fastest hub motor + controller combo available today?

Hi all,

I just finished building an ebike, but now looking to build a fast recumbent trike. I am wondering what is the fastest hub motor + controller combo possible? I seen on youtube some guy got 66mph on his bike using 100V or so. Is there any other people out there that gotten their bike to go over that speed? I mean going over 66mph WITH load (i.e. you riding it and NOT on a bench running a motor without any load)

Thanks

an enertrack 602 with a Kelly controller. or a PMG/Agni/Mars motor would get you there cheaper. all of these will be ridiculously overkill on a trike.

All the motor you listed are motorcycle hub motor. I was thinking of something more in line with a bike. But thanks for the recommendation.

For how long? Some very powerfull combinations have lasted only a few minuites.

Generally the 5300 series crystalytes are considered the most robust " intended for a bike" motors.

The faster windings like the 5303 go fast, and like to fry controllers. More people are succesful with slower windings like the 5304, at least with the controller lasting part.

Lyens, in the for sale section sells some hot controllers.

My racing bike, that lasted for about 10 miles in competition conditions, just touched 50 mph once, and reliably went 47 mph. 9 continent 2807 motor, Lyens 12 fet controller, 110 v fully charged. (25s lipo).

The big deal is the duration of the ride. You can push a lot more watts for a 1/4 mile than you can for a 10 mile race. I've come to the conclusion that if you want to actually ride the bike around, keeping the watts below 3000 and the speed closer to 40 mph is best, for "bike stuff".

The REAL go fast boys are mostly using motors rated to 5000 watts or so, instead of 800. So NOT bike stuff.

im running a hs35 at 100v 65 amps and getting burst speeds of 100km/h. im using a lyens 18fet and 20c turnigy lipo. the only thing that ive modified is the resistor mod to r12 to get regen up to 100v. with cooling holes in the motor and using it in the city getting to that speed lasts seconds at best; most of the time im cruising at traffic speeds up to about 70 km/h or alittle higher when im passing cars. I don't know how long the motor would last if held wide open, but you'd be at about 100-105 km/h until the bat was half empty, then the voltage would start to sag and you'd loose top end.

A drilled 5303 or similar would get you up to speed, but the X5s will burn up running that much wattage for long periods of time, and it will require a 24fet or 200+ amp Kelly controller to run reliably. Your best bet for that much power would be a large brushed motor like the Agni /perm 132 or a dual Astro setup from recumpence will get you there with a bit more elegance.

mvly said:

All the motor you listed are motorcycle hub motor. I was thinking of something more in line with a bike. But thanks for the recommendation.

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Incorrect...only the first motor he listed was a frock motor, the last 3 are all brushed inrunners.
If you want to save weight and some well machined components on your trike, look up Recumpence for a full rc setup
as also suggested in post above.

KiM

Yup.

since the " bike stuff" mostly direct drive hubmotors (frockmotor), is designed for about 500-1500 watts and speeds up to 30 mph, your best bet is very likely to be non hub, using motors and controllers designed for much higher output. My experience is that beyond 40 mph, and around 2500 watts, reliability goes flying out the window with the dd hubmotors for bikes.

Paul D proved that at the death race, winning over several ebikes, both hub and non hub, and a huge field of very fast gasoline powered bicycles. His RC drive setup was perfectly engineered, and lasted the race at incredible speed. I was shocked how small his battery was. He could do that because his perfect setup wasted none of the power into heat, like our hubmotors were doing.

Meanwhile most of us on ebikes had either mechanical difficulty with non hub drive trains, blew up dual motors with synchronization issues, or just melted down hubmotors. But do bear in mind, getting it wrong with non hub can blow up just as much stuff as hubmotor hot rods do. Paul had it perfect, his match of controller, motor, battery voltage, and gearing was just right.

So do bring money to the table, if you want to join the 60 mph club. Getting it wrong blows motors or controllers. Listen to the Non hub drive gurus for motor and controler choices. They've spent the money on the experiments already and know.

One more time, how long do you want 60 mph for? 10 min at 60 is possible for many hubmotors. Take any largish dd hubmotor, throw 120v 50 amps at it, and tuck. Drilled covers will let it cool off quicker after the ride.

dogman said:

...My experience is that beyond 40 mph, and around 2500 watts, reliability goes flying out the window with the dd hubmotors for bikes...

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Your experience is in the desert mountains, in the worst heat conditions. Here in the north, those numbers are acceptable for a big hubmotor, and I've been feeding more than that for 7 month now.

Then, a non-hub setup has efficiency and power potential that no hub can match, and I'm building one actually, but hubs have so much advantage in simplicity and silence that I doubt that they won't be improved in a near future. The 40HP hub is only a step away in its development, but this step could be long to be done if we rely on China to do it.

It looks like I would need an outrunner motor and mount to hit > 60mph safely without killing the motor. Now my follow up question would be how more efficient are the out runner motors compared to the hub motors assuming both are propeling the bike at 45mph?

hello mvly

I am the guy of the 66mph with 100V and 18 fets controller.

I got 112kmh recently with a kelly 220A 120V controller that i know that will not blow like 7 times like the 18 fets controllr did...
My lastest experiment confirmed that i can keep 100kmh no prob continuous( tested during 2 minutes to reach stabilized temp of 120celsius)

My motor ever overheated to 187 celsius on teh winding without any problem... U often sustain an average temp of 130 celsius on offroad ride with alot of non efficient stop and go.

I was really impressed to see my 5303 able to sustain 100kmh with stabilized conditions of 120 celsius.

It draw 8kW and around 85A. All you need is a controller that can sustain that power and a good old X5 with the proper winding fo rthe wheel diameter you have.

Generally when your system is well balanced, the real speed you'll get is really close to 70% of the no load speed of the wheel.

since temp is stable at 100kmh at 120 celsius and that i had experience with 160 and 180 celsius temp too, my guess i sthat 140kmh is acheivable for like 10-15 sec with double of the power

mvly said:

....but now looking to build a fast recumbent trike.

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Most of these guys are refering to "upright" bikes. ( except Doc)
Since yours will be a recumbent trike, you should need less power for the speeds discussed

Depends on budget and what your preferences are. DoctorBass is the expert on 530X Crystalytes at high speed, though you may need a 24" wheel on the back as I'm not sure a 20" would work? If Doc says you need 100V and 18 FETs, you should believe him. He has tried fried lesser components, so that you don't have to.

I know you posted you want only hub info, but...just for discussion:

Recumpence can CNC you an awesome and beautiful non-hub hot rod system, but be prepared to pay top-dollar for very high quality components.

For a budget build, you will have to do some fabrication yourself, but...PaulD used a Turnigy 80-100 (on backorder as I am certain many are copying his build) using 72-ish volts through a 12-FET controller with minor mods.

Re wattage and reliablity,, much depends on the rider and the kind of ride.

I do ride the worst weather, but more likely my issue is hard abusive riding. Racing for one, and steep dirt even worse. I melted the snot out of one 9c motor in about 45 min. Ambient temp that day,,,,, 50F. Watts, about 3000 peak, and up those hills, I was peaking it a lot. So steep that speed was stalling down to 10 mph, which makes the motor into a heater.

I'm just a destruction test kinda guy. But running below 2500 watts, even I don't melt motors too fast.

I KNOW more careful people run a lot more watts. But me and the rest of the dumbshits are better off to limit to aobut 2500w. I got a right hand that will never learn. Has a brain of it's own just like the third leg. 2500 watts is still 40 amps of 72v on flatter terrain, and fast enough for most bikes brakes.