff, and well… I am full of stuff! At least – people have told me that I am full of stuff, so there it is. 8)

This week’s stuff is as follows:
  • Rear Hub: Kris Holm 24” MtB rim & 24”x2.5” & Maxxis Hookworm: Spokes were dropped off at REI and my wheel builder should have this completed on Saturday.
  • Speedict: In the queue, soon to be here. I have a special announcement with Speedict, however I shall save that for the Going to California: 2011 Thread, to be posted later this eve.
  • Battery Medic: Bought a unit recently and it is in the pipe 5x5. Related thread: A Question of Balance
  • Marine Plywood: Ordered up 4mm 2x4 Okoume A/B BS1088 from Boulter; in the queue.
  • Custom Parts: All design drawings are now at the Machinist. I am going through and creating layout plans as we speak on how to optimize the placement within the stock material, and setting up direct purchase from McMaster-Carr. The layouts will allow for better packing and less material costs, and – the Machinist will cut me some slack on the price if I do some of his planning & labor. It’s a lot of work; there’s about 60 hours of machining to do, and the race is on: Steel is being cut as of this evening. The custom parts are in four lots:
    • Custom Widget – Allows for mounting of the Campy 53-39-30 Triple; this work has been completed.
    • Front Torque Arm assembly – Parts are being cut as we speak. This will allow for the mounting of the 9C 2806 Disc hub with the Mavic rim and Maxxis Hookworm; in progress.
    • Trailer Hitch – Custom connection between the Felt Compulsion and the Simple Because frames.
    • Trailer Platform & Rear Torque Arm – An integrated assembly that supports about 100 pounds of batteries & dry goods.

It’s lot’s of stuff, with more stuff coming in.
Makin’ room for more stuff, KF :)
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:02 pm

Saturday June 18th

There are two Status lists that I am keeping; be sure to check out the Going to California thread to see status of the rest of my bike.

I have been slammed every day, and it’s been like a blur.

Bike Frame to Machinist: Delivered the frame to shop. Initially I thought of strapping it to my back, but this arrangement worked out well. It’s tied down with an inner-tube onto the rear rack; didn’t budge a whisker over the 10+ mile journey.

Image

Custom Parts: Acting as a purchasing agent, I drew up the layouts that maximize stock material, contacted three suppliers sourcing materials, and finally placing a large order with McMaster-Carr on Thursday with the material arriving about 1:30 PM by FedEx yesterday; less than 24 hours.

Image

Marine Plywood: Tracking says it will arrive on Tuesday.

Battery Boxes: The Sears Portable Tool Boxes arrived yesterday. I worked up a few battery configurations; there is plenty of room and not much to worry about. It just needs a little bit of hard foam and bolting down.

Battery Balancing: The 6-to-1 Balancing cables arrived I think on Wednesday and I cracked open the big box of LiPos from HK. Hooked up the Battery Medic and tried balancing: Boy is that device wimpy. I had better luck hooking up the Balancing cables. Out of the entire lot of HK batteries only one cell was out 0.1V while all the rest were within 0.03-0.05V. I counted myself lucky. Also strange is that the new LiPos are smaller than what I had purchased last year; they are skinnier! The weight is the same, they are just trimmer. No complaints.

Fenders: Bought the Electra Plastic Balloon Townie Fender Set, color – black. I’ll use that to construct the rear fender on the trailer.

Image

Faring: Stopped at Tap Plastics and picked up a 2x4 sheet of White HDPE and a sheet of Black.

Power Cabling: Stopped at Vetco and snagged 8-AWG zip cord, heat shrink tubing and black zip ties.

Speedict: Received email this morning confirming the latest model shipping out from Hong Kong; should take 5-10 working days to get here. Hopefully it will arrive before I have to leave. This version has the fix which displays up to 100V, although I am unsure what other mods are applied under the hood.

Rear Hub: The Kris Holm 24” MtB rim & 24”x2.5” & Maxxis Hookworm wheel is now finished. Looks nice sitting next to my front wheel which I hope to mount Monday evening.

Image

In all the trailer is coming together; the Machinist is busting his team to crank my stuff out. There will not be time to paint or plate the parts; I’m not worried about Stainless or Aluminum, however the CrMo steel will be hit with a dash of hi-temp black paint and baked dry in the oven. Other parts on my bike treated in this method are holding up well enough.

Speaking of paint I think I’ll hit the Lyen controllers with Black paint too; hide the glitter from potentially pesky magpies with evil ideas. :wink:

So much to do, so little time. Nine days and counting.
~KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:49 am

Thursday June 23rd

  • Ordered various fasteners from McMaster-Carr; it was cheaper to buy in bulk rather than go to Home Despot and scrounge through the limited selection. These were delivered to the Machinist for final assembly.
  • Purchased a squad of Anderson Power Pole connectors for the battery bus and the phase wires.
  • Developed several battery layouts for the Battery Box. Ultimately I will stack the bricks on their wide sides in rows of 8 x 3 deep. The last row will have 9, so a couple will be turned on edge to fit.
  • The Batt-box Cable Harness is coming along; tedious work. Wore out my soldering tip though Radio Shack carries my brand and it was quick to correct and keep going.
  • The Marine Plywood arrived; it’s 4mm thick and slightly more flexible than I would like, though I think that if I put a coat of epoxy sealer on that it might stiffen up.
  • The Machinist has finished cutting my custom parts – a total of 33 if you count all the work in the last 6 weeks.
  • Parts went to Plating yesterday and I picked them up this evening; they look nice!
  • Tomorrow we’ll begin putting the trailer together up to the point where I can bring it home and finish it up. :)
See Going to California for non-trailer status.

Gettin' there, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:38 pm

Friday June 24th
4 days to go...

Image

Assembled the basic framework today at the Machinist. He was kind enough to open his shop up to me for small parts and finishing work; the details that can only be realized when parts are in hand. We assembled it up to the point where I could safely bring it home for more work. The platform section is very sturdy; I stood on the strut passing through the Bottom Bracket and bounced a bit; there's no flex there. However there is a little wobble if one were to jitter the handlebars agressively; not much chance of that happening in real life but good to know the mechanical aspects however obtained. The Machinist and the Welder discussed some options and I may add in another trust at the Hitch/Headset-Steerer interface to stiffen up the linkage.

The ride back was pretty smooth; you can tell it's there but it doesn't nag. Mainly I feel the slight drag of the rear hub motor. There is some tiny wobble, but nothing like I experienced yesterday when I had the Booster Pack mounted on the rear rack. The hitch breaks down in about 2 minutes - it worked exactly how I had planned it. In all, I am glad I went ahead and plated the parts; it is defintely eye-candy and catching attention all the way back to my abode. 8)

The last shipment arrived today; another 12 batteries. It will be a busy weekend finishing up the trailer and making it look all spiffy. But for now...

It's Miller-Time, er um - make that an authentic Northern German Pilsner! KF :)
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Kingfish
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby jonathanm » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:43 pm

wow....great job!
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:17 pm

The only work I managed to get to on this since bringing it home was to inspect the slow leak in the tire. Turns out that the Kris Holm plastic rim liner is insufficient to prevent the tubing from being cut. I resolved to fix the problem by adding a layer of Stop Flats 2, then wrapped another plastic liner over the top. I am awaiting a source for tire liner locally before re-inflating. If time allows I’d like to pull the hub cover off and upgrade the phase wires to 12-AWG. My trip is now delayed about two days, but I’d rather be ready than not.

~KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Kingfish
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby llile » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:45 pm

I've built trailers, never electrified, but here is a key engineering point on trailers. The squirrelliness some folks mentioned is a symptom of lack of rigidity int he system. When I built the first one-wheel trailer, I loaded it up with camping gear for a shakedown cruise, and it scared the bejeebers out of me going down a big hill. Wobbling back and forth out of control. I reinforced some key parts of it with some triangulation and some more rigid steel and the wobbling stopped. Grab the trailer in your hands and try to bend it at various weak points. Can you make it deflect, even a tiny amount? Say by twisting the parts that connect to the bike frame? That deflection can add up and feedback into a major fishtail under heavy loads. :shock:

I had the same problem on an old 1952 pickup with a loosey-goosey front end - load it too heavy and it would fishtail out of control if you went too fast downhill. I have also heard of people pulling overloaded trailers in pickup trucks having the same scary problem.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:02 pm

The wobble only appears when the trailer is mounted to the ebike, and even then it is a tiny shimmy. This occurs at the hitch-steerer interface. A small cross-brace should fix the problem however my machinist was unable to get to me this week due to the holiday. I might try something else to lock down the wobble; again it is very subtle.

I'll know more about the problem tomorrow when I begin putting a load on it.

I also bought a sway-dampening shock which I'll mount if it begins to squirrel-about :)

Best, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Kingfish
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:21 am

Brief Update:

  • Yesterday I programmed the secondary controller which drives the trailer hub. It is not yet calibrated with the CA though.
  • The night before I united the Throttle (SP), Cruise (CR), 3-Way (X1 & X2), and Ebrake (-EBS) with the primary controller,
  • Enabled Regen (BK shorted to GRN),
  • United VCC-L with Primary controller,
  • However +12V and +5V are not shared.
  • Both primary and secondary controllers have the R12 mod applied, and are programmed with a Voltage Limt of 32.0 and EMSLim at 60, which equates to New LVC at 50.528V and
  • New HVC at 94.74V. The feeling is that on a 15S battery configuration the voltage drops rather quickly below 52V and there is not a lot to gain by setting the threshold lower except for the chance to bloat the batteries. The HVC limit is below the 100V limit of the MOSFETs.
  • Replaced the two large capacitors with higher capacitance and lower ESR-rated/higher quality units on both controllers.
  • Smoke test of united controls did not provide smoke – which is good. :D
  • On yesterday's maiden voyage the Throttle and 3-Way worked perfectly. However Ebrake/Regen did not.
Overall - good news, though resolved to double-check circuit board and wiring. :)

The plan for today is to get the trailer to the machinist for one hitch mod to reinforce the interface and reduce the very slight wobble.

Work in progress, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Kingfish
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:27 pm

Ebrake & Regen problem

Ran some tests this AM.

  • With both wheels suspended, Throttle works on both hubs.
  • Engaged the Ebrake: The front hub brakes whilst performing Regen, however the rear hub throttle is only cut-off and without Regen.
  • Presumed I was in error when setting Regen on the PCB, therefore I extracted the unit and performed a continuity test of BK to GND; it passes.
  • Reapplied the connection of BK to GND and tested continuity from BK to the Negative Battery connector; it passes.
  • Reassembled the unit and tested: Throttle works. Applied Ebrake and Throttle is cut-out but there is no Regen. :cry:

I’m confused. Why would this not work?

ADDENDUM:
Noted yesterday that variable regen through the throttle was not working. I went into the programming application and set the SlipChargeMode to 0: UP 15 Mark (throttle regen) but this had no effect upon the motor.

Also, I discovered that the 3-Way Speed is not working properly; I definitely get 55% (Speed 2) but the freewheel speed is a little low so I think that the 90% (X1/Speed 1) speed is working, but not the 120% (X2/Speed 3).

I’ll reprogram the Primary controller to see if I can get the Throttle-Regen to work since eBraking-Regen does work.

ADDENDUM 2:
Well setting the SlipChargeMode to equal 0: UP 15 Mark produced another odd anomaly in the Primary controller: Ebrake works to cut out throttle, however it I get on the throttle then back off – the throttle now acts like a brake, so of how some big tractors work; power on or brake. The Secondary controller doesn’t behave like this at all. Weird. I’ll post this on the 12 x 4110 MOSFET Extreme Modder Controller LYEN Edition thread.


~KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:52 pm

Wednesday July 6th

Blocked by lack of Regen on the Rear hub Motor. If the issue cannot be resolved then I have two alternatives:

  • Hack my original tried-and-true 6FET into a Secondary. I R E A L L Y do not want to do that because I can no longer reprogram the device; many moons ago I was trying to remove the programming connector on the board and ended up tearing the pads off and it’s a bloody mess. This controller can only be used as a Primary as it's stuck at 120%. My plan was to carry it with me on my road trip as an emergency Primary backup.
  • Provision an older 12FET unit that I bought from Dennis (another dealer) and slave it out. This unit has been partly modified for massive current with serious phase trace upgrade and 10AWG silver-plated Battery and phase wires; very ghetto :twisted: At this point, I’m not going anywhere without Regen on that rear wheel; it’s a hard fixed must-have requirement because there is no other method to slow the trailer down.
  • ADDENDUM: I just realized that I have a third option... I also have a Lyen 6FET Mini-Monster (4110) that is completely unmodified and left over from last year's trek when I was trying to do a 2WD ebike. That's likely the best option of the three because it's not going to run that hard (18A likely).
I'll be damned though if I can figure out what the issue is. :cry:

In other news, I began to put the deck together on the customized frame. It was getting late so I’ll save the power-tooling for the morning, though it looks like I could have something cobbled together by lunchtime. I want to finish it so I can put a load on the wheel so it won’t jump around.

Most other status relates to the trip in general and is covered on that thread.
~KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:00 pm

Lyen 6FET Mini-Monster Test

Prepped Controller for temporary testing. Noted that the R1 resistor is 659 ohm; ideal would be 488 ohm for my 63V system. I do not yet know if this shall pose a problem on lower voltages; might need to dash off to radio Shack.

With Mini-Monster acting as a Primary controller to the Rear Hub:
  • Throttle passes.
  • Noted artifact that holding the Throttle for one second causes it to engage Cruise Control. Also noted that the single white wire with connector enables or disables the CR pin, so that is good. I have the dashboard setup to hold CR to GND with a momentary switch. Cruise Control passes.
  • Tested 3-Way: N/C defaults to slow Speed 2; good. Shorted Red (X1) to GND and received the medium speed; good. Shorted Green (X3) and X1 to GND (the dashboard does this) and noted no change. Therefore I just shorted Green (X3) to GND only and – received the High Speed; 3-Way passes. Mental note to R&R dashboard control.
  • Ebrake test: Left the High Speed engaged, and with a microswitch shorted –EBS to GND. Ebrake kills Throttle but does not engage Regen. Ebrake passes. Regen fails.
  • Regen: Double-checked that BK was shorted to GND; continuity test confirms this is so. Why is this not working? Out of a lark, I disconnected BK from GND; result was no change.
  • Note: The R1 and related voltage regulator are hot enough to fry my finger! :shock:
Conclusion: Resolved potential issue with 3-WAY and that is good. However Regen still does not work with this specific controller. The 6FET was flashes exactly the same as the Primary with exception to down-rated Battery and Phase Current (18A/45A) and that it is an EB206 board.

Not giving up:
I’m like a dog with a bone… Decided after reviewing the Configuration that I need to try one other test. I had the EBS Limit set to 60V, however I also have not done the R12 mod – so I changed it to 75V and retested. BK was disconnected and Ebrake had no change. Reconnected BK to GND and guess what? I’ve got Regen! :mrgreen:

OK – so how does this affect my Secondary controller which has the R12 mod? Why does the Primary work with the EXACT same configuration? Off to review…
Feeling better, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:50 pm

Checked the R12 mod on the Secondary controller and it was a cold-solder joint. Made the repair and now Regen works! :D

Applying a fix to the 3-Way dashboard control, then moving back to the trailer decking. Machinist just called and he says I have to make my mods with him TODAY cos he's going on vaykay and "won't be available" as he puts it.

ADDENDUM: 3-Way from the dashboard control now works; top-end freewheel spun at 54.5 mph; we are good to go! :D

Going for it! KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:25 am

Brief Status:

Loaded up the trailer with a sacrificial deadweight using four frozen gallon jugs of water; figure about 30% of the expected weight capacity. Put them into my yellow Ortleib bags, tied it down, then headed out for the Machinist this afternoon. It was a FLAT-FREE experience! Actually it was a lot more than that:

  • Imagine 3-WAY Speed control; I have it on the default which is 52%. It is enough to keep me at 21 mph with light pedaling – feels like a bike, moves like a bike, plenty safe for potential problem towns. The acceleration is awesome though short-lived.
  • Moving out of the center of town I flicked the 3-WAY to the middle setting at 85%; there’s more power here than required; major power burst and acceleration for far longer. This is plenty fast for urban traffic at 31 mph, and climbs hills quite respectively without being a banshee.
  • The rear wheel skipped less and dug in more; however corning could still be problematicv if powering on aggressively which in turn causes the rear to skip and bounce. At no time did the tail wag the dog; the front pulls harder and leads the bike forward.
  • Regen-Braking is hard and jarring, and at one point the rear wheel squawked from hard regen. Unfortunately I have yet to figure out if these controllers can do variable regen like my old one. I may consider having the rear regen hard and the front regen a little softer. One idea that I recently read about is Shorting BK to GND when the Ebrake goes to GND so that we could coast farther as the two motors do produce quite a bit of drag.
Mounted the custom cross-brace to the lower hitch. The change was very subtle, and mainly bracketed to constraining axial and torsional moments about the hitch itself. There are several areas where the bike and trailer wobble: The trailer has an axial (twisting along the length) wobble. The bike has a side-to-side wobble introduced by the suspension. Lastly, the big fatty Hookworms on the Mavic rims deflect from side-to-side as well; a good strong sidewall would resist that motion.

Trailering required a little skill and attention; you know it’s there for good or bad. Definitely a kick in the butt to drive! My plan is to wrap it up tomorrow. It’s time to git on down the road.
Jonesin’ for wide open country. KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby jonathanm » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:49 am

Good skills with finding that dry joint, great you got it working....This has been a very exciting trip so far and you haven't even left yet!
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:22 pm

Prelaunch
I was asked to post pictures on the Going to California thread, but they really need to go here.

These are “prelaunch” pictures – sort of unofficial release. I have the trailer finished up to a point where I plan to head out at first light tomorrow more or less. I am not particularly happy with the faring but time was short and I am already 2 weeks late for my holiday. There were issues in the past week that were just steal-your-life black holes and so tedious that is wasn’t worth reporting. I tried five times to cover the faring; Start a design, meh – try something else. It nearly didn’t get done. This is not my best sewing job either. It is not light; the vinyl weighs it down whereas the HDPE adds rigidity though is not very convenient for creating blends or 3D corners. Anyway – enough of my carping; the trailer is functional and that’s why it was made. :)

Exterior/Body

Image

Top view from the back of the bike. I tried to stay with the colors black, white, and silver.

Image

Side view with sort of a boat-motif. This popped into my head a couple of days ago as I was walking to the store. The original design was to have a waterproof zipper down the centerline – but I figured with my sewing skill and that cumbersome industrial sewing machine – I’d better not. Thus the boaty-tie-down method. Works well to create tension, but is slow to re-lace and trim up. I added a nylon rope seam to keep the holes from tearing out. Flimsy. The silver marine vinyl is not as strong and the black material used for the bra. I put a single piece of white HDPE right in front of the steerer directly behind the rear bike wheel as a deflector shield.

Image

Rear-top view; dovetailed the end to make it nice and roundy.

Image

Rear-left-side view; the whole rear end is roundy and aero.

Image

Rear view. I realized a bit late that changing the tire my pose a problem. Otherwise, the tire is completely covered from throwing spray into the trailer; it’s not moisture-proof, but it’s better than a poke in the eye.

What you don’t see is the bottom; it’s one seamless piece with only a couple of zip-ties protruding through to suspend it from the frame. I figure if I get to about 80 mph there may be some lift generated! :twisted:

Interior

Image

Top view with the ebike off to the left (out of the picture). Two Sears Craftsman tool boxes hold 30 little LiPo bricks each. There has to be 3 pounds of copper linking them altogether. Okoume Marine plywood, about 5mm thick and sealed with stinky stuff is used for the decking. Beneath that is a pair of Aluminum Angles running the length on both sides. These are tied down to a CrMo Steel tube passing through the Bottom-Bracket (I call it the “Truss”). About 40% of the batteries are sitting on the truss, and the rest of the weight is on the hub axle. Kinda hard to see though the HDPE sheeting is covering the tire to protect the trailer contents from overspray – and acts like a barrier to prevent the bags from rubbing against the tire and spokes. (I hates it when it does that!)

Image

Top view near the rear; there’s more space here to plop in two more bags behind the battery boxes.

Image

¾ Top-View with my gear beside the trailer. Good view of the steering dampener.

Image

And there it is all loaded up in no time! This was by far the fastest part of the project: Quick load and unloading.

All done for now. :mrgreen: Still needs buff and polish – but that will have to wait until there is opportunity on the road – or whenever I can get to it.

Better pics later when I’m on the road.

ADDENDUM: Integration issues -
  • I thought that I had an extra pair of turn indicators because I discovered too late that they are pretty cheap quality and break easily; alas I only had 3 pairs with one being bad. Thus the went without, however it is wired for signals and 3.3V for Blinkies (which I ran out of time to install).
  • However - the running taillight and Brake Light do work! :)

Cheers, KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby dbaker » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:53 am

Great job, KF :mrgreen:
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:09 am

dbaker wrote:Great job, KF :mrgreen:

T'anx pal :D

I just wanted to add that the battery box installation used a thin strip of aluminum 1/32 x 3/4 wide x 15 long Qty-2 down each side, with #8 Phillups-head (grrrrr ~ we hates them) and washers to secure it to the framework below. (Apologies - no pictures) The aluminum strip adds reinforcement and spreads the load to the box sheetmetal - creating better resistance to having a fastener pull through. Between the thin strips is a section of 5mm Marine Plywood which nearly equals the total height of the fasteners and strip. Then I laid down a thin layer of closed-cell foam; this will deform/conform to fill the voids and provide narrow frequency dampening. The last layer is Yellow (naturally illuminating under low-light) HDPE which I used to provide the last layer of armor against a protruding fastener. Because of this slight layering - about 9mm total - there was not enough room in the battery box to place a 4th row. Therefore I could only fit 30 bricks a side. The 4 spare batteries will travel elsewhere (tbd this AM).

Fueling up (coffee... we need more coffee) KF :)
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Whiplash » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:47 pm

Soooo, did you launch it? I love the idea of the trailer rather than the goofy long tails you see here. I would love to do a small geared hub on a trailer FULL of LIpo to do a big ride and just have my gear drive there for emergency! Looks fun to me! I hope it works out well!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Kingfish » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:48 am

Whiplash wrote:Soooo, did you launch it? I love the idea of the trailer rather than the goofy long tails you see here. I would love to do a small geared hub on a trailer FULL of LIpo to do a big ride and just have my gear drive there for emergency! Looks fun to me! I hope it works out well!

Thanks Whiplash for the positive thoughts. :)

I was going to do a summary when it was all said and done. The short story though is that the trailer had problems in this incarnation. I am at present remanufacturing (or resurrection) as a simple trailer w/o the motor.
Link to description of problem: On the Road: Going to California: 2011 (probably should be renamed On the Side of the Road: Going to California :roll: )

  • As a Pusher, this frame is not suitable for heavy load; light-to-medium loads are OK. However the design WAS for heavy load. The axial twisting results in the trailer steering the eBike into traffic or to the curb and oscillating without control.
  • In the rework process, I removed the motor and mounted it on the eBike. The custom axle used for the Hitch assembly is now going to become of the trailer’s rear axle because a standard axle isn’t long enough. The signals and battery cabling can be saved; I shall put some batteries on the trailer though not the full complement as originally planned.
  • The load will be reduced from 100-130 lbs. to something more in the realm of 35-50 lbs.
Below are pictures of the assembly at launch from last week.

Image
Top View: Note that the right pannier is not mounted (cos I have the camera out).

Image

Rear ¾ View: I was impressed. :lol:

We are still carrying a candle of hope and optimism that this design can be saved, though not as a pusher trailer. For that I think we either need to swap out for a steel frame and/or redesign from scratch a purpose-built framework.
~KF
* My 2WD Garden Wall
* Current ride: 2WD Disc EBikeKit (9C 2806-equivalent) / Dual Lyen 12FET / 15S6P LiPo when commuting.
* Going to California: 2011: Trip completed 8)
* Club Member: 40-mph & 101. 10k-Club: 11,218 miles-to-date, 5728 as 2WD.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed.
The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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Re: Pusher-Trailer: A Bicycle-Frame Solution

Postby Whiplash » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:54 pm

Looks good though! What is with the propeller?? LOL! Trying to get a little regen there?? HAHA..
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net
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