(iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

General Discussion about electric bicycles.

Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Jason27 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:25 am

Thanks for the advertisement !
My ebike:
Diamondback with WE 800 watt hub motor with AllCell 48V 12AH Lithium Manganese battery pack.
36v battery as backup.

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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:03 pm

A month ago I slammed into a speed bump that had been paved over with black top at 25mph. It hurt like hell and I felt it for the next few days. Lucky for me I didn't lay the bike down. I did however end up damaging the Bafang BPM2 motor. Since I don't have the special tool to open it up, I can only guess that I bent the axle or broke a gear. All the halls check out. Motor works when unloaded at full speed. The local Currie dealer was very helpful even though I didn't buy my bike from him. The warranty service would cover the motor repair, but during the turnaround time, it cost me $150 a week for a taxi. It was cheaper for me to buy another motor since I can have it in days.

Going on 6 months at 50+ miles a week; bike is holding up great. I would much rather ride my Zuma than take a taxi, even in the rain. Found it hard to hold the twist throttle with winter gloves on. Would like to get a thumb style throttle but for now I've wrapped rubber bands around it for better grip.

Replaced the Bafang BPM2 motor with a 350w mini geared. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33763 The mini is a good match with the stock Zuma controller 36v@25a=900w and stock 14T-34T freewheel. Very fun, light weight but just not as powerful.

Came to the conclusion that the BPM2 is a great motor and very powerful. It's rated for 48v, however Currie only offers this bike at 36v. This motor would really shine at 48v.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:52 pm

It was after reading this very informative thread, I was in a similar position to Tuxman. I wanted a commute bike, pre-built, 15 miles round trip to work, steep hill at work end...etc. I went out and test rode an E+ Bike, with the battery in the front hub, rear direct hub drive...Nice bike, but NiMh batteries...and at $2400.... a front wheel that would have to be replaced when the batteries need to be replaced...and the dealer told me that I could only buy what he had, since the factory was not going to make these bikes anymore, and focus on custom builds....
http://epluselectricbike.com/
Image

So I liked the bikes that Tuxman had looked at, and after spending some time reviewing the Zuma, I had decided on that one, only to find out, it was out of stock! and the price had jumped up a bit...Now 1999....
zuma.jpg
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The only thing holding me off from Tuxman's number 1 pick, the Prodeco Phantom X was availability, especially after reading about all the delays...but I had now picked this bike:
http://www.prodecotech.com/prodeco_008.htm
Image


So I picked up the phone and called Prodeco. Spoke to Steve. Got all my answers right away. Then he checked on availability, and found a dealer in Texas with one of the newer builds (almost a version X2, has the 36V LiFe4's 12Ah long pack), and I paid $1099 plus $97 for bikeflights.com through Fedex. And 3 days later, I had a Phantom X in my garage....
DSC_3289small.JPG
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:08 pm

So, the box was a bit banged up, but nothing damaged due to excellent packing....
DSC_3290small.JPG


DSC_3291small.JPG


DSC_3292small.JPG


DSC_3293small.JPG


DSC_3294small.JPG
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Brentis » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:12 pm

Nice reviewing Art.
Looks to be well packed.
Lots of pics please. :mrgreen:
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:15 pm

Neatly packed boxes inside:

DSC_3295small.JPG


Battery very well protected:

DSC_3296small.JPG


Manual, tools, charger etc....

DSC_3297small.JPG


And 15 mins later......

DSC_3298small.JPG
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Racer_X » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:28 pm

Thanks for the pics, looks good. I think it was a good improvement to put those battery support bars.
I think the older version of Phantom X did not come with those support beams.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:00 pm

So, I added a couple of things right away....

Must have a Cycle Analyst, great product!
http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml

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Fenders from Topeak:
http://www.topeak.com/products/Fenders/DeFenderFX
Mirror:
http://www.rei.com/product/723518/mirry ... ike-mirror

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Longer seat post (I'm 6'4")....and new seat (nothing wrong with the seat that comes with the bike, just personal preference...

photo.JPG
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Brentis » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:29 pm

More C.A. shots. :)
Does the folding bike frame, feel as solid as a simple triangle framed Mountain bike?
Whats the top speed & avg?

Keep up the great work. :mrgreen:
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:42 pm

Racer_X wrote:Thanks for the pics, looks good. I think it was a good improvement to put those battery support bars.
I think the older version of Phantom X did not come with those support beams.



Yes, the beams support the battery, but one problem, the welds on the rack can pop on bumps.....like this....

New Picture (2).bmp


New Picture (1).bmp


But, and easy fix at Home Depot....Steel wire organizers with rubber inserts....strong and more flexible than a weld at that spot....Too much stress from the long battery...but should be fine now...I highly recommend this addition to anyone with the long battery....

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The only other problem I had was the seat was at an angle, was not the seat rails, but was the way the top mount on the post was pinned in crooked, but I needed to replace the post with a longer one anyway....(even though Prodeco sent me a new seat! nice service)....

Picture1small.jpg
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So the new post (taller) and seat are great:

~1617073.JPG
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Brentis » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:53 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:It was after reading this very informative thread, I was in a similar position to Tuxman. I wanted a commute bike, pre-built, 15 miles round trip to work, steep hill at work end...etc. I went out and test rode an E+ Bike, with the battery in the front hub, rear direct hub drive...Nice bike, but NiMh batteries...and at $2400.... a front wheel that would have to be replaced when the batteries need to be replaced...and the dealer told me that I could only buy what he had, since the factory was not going to make these bikes anymore, and focus on custom builds....
http://epluselectricbike.com/
Image...


Good summation. Front battery/DDrear hub looks clean installed,
But, I think physics dictate, that we should remove weight from the wheel.
Unsprung mass.
10-30lbs Rear D.D.' are bad enough. :roll:
Hence LFP, AJ, Miles, Recumpence on & on & on gwhy! :wink:
So many guys building sweeet chain driven bikes.

But I enjoy DD simplicity. As well.
I would be interested in finding a dead battery E+ bike.
IIRC this is a domestically, US produced(machined/wound) motor, Rear D.D.. :wink:
As close to local as I can get.
I know, Bionx is/was just down the HWY. :wink:
No way they were winding Bionx rear hubs in the G.T.A.
That's done in China my friends.

Has anyone here on the sphere tested/modified one?
Not finding much relevant modding info.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:07 pm

Brentis wrote:More C.A. shots. :)
Does the folding bike frame, feel as solid as a simple triangle framed Mountain bike?
Whats the top speed & avg?

Keep up the great work. :mrgreen:


So the bike frame feels solid, not flexing. I'm 200 lbs, and I don't notice any bad qualities in the ride on rough roads, other than the broken rack mentioned above, but that was any easy fix.

The bike on flats goes around 18-20mph with pedaling. The CA shows the amps drop slowly from about 10amps at 15mph, 4amps at 17mph to zero amps at 20mph. You cant go faster than 20mph on flats because the bike goes into regen and takes HUGH effort to push the negative amps back into the battery. Top speed has been 34mph on my big downhill leaving work. 1.25miles with avg of 8% and some spots closer to 16%....I have seen -12amps going into the battery in regen. I've also seen upto 52 volts during regen, from a freshly charged pack which is at rest voltage of 43v.

On the way up the hill in the morning, I am in 2nd and 1st gear on the steeps at 9mph with some medium to aggressive pedaling and drawing 20amps, and a few sections of 4th gear at 14mph and 16amps.
I really wish I could "unlimit" the 20amps and 20mph to say 25amps and 25mph, it would really be a nicer ride. But unless I go get a different controller, and go 48V at around what I paid for the whole bike...I'm going to deal with it for now....still want to go 48v and replace that long pack on the back. I think it looks funny, and i'd like to get one of the Topeak racks:
http://www.topeak.com/products/Racks/Ex ... _discMount

New Picture (5).bmp
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and put the 48v in the trunkbag:
http://www.topeak.com/products/Bags/MTXTrunkBagDXP

New Picture (4).bmp
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Brentis » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:26 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
Brentis wrote:More C.A. shots. :)
Does the folding bike frame, feel as solid as a simple triangle framed Mountain bike?
Whats the top speed & avg?

Keep up the great work. :mrgreen:


So the bike frame feels solid, not flexing. I'm 200 lbs, and I don't notice any bad qualities in the ride on rough roads, other than the broken rack mentioned above, but that was any easy fix.

The bike on flats goes around 18-20mph with pedaling. The CA shows the amps drop slowly from about 10amps at 15mph, 4amps at 17mph to zero amps at 20mph. You cant go faster than 20mph on flats because the bike goes into regen and takes HUGH effort to push the negative amps back into the battery. Top speed has been 34mph on my big downhill leaving work. 1.25miles with avg of 8% and some spots closer to 16%....I have seen -12amps going into the battery in regen. I've also seen upto 52 volts during regen, from a freshly charged pack which is at rest voltage of 43v.

On the way up the hill in the morning, I am in 2nd and 1st gear on the steeps at 9mph with some medium to aggressive pedaling and drawing 20amps, and a few sections of 4th gear at 14mph and 16amps.
I really wish I could "unlimit" the 20amps and 20mph to say 25amps and 25mph, it would really be a nicer ride. But unless I go get a different controller, and go 48V at around what I paid for the whole bike...I'm going to deal with it for now....still want to go 48v and replace that long pack on the back. I think it looks funny, and i'd like to get one of the Topeak racks:
http://www.topeak.com/products/Racks/Ex ... _discMount

New Picture (5).bmp


and put the 48v in the trunkbag:
http://www.topeak.com/products/Bags/MTXTrunkBagDXP

New Picture (4).bmp


Interesting that is regens @ 20mph.
Not to sound harsh.
i would hate this setup.
I have not rode a PAS that was natural like a twist throttle.
Hand throttle is safer,to me. Regen could be added. if you used a new controller.
I assume this is reg. 3 phase hub motor.
Look to the LYEN (New For sale section)for a new controller & throttle.
cure what ail's ya' :mrgreen:
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:15 pm

Brentis wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:
Brentis wrote:


Interesting that is regens @ 20mph.
Not to sound harsh.
i would hate this setup.
I have not rode a PAS that was natural like a twist throttle.
Hand throttle is safer,to me. Regen could be added. if you used a new controller.
I assume this is reg. 3 phase hub motor.
Look to the LYEN (New For sale section)for a new controller & throttle.
cure what ail's ya' :mrgreen:


So the PX has a thumb throttle and rides along just fine with out pedaling at around 17 mph on flat, no wind....so it's not a traditional PAS at all. You punch the throttle and go....
What they have done with the controller that I like and dislike (a bit :wink: ) is to use the hall sensors to limit the amps out to the 3 phase hub motor (500w rated, but will run at 720w up the hill continuous and barely get above room temp) so that as you approach 20mph, the amps get reduced. So if you were on flat and throttled up to 17mph with no assist, you would see about 4amps and if you got a sudden headwind, you will still see 17mph, but the amps will go up a bit, like 6-7amp to hold the speed. But as you pedal toward the magic 20mph, amps go down to zero, then each mph over 20 will add more and more neg amps, so auto regen. if you are on a downhill and take your thumb off the throttle, you still get regen, hence the part I dislike, always regen at 20....

But overall, I really like this setup....just want to get to 25mph with pedal assist....so, I've heard someone around here has just put a 48V 20ah ping on with the stock controller and is getting 27mph on flats....just want to know if the controller will stand up over time
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Racer_X » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:59 am

I really wish I could "unlimit" the 20amps and 20mph to say 25amps and 25mph, it would really be a nicer ride. But unless I go get a different controller, and go 48V at around what I paid for the whole bike...I'm going to deal with it for now....still want to go 48v and replace that long pack on the back. I think it looks funny, and i'd like to get one of the Topeak racks:

I have been riding my DD hub motor on 48v and I have been getting 1200w. If I where you I would get a booster battery pack (maybe a 5s 10ah for an extra 20v.) That will bring you to 60v hot off the charger which is the standard for 48v. I would also switch the controller to a 9 FET 36-72v 30amp after you get bored of 48v. After 3 years I have now been personally thinking of getting the 9 FET controller for my solution, there about $89. That would increase my torque and top speed to around 33mph+ and be pretty safe for the engine or controller. The plus about the controller you get 1. Regen, 2. three speed 3. cruise control. offcourse those addons are extra.

I appreciate that your updating us about the Phantom X, I think it is a great base bike and you get alot for those $1100.00.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Art Vandelay » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:00 am

Racer_X wrote:
I really wish I could "unlimit" the 20amps and 20mph to say 25amps and 25mph, it would really be a nicer ride. But unless I go get a different controller, and go 48V at around what I paid for the whole bike...I'm going to deal with it for now....still want to go 48v and replace that long pack on the back. I think it looks funny, and i'd like to get one of the Topeak racks:

I have been riding my DD hub motor on 48v and I have been getting 1200w. If I where you I would get a booster battery pack (maybe a 5s 10ah for an extra 20v.) That will bring you to 60v hot off the charger which is the standard for 48v. I would also switch the controller to a 9 FET 36-72v 30amp after you get bored of 48v. After 3 years I have now been personally thinking of getting the 9 FET controller for my solution, there about $89. That would increase my torque and top speed to around 33mph+ and be pretty safe for the engine or controller. The plus about the controller you get 1. Regen, 2. three speed 3. cruise control. offcourse those addons are extra.

I appreciate that your updating us about the Phantom X, I think it is a great base bike and you get alot for those $1100.00.



I was looking at this controller....which would hook into my CA so I can set max amps, speed, etc, and I could still go to 48v down the road...opinions?
Only problem I have is right now the controller in the PX has a very clean installation inside a plastic box, that the battery slides into and I think the dimensions of this controller would be too big to fit inside. So I might have to change to the rack and bag mentioned above and go 48v all at once...so could get expensive fast....
http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_controllers.php

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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Green Machine » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:39 am

I noticed that the izip has realeased a new model.

This is a nice looking ebike :)

It is a little pricey at $2500.

After reading tuxman's review and seeing this bike..wow...seems like finally some good options are coming to the market for someone who wants a ready to ride ebike.

I wonder if this has to do with currie recently being bought out by high end European ebike producer.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby mr.electric » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:51 pm

The izip enlightened bikes have been out for a while maybe a year or more. They do look great. I saw one of these on ebay for $400 brand new but not working. Currie has come a long way since the original USPD bikes with the little two stage chain reduction on the rear hub.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:46 pm

Art Vandelay,

Congrats on your Phantom X. I enjoy reading what you have to say about it and all your photos.

Thanks for sharing!
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby tuxman » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:57 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
I was looking at this controller....which would hook into my CA so I can set max amps, speed, etc, and I could still go to 48v down the road...opinions?



IMHO pedaling is part of the fun. When I replace my broken motor with a smaller one I thought it was going to suck on hills. Turns out, it was much more fun. It was just the right balance of power to weight.

If the upgrade bug has you, figure out how much you want to spend per mile. If you spend $2,000 and put 2k miles on the bike, that's a buck per mile. And don't get that controller. Get one that is rated at least to 100v and 50a. That will give you flexibility when building your own battery pack which you will soon want to do along with a new motor which is right around the corner. New headlights. New tires. New brakes. New crank. New shifters. New forks. New frame. Then you ask why did I buy a pre-built bike in the first place? :wink:

If money was not an issue I would have a custom bike from Hi-Power Cycles. Realistically, it came down to want vs need and what I could afford. The Phantom X really is a great value.

How many miles will you ride this year?
Last edited by tuxman on Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby maxcruiser » Sat May 19, 2012 10:39 pm

Izip Zuma is a beautiful classy bike. Here are the specs I found.

Specifications

• Battery type: Lithium Ion battery
• Battery rating: 36 volts/ 12 AH
• Product weight: 57 pounds
• Max rider weight: 240 pounds
• Power : 500 watts
• Rated range: 20 to 30 miles
• Color: Red
• Frame type: low step cantilever
• Top speed: 20 mph/32 km/h

This site http://www.motorizedbicyclesportal.com says the average retail price of this bike is almost $1900. Is there a cheaper alternative?

Thanks for your help.
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Scarface98 » Sun May 20, 2012 4:12 pm

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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Drewskers » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:17 am

Hi, new guy here. I bought a 2012 iZip Zuma (men's frame) two months ago. My first e-bike, and my first cruiser since my much loved first bike - a 1962 Western Flyer when I got was about 8 years old! :D

I am loving this bike, it is a complete blast to ride! I have completed several 30-mile bike trips using PAS mode with about half the battery charge remaining at the end. And that includes some steep grades. I'll have to push further to find the limit!

I've fitted panniers that are sized to fit grocery bags and do most of my grocery shopping and other errands by bike. I'm a 215 lb. guy and routinely haul home 30-40 lbs. of groceries 2miles, uphill most of the way. The Zuma handles the chore with ease.

The other thing that is remarkable about the Zuma is the confidence it inspires when mixing it up in traffic. Particularly at controlled intersections, the power and acceleration combined with the grippy, fat Kenda Koniption tires really makes riding the urban setting much less a chore. The only caveat is that most car drivers are not used to bikes moving so quickly. I get a lot of cars passing with the intent of making a right turn and you have to watch for them even more so than on a regular bike.

I appreciate all the postings here about the previous models of the Zuma. I am happy to report I have not experienced any handling or vibration issues whatsoever with my 2012. It doesn't have a suspension fork or seat shock absorber, but the tires soak up a lot even when inflated to 65 psi. The brakes are powerful and yeah sometimes they grind and groan. I've had disk brakes on mountain bikes and it's always the same issue. I've gotten used to it.

By the way there is an iZip dealer here in Seattle (as well as other brands, but not Prodego or Pedego), and they are generous with test rides. It was great to be able to ride several different bikes and choose the one I liked the best.

If I can answer any questions about the bike, feel free to ask!
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Antonio » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:08 am

Drewskers,

I noticed that you wrote that you bought the iZip Zuma WITHOUT the suspension forks. I also live in Seattle. Where did you get the bike? Is it the "NEW" iZip Zuma E3? That bike looks different. Solid colors, not the "old Schwinn" look of the bikes being discussed here. The new one also has a four bolt "through the tube" fork stem. Is the is the bike you bought? Pictures? And again, where did you pick it up?

Thanks,
Antonio
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Re: (iZip Zuma) vs (Pedego Cruiser) vs (Prodeco Phantom X)

Postby Antonio » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:24 am

Drewskers wrote:Hi, new guy here. I bought a 2012 iZip Zuma (men's frame) two months ago. My first e-bike, and my first cruiser since my much loved first bike - a 1962 Western Flyer when I got was about 8 years old! :D

I am loving this bike, it is a complete blast to ride! I have completed several 30-mile bike trips using PAS mode with about half the battery charge remaining at the end. And that includes some steep grades. I'll have to push further to find the limit!

I've fitted panniers that are sized to fit grocery bags and do most of my grocery shopping and other errands by bike. I'm a 215 lb. guy and routinely haul home 30-40 lbs. of groceries 2miles, uphill most of the way. The Zuma handles the chore with ease.

The other thing that is remarkable about the Zuma is the confidence it inspires when mixing it up in traffic. Particularly at controlled intersections, the power and acceleration combined with the grippy, fat Kenda Koniption tires really makes riding the urban setting much less a chore. The only caveat is that most car drivers are not used to bikes moving so quickly. I get a lot of cars passing with the intent of making a right turn and you have to watch for them even more so than on a regular bike.

I appreciate all the postings here about the previous models of the Zuma. I am happy to report I have not experienced any handling or vibration issues whatsoever with my 2012. It doesn't have a suspension fork or seat shock absorber, but the tires soak up a lot even when inflated to 65 psi. The brakes are powerful and yeah sometimes they grind and groan. I've had disk brakes on mountain bikes and it's always the same issue. I've gotten used to it.



Drewskers,

I noticed that you wrote that you bought the iZip Zuma WITHOUT the suspension forks. I also live in Seattle. Where did you get the bike? Is it the "NEW" iZip Zuma E3? That bike looks different. Solid colors, not the "old Schwinn" look of the bikes being discussed here. The new one also has a four bolt "through the tube" fork stem. Is the is the bike you bought? Pictures? And again, where did you pick it up?

Thanks,

By the way there is an iZip dealer here in Seattle (as well as other brands, but not Prodego or Pedego), and they are generous with test rides. It was great to be able to ride several different bikes and choose the one I liked the best.

If I can answer any questions about the bike, feel free to ask!
Antonio
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