John in CR wrote:Mighty Volt,
Excellent. Run the factory controller in stock form before modding it for higher power, so you can get a baseline performance. Be sure to include actively ventilating it in your mods. That should enable you up to fun levels, though not eye popping with those fets. 60V nominal if the caps are up to it, and double the current by coppering half the shunt length should be fun. I can't wait to see how you use it.
After blowing SuperV's big controller I was forced to do an inventory of blown controllers and find one I thought I could repair myself to put on my cargo bike, freeing up that 24fet4100 brick to install on SuperV. Heat damage, other than blown fets accounted for almost half of the failures, and 3 out of 5 of the modded factory controllers. Mostly it was melted phase wires that either shorted to each other or to caps. From now on I will ventilate any controller I take to higher power, including my one remaining 24fet that I'm going to dial up to 150A battery side in gradual increments.
Blown controllers has been the achilles heel of just about everyone's high power pursuits, but the only ventilated controller I've blown was my last remaining factory controller that I was pushing past triple the factory settings, and that occurred on the first hill I encountered after forgetting to turn the fan on. Ventilation works well, and we've been pushing a 4310 based controller at 80A for months as proof, though we really should get in there and beef up the primary wires and traces to minimize unnecessary heat, since the air blowing out of that controller is quite warm.
I successfully repaired one of my factory controllers, YAY, so I'm moving it to my daily rider which isn't fun anymore thanks to the Sheriff. It's will still get 5kw via the new and improved ventilated stock controllers. The 24fet will get dual blowers, doubled up wiring, and thickened traces. It's been dependable at 100A, so with mods, 150A should be no problemo.
I'll do a post soon about ventilated controllers.
John in CR wrote:Grinding action, just wrong wiring combo I hope. Until you are certain about correct wiring, only try small throttle pulses.
Does the axle turn with grinding, or only cogging resistance?
Don't you have a working ebike to just borrow the throttle from?
How are you doing a run test, clamping axle flats in a vise with some flat stock protecting the axle from the vise's teeth? Be careful, it ain't no puny ebike motor.
Tires, I would think so, but I'm no expert.
The Mighty Volt wrote:Like a Lyen, it has a red wire which needs wiring to the controller positive.
Harold in CR wrote:$250.00 all in, EH ??? That include shipping and other Govt fees ??? Is yours the 72V model ??
Looks like I need to sell some more wood.
liveforphysics wrote:mvly wrote:Not to thread crap, but unless you got some hard data, I will call this bullshit for now. No doubt it looks like.a clean build, but other than that, I don't see what is special.
mvly = f*cking retard.
This is like a hubmotor for a car fitted to a bicycle. This should make for the most powerful hubmotor bicycle that has ever roamed the streets.
For perspective, a 9C has 169.6cm^2 of active flux area.
Johns new motor has 423.9cm^2 of active flux area, and that area is on a 35% longer moment arm.
In the worst case it should do the output of about about 3.3 of the 9C motors in that single motor, and since a substantial amount of the resistive heat loss in a 9C is from the end-turns, and you've got 3.3x 9C motors worth of active magnetic material with roughly 1.35x the increase in end-turn loss over a single 9c, I'm predicting it will be more like 4-5 9c's worth of motor potential in that back wheel.
And just a single 9C can rip pretty damn hard when driven right!
This thing should fly!
John in CR wrote:Imagine if you push that 44 pounder to it's limits. My 1500W motors handle 10kw peaks without issue as long as you avoid getting bogged down on hills. If you're willing to accept the weight, the big issue with these scooter motors is the controllers.
Harold in CR wrote:Did we lose a bunch of photos with the latest Site updates ??? I find many "File does not exist any longer" notices when I click on a download to see a photo ????????
John in CR wrote:My main hubbies, comparable to the new Xlytes, but with a 40mm stator and a higher Kv at 16rpm/V even blew the super Methods controller, 18 by 4110fets and beefed up everything, the 2 days after LFP left last year. It's the current limiting that kills them staring down the barrel of the low resistance windings that need almost 30mph in a 20" rim before BEMF gets strong enough to help control things.
I don't know what's wrong with Hubmonster's factory controller. I thought I could get away with doubling the current with a 200lb lighter vehicle and the controller much more exposed to the wind, but it couldn't handle it and I wasn't even riding it near max performance.
Everyone seems to have trouble once you cross the 100A barrier, and further evidence is the Chinese going to monster size motors so they don't have to cross it. Arlo1 has had the best luck pushing them well beyond that, but that's with an X5304 which is a far easier load. I have an X5304 that was running fairly conservatively, and I took the controller off of it to run on one of my main hubbies in a 20". It took off way stronger than the X5 was running, but the controller blew the first time I gave it full throttle, a result that still baffles me.
The Sevcon's Luke has for brushless are apparently up to the task, but the setup is a mountain I don't have the tools to cross.
I've had luck with my Lyen 24fet 4110 controller...realiable since Sep of last year, but I did tone the settings down to 80A after running at 110A for a little while to make sure it stayed reliable. I beefed up the traces, doubled up the 10ga phase wires, and halved the shunt resistance to double the regen current. I was planning to add to blowers to bring in fresh air and keep the insides cool as well as almost double the surface area for FET cooling, all with plans to run Hubmonster with it, but now I need to put it back on my daily rider since I'm out of controllers. Blue is down for a quick overhaul (better batts, new wiring harness and bearings, and some beautification) while we're in the meat of rainy season, but I'll keep it conservative until I get another bike going.
I thought I was done with controller problems after learning hard lessons about current limiting, partial throttle, and hills. A year of zero problems really spoiled me, but now that I'm reaching for more performance controller popping is back and it sucks.
John in CR wrote:Beautiful info Arlo1. I haven't been following your work on inductance as closely as I should. Did you measure inductance or was it easily calculated. So it's the inductance that's been killing my controllers, since I'm sure mine are even lower than the HS motors. Have you been able to source any big cores to wind our own toroidal choke coils?
I've got enough magnetite for a few, and it's easy and fun for the kids to collect with a magnet at the beach. I was thinking epoxy+magnetite doughnuts to wrap my phase wires through could be a cool DIY low loss, low force solution. What do you think...worth a try?
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