(iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

General Discussion about electric bicycles.

Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (eZip Trailz lifepo4)

Postby RVD » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:11 pm

tuxman wrote:


Congrats on your bike. I'm glad you enjoy it. Building your own is fun but it looks like you got a decent deal with yours and you're happy so that's most important.

This video is pretty cool. It's actually taken on the same path that I took to work for 2 years...except I rode a regular bike. It's beautiful down here.

My new route turns just before going to the Marina Del Rey section which is where much of this video takes place. I no longer work in Santa Monica which is where all of the parking structures and people group shots were taken.

Anyway, have fun out there...
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Dahon Speed D7, e-bikekit 350 watt geared motor, 12s lipo. Build Thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34958
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:35 pm

If anyone is interested in a ready made ebike, the 2nd batch of the Prodeco Phantom X has a ship date of July 31st 2011 over at Bikemania.biz

Assembled in the USA, 2 year warranty, 500w DD rear hub, 12ah LiFePo4 36v for $1,099 shipped; it was on the top of my list. But not available back in May so I picked up the Zuma instead.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:58 am

mobybike wrote:
Mine had the leather grips installed backwards. If you reverse them so the bumpy knob is out instead of in, they feel even better!


Did this mod a few weeks ago too. Flipped the hand grips so they are now reversed. This must be how the engineer designed it in the first place, much more comfortable.

Thanks for the tip!
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby rmeier » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:17 am

I recently purchased an I-ZIP Zuma from eco-wheelz. This purchase was based mostly on "tuxmans" recommendations. Thank you for the
detailed information and excellent pictures. The bike is a real hoot to ride. I live in a valley area where everyplace over a mile away is up a
serious hill. I'm 62, 6'3" & 260lbs. Mostly retired now, I wanted a comfy bike for exersize and errand running.
On my old Shwinn Sidewinder my legs got so sore I wobbled walking from the garage back to the house. Now going up those hills is done in 4th / 5th
gear with the same effort as the granny gear range of the Schwinn. The breeze at these higher speeds make summer pedaling so much more pleasent too.
(Note... adding 8-10 teeth on the front sprocket would be better). About the only time I use the throttle mode is at startup when crossing large controlled
intersections. Once moving it's back to PAS mode. Even after about 12-15 miles the battery is still indicating half on the LED. The brakes, while strong,
are not smooth in their stopping effort, giving a pulsing braking force as if the discs had rough spots. I thought I broke them in gradually over the first
20 miles or so. Any thoughts on this. I'll give it another 50 miles of normal use before I start complaining to Currie.
Overall I'm happy with the machine, to which I added the quite usefull I-ZIP rear saddle bags. ( holds about a full bag of groceries )
Again thanks to all those who contributed to this discussion.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:59 pm

Glad you like it. So far I've put over 500 miles on mine and the brakes have settled down. The brakes are still noisy, but will stop on a dime even when wet. Chain has popped off a few times. Other than that it's a great bike and is real transportation.

A side note is the battery rack and motor blends in with the bike. I like having the battery and motor some what concealed. Have yet to be stopped by government agents!
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:10 am

Brakes update. Almost perfect.

All comes down to proper installation. Well, lets say re-installation. With a slight mod. They now float.

1) Release the brake cable from the caliper and un-screw caliper from the frame, remove it from the rotor.
2) Set the hand lever cable slack adjuster screw to the middle of its range. Do the same for the one on the caliper.
3) Expose as much of the brake pad as possible by adjusting the brake pad adjuster screw on the back side of the caliper. Making sure the pad has just enough seat inside the caliper; you don't want to hit the brakes and the disk pad not have any contact with the caliper lip.
4) Install back onto rotor, but don't tighten the bolts all the way. Allow the caliper to be loose enough to float left to right but tight enough not to float up and down.
5) Set the brake cable on the caliper while the pads are fully engaged on the rotor. After which you use the hand lever cable slack adjuster to fine tune for the best pull.

Did you need a disclaimer? Seriously, most of the projects on ES are "at your own risk". Didn't think I had to go there but...

This modification is at your own risk. Don't try this at home unless you understand what you are doing. It is deemed NOT SAFE. Injury or death to you or others may occur. Better yet, do not attempt this modification. I will take no responsibility for your actions and do not suggest you under any circumstance try this.
Last edited by tuxman on Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby mobybike » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:06 pm

Well after a few more miles, I got a bit bothered by the annoying shake this bike has. I'm not sure I could recommend this to anyone at this point, but maybe the men's frame is more stable. This picture is actually a click away from the video I took of the uncontrollable shake that occurs when you take your hands off the bars. I tried everything I could think of to stop this from happening, and while the smaller tires on this in the video didn't actually stop the shake, they did make re-gaining control easier because they are lighter.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Racer_X » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:14 pm

sometimes a bike shakes when the spokes are loose have you checked the spokes lately?
Did it shake from the moment you bought the bike?
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby mobybike » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:11 pm

Racer_X wrote:sometimes a bike shakes when the spokes are loose have you checked the spokes lately?
Did it shake from the moment you bought the bike?


Thanks Racer_X,
I did check the spokes, and tensioned and trued these wheels. Loose spokes are also suspect of consideration with squealing brakes which this bike also had. I ended up buying Avid Mechanical brakes for it because they can align better than the stock Tektro Novella.

Yes the bike has done this from day 1. I've tried different tires at different pressure, different forks, shifting rider weight for and aft, up and down with different seats and positions and bars, and even tried an Xtracycle. The Xtracycle experiment was my greatest hope because the battery weight would then be placed between the 2 axles of the bike. It did help a small degree and the shake only started at speeds above 12mph instead of 7 or 8mph. Currie told me the warranty would be void with a cobbled bike like that, and the bike was a total noodle with the Xtracycle bolted on there anyway.

I think the frame material is extremely soft and can't handle the weight of the battery. With the battery removed, the bike doesn't shake.
The customer should not have to be the post engineer to correct major design flaws such as this.
Last edited by mobybike on Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Hillhater » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:15 pm

tuxman wrote:4) Install back onto rotor, but don't tighten the bolts all the way. Allow the caliper to be loose enough to float left to right but tight enough not to float up and down..

:shock: :o
..are you saying leave the caliper fixing screws loose ! ??
What is preventing them backing off and falling out..leaving you brake-less !!
By leaving those bolts loose, you weaken the caliper mounting by 75% !
does not sound like good advice or a sensible way to prevent brake noise.
If you really need a "floating" caliper, at least use shoulder bolts that can be tightened properly.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby mobybike » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:53 pm

Hillhater wrote:
tuxman wrote:4) Install back onto rotor, but don't tighten the bolts all the way. Allow the caliper to be loose enough to float left to right but tight enough not to float up and down..

:shock: :o
..are you saying leave the caliper fixing screws loose ! ??
What is preventing them backing off and falling out..leaving you brake-less !!
By leaving those bolts loose, you weaken the caliper mounting by 75% !
does not sound like good advice or a sensible way to prevent brake noise.
If you really need a "floating" caliper, at least use shoulder bolts that can be tightened properly.


I would agree, don't leave the bolts loose please!
The factors that I think play the biggest part in the brake squeal this bike has are;
1. Soft frame and fork material allowing for resonance to be magnified.
2. Resonance from poorly aligned mount.
3. Factory contaminated pads and/or rotor.

The mounts should be machined parallel and the paint removed, using a professional technique and tool such as the Park Tool DT-1, but since this is hard to find in our local shops, I opted for the Avid BB5 Tri-Align brakes (and rotors) which compensate nicely for the poorly aligned and soft Zuma disc brake mounts. I did remove the paint from the mount surface prior to mounting the caliper adapters to eliminate any possibility of the paint softening from rotor heat, causing a soft surface which allows vibration to magnify. (so the "experts" seem to think)

Pulsing brakes are caused by either oil on the rotor, or a poorly stamped rotor with thick and thin areas of the rotor, which is the actual problem with the disc brake rotors I have had this problem with on Currie iZip bikes. You need a new rotor if your new bike is pulsing during braking and you have cleaned the rotor thoroughly with common isopropyl alcohol and the problem still exists. Remember to use rubber or plastic or nitrile gloves when handling brake rotors so your finger oil doesn't deposit on the rotor.

Other suspects are loose spokes and the Zuma spokes do loosen after a few rides so they too should be tensioned or at least checked for proper tension.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:45 am

Thank you for your concern however I understand the risk and will continue using them as stated.

The screws are not loose. They are secure with lock tight and tested with over a hundred miles without any movement. They are setup no different than shoulder bolts. What I am saying is they are now tightened properly to allow the caliper to float. Perhaps I will replace them with actual shoulder bolts. I am constantly checking these bolts for movement for my safety.

I love my new setup. Not going back. (Disclaimer added to post.)
Last edited by tuxman on Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:02 am

Mobybike,

Could be the headset needs to be replaced.

When you installed the second fork, did you use a new headset or was it from the same Zuma?

BTW, I also had to tighten all the bolts on my forks and headset. They had to much play.

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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby mobybike » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:57 am

tuxman wrote:Mobybike,

Could be the headset needs to be replaced.

When you installed the second fork, did you use a new headset or was it from the same Zuma?

BTW, I also had to tighten all the bolts on my forks and headset. They had to much play.

Image


A good thought Tuxman,
I didn't mention it, but I did need to use different spacers to adjust for fork steerer tube lengths. The headset is in good condition, seated properly, and I also inspected them carefully. The fork crown race is also in good condition and the headset was adjusted and secured properly.

This shake goes away with the battery removed, which pretty much seems to indicate the little bit of extra weight here from the battery causes this problem in this case on this frame. Your Zuma doesn't have this problem evidently, so the drop frame I have must be significantly weaker than the standard frame. The other reason I think this is because the Xtracycle really felt terrible on this Zuma, but it feels great and actually improved the already great ride on the hi-ten steel frame I ended up putting it on. (same bike my e-bike kit is on a 700c Diamondback Kalimar)

I might try kingfish's foam insulation idea in the tubes (like he used on his "going to California" project) to see if it stiffens up the frame next...
Last edited by mobybike on Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby georgefromvt » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:13 pm

mobybike wrote:Well after a few more miles, I got a bit bothered by the annoying shake this bike has. I'm not sure I could recommend this to anyone at this point, but maybe the men's frame is more stable. This picture is actually a click away from the video I took of the uncontrollable shake that occurs when you take your hands off the bars. I tried everything I could think of to stop this from happening, and while the smaller tires on this in the video didn't actually stop the shake, they did make re-gaining control easier because they are lighter.
Image


Actually your problem is already mentioned in a few blogs. The 2010 female model was found to be too flimsy for heavier (male) riders, the 2011 was built sturdier with more welding spots. The men's style is sturdier and less likely to shake.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby mobybike » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:26 pm

georgefromvt wrote:
Actually your problem is already mentioned in a few blogs. The 2010 female model was found to be too flimsy for heavier (male) riders, the 2011 was built sturdier with more welding spots. The men's style is sturdier and less likely to shake.


Thanks Georgefromvt,
Yes this is correct. I was told that the 2011 frame was sturdier, I knew about the 2010 problem, but as you can see, this 2011 frame still shakes. Does anyone who owns a mens frame on this forum have this problem?
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Re: iZip Zuma by Currie Technologies review

Postby georgefromvt » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:40 pm

tuxman wrote:I can't get sweaty so I don't pedal on the way to work, but can on the way home. Arrived home today with the battery meter showing green! No mistake, it was measuring 39.4v after 5.3 miles. I calculated that I've used about 4ah out of 12ah. Using a 2ah charger, it took 2 hours to recharge to full.

This time I pedaled at take off so I could quickly get up to speed, and then again lightly on a few of the hills. Ha! I don't need a horn, I just mash the front brake and the noise is more than loud enough. Other than my complaint about the front brake, this bike is real transportation.

Even more gear this trip, carrying my laptop along with my charger, rain gear, work clothes, my new pressing of Fleetwood Mac Rumors 2x45rpm LP, and bottle of Jim Beam that I picked up at the store along the way.

Here I am, puffing on a cigar, sipping on some whiskey, listening to Fleetwood Mac as I update you about my Zuma. Cheers!

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You might want to ask Tuxman if his Men's style bike shakes. I have an RMARTIN but plan on purchasing a second bike next summer and the IZIP Zuma is top of the list. Does the bike shake at low speeds too, also if you don't mind me asking? How heavy are you? I'm 210, almost the limit for most bikes. Sorry your bike shakes but step thru design "female" bikes are inherently less rigid compared to the male version. I'm lucky, my RMARTIN doesn't shake but I seldom ride over 20 MPH, also the bike is very heavy. While the weight adds strength, it's a hassle carrying up/ down stairs. I live on a second floor apartment and carry it up/ down every evening on my rides.
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Re: iZip Zuma by Currie Technologies review

Postby mobybike » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:23 pm

georgefromvt wrote:
You might want to ask Tuxman if his Men's style bike shakes. I have an RMARTIN but plan on purchasing a second bike next summer and the IZIP Zuma is top of the list. Does the bike shake at low speeds too, also if you don't mind me asking? How heavy are you? I'm 210, almost the limit for most bikes. Sorry your bike shakes but step thru design "female" bikes are inherently less rigid compared to the male version. I'm lucky, my RMARTIN doesn't shake but I seldom ride over 20 MPH, also the bike is very heavy. While the weight adds strength, it's a hassle carrying up/ down stairs. I live on a second floor apartment and carry it up/ down every evening on my rides.


I was hoping to get Tuxman to tell us if his bike shakes, this is his thread after all.

This bike starts to shake at about 7-8mph
I am 220 LBS
I didn't buy the bike for myself, we got it for my wife and daughter who are both well within the weight limits soaking wet and carrying bricks on their heads.
They both have problems with this bike and my wife has never been back on it. Both had crashes because of weight placement and PAS engaging when they didn't expect it. I watched my daughter shoot unexpectedly right toward the front of a large truck head on.

The RMARTIN in your picture has the better design for the frame, and shouldn't shake, the battery is between the axles and low.

The Zuma has really good power, and with the small tire on it like in my video, it's even got noticeably more torque. But this Zuma frame design in a step through is not a choice I would recommend to anyone because of the shake and weight placement.
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(iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:51 am

My cantilever does not shake like Mobybike step through. I also have a milk crate on the back and fill it with all of my gear daily. (laptop, rain gear, lunch, cellphone, wallet and more) without any weight placement issues. I am 200lbs @ 6ft (91kg @ 1.8m)

Very sad to hear the step through model has these issues. I was VERY close to buying one. At least we can warn others.

BIG MEN: Do not buy the 2010 red step through iZip Zuma; buy the sturdier cantilever.

:idea: cantilever... strong enough for a man or a large woman
Last edited by tuxman on Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:38 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Front Fender

Postby tuxman » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:36 am

Universal MTB front fender bolts on to the top of the fork. Used zip ties to attach the side rods to the bottom. Works well.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:02 pm

Vibration is from the road in this video. Camera mounted to frame.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby alins » Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:11 pm

Women's iZip Zuma on sale (today only) at cowboom.com (BestBuy's Outlet) for $869.99 + $5.00 shipping:
http://www.cowboom.com/deal-of-the-day.cfm
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Gordo » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:30 pm

tuxman wrote:Glad you like it. So far I've put over 500 miles on mine and the brakes have settled down. The brakes are still noisy, but will stop on a dime even when wet.


Take the pads out and file a 45* angle on the leading edges of the pads. Try an 1/8" wide area first and increase it if needed. We used this procedure on everything from trucks to metallic race car pads to motorcycle and go-carts. Now most pads come with an angle on the leading edge from the manufacturers.
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iZip Zuma E3 2012

Postby tuxman » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:49 pm

Looks like they fixed the issue with the brakes by going with Avid BB5 and the issue with the fork by going with a curved style. Looks nice too.

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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:34 am

Since I've logged well over 1,000 miles I felt it was time to replace the brake pads. Keeping the cost per mile as low as possible, I went with aftermarket pads rather than replacing them with Avid BB5.

4 pair Semi-Metallic pads from discobrakes.com was $23.99

No squeaks, no shutter, no noise. Very smooth. The Tektro brakes them self are fine brakes; it was the oem pads giving me issues all along.

Wish I would have changed out the pads much sooner!
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