There's a new sheriff in town (new pics on p5)

[The Mighty Volt]

That's a seriously impressive piece of work.

My brother is a mechanic and is going on a Mech-Engineering Degree course soon, he has spoken to me about chopping-frames and experimenting with new swing-arms.

Any advice you could give us??

One bike I thought was absolutely sex-on-wheels was THIS:

http://bmxmuseum.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=155795&p=3

I would love to convert a standard BMX to something like that, with the rear suspension arms.

[RallySTX]

I can't stop drooling on my keyboard! That thing is efin AWESOME! All I can think is, [my God!] It's already beautiful man, but I admit your mention of a fairing has me curious. Can't wait for more pix. A ytube vid would be sweet! NICE WORK!
Brian L.

[docnjoj]

Greaat job John! this could be the prototype for all light motorcycles of the future! Really fine engineering.
otherDoc

[John in CR]

Any advice you could give us??

Mine are built for the street and are motorized first and bicycles as an afterthought, so long and low is the way to go.

If you can build in geometric flexibility, you'll be glad you did.

That BMX looks easy enough, but there's a reason those never got popular.

I'll just build from scratch from now on, though I'm likely to steal a headset from a bike. An ebike meant for the street can take advantage of lots of room down low that is just air on a bike. I want to start with wider at the pivot for more swingarm space and an easier route to more lateral strength like a moto, and either have a jackshaft or the motor at the pivot to keep the chainline simple.

This was really an experiment to home in on a geometry I want to copy, but with batteries in the frame. The surprising thing to me was that even with my 250lb weight the air shock seems to work fine with that long swingarm.

[John in CR]

Greaat job John! this could be the prototype for all light motorcycles of the future! Really fine engineering.
otherDoc

Thanks Doc. I'm getting there by trial and error. If I could only quickly fab stuff like LFP then I'd be much further along, but yes my optimum for street riding is a blur somewhere between ebikes and motos that both are still missing. For off-road I'm sure E-MTBs will be closer to bicycle stuff in existence, because it's easy to see that lighter is better.

[John in CR]

I can't stop drooling on my keyboard! That thing is efin AWESOME! All I can think is, [my God!] It's already beautiful man, but I admit your mention of a fairing has me curious. Can't wait for more pix. A ytube vid would be sweet! NICE WORK!
Brian L.

Thanks RallySTX,

These should give you an idea. I picked up 2 of these for under $10/ea a few years ago, and this is the first ebike I thought one didn't look out of place. To me it hides the backward stem perfectly, and five 4s Turnigy hardpacks will mount neatly behind the fairing directly in front of the triple clamp headset. Yes, videos to come, but I have to get more brakes first.

Super V front faring a.JPG

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Super V front faring b.JPG

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[etard]

Great job John! I like the setback seat and the fairing is a natural touch too. We need a video to see this thing in action.

[John in CR]

Great job John! I like the setback seat and the fairing is a natural touch too. We need a video to see this thing in action.

All we could do is some straight line no traffic blasts till I get the rear brake done, but there's no good reference in those kinds of videos. It would really be stupid of me to ride aggressively in traffic with only a front brake. I'm pretty sure even with me on it that's it's quicker to 60ft than DocBass's trike, and it's got significantly more top end. That means Doc's drag times will fall as soon as I take it to the strip. My 25yo 170lb son will have a go too, and maybe my 100lb 16yo daughter too. The 3 of us should be a thorough demonstration of effect rider size has on ebike performance.

I'll have to bring my cargo bike too, with it's quite worn Konion pack. Doc would have it off the line, but down the stretch it would get interesting.

[Ykick]

Way too badass! I gotta soft spot for those SuperV's and to see your evolution is mind boggling! Awesome, simply awesome...

[liveforphysics]

That bike is such a beast John! I love it!

You know, my last 3 builds have no had rear brakes on them at all. It's not smart in the event of a failure, but if the front is good, it's all I ride with.


This is by far the most powerful hubmotor bicycle ever seen on this forum, possibly the most powerful hubby bike in the world.

Nice job with it too! It looks great!

[John in CR]

That bike is such a beast John! I love it!
You know, my last 3 builds have no had rear brakes on them at all. It's not smart in the event of a failure, but if the front is good, it's all I ride with.

This is by far the most powerful hubmotor bicycle ever seen on this forum, possibly the most powerful hubby bike in the world.

Nice job with it too! It looks great!

Thanks Luke. I don't dare think about a wheelie with no rear braking at all, and the thought of that one brake failing going down a mountain turns me off to trying to go up one.

I've gotta get a wider throttle resolution. Only about half of the rotation of the throttle is recognized as the throttle range, so with the torque set of halls it requires way too much care in starting. I have a magura throttle. Would it be better to help get a smoother response once I tune it right?

One thing left to do is take on my usual mountain routes and see how the controller does both charging at them and partial throttle. The controller hasn't come close in warmth to even to coolest controllers used on my other scooter hubbies, so I think I'll be able to go further than the 50% of the shunt length wrapped in copper and soldered that I did early. I'm somewhere in the 140-150A range now with the factory 70A 30fet controller, so I think I'll be able to get to 200A+ before I need to ventilate the controller.

Better brakes and then I need to work on some skills. Coming out of a power doughnut going directly into a wheelie is where I'd like to get to help forward the cause to add to surprising everyone with my takeoffs.

John

[spinningmagnets]

I really like your seat position solution. There must be a dozen ways to accomplish moving the seat a little down and a little back, but that looks easy and strong. It probably shouldn't matter, but I think if anybody tried riding a bike with the seat lower and back some, they would love it more than they thought they would. I really like having my feet flat on the ground at stops.

[John in CR]

I really like your seat position solution. There must be a dozen ways to accomplish moving the seat a little down and a little back, but that looks easy and strong. It probably shouldn't matter, but I think if anybody tried riding a bike with the seat lower and back some, they would love it more than they thought they would. I really like having my feet flat on the ground at stops.

Dogman talked me out of just hacking off the seat tube, and I needed it lower than a simple upside L seat post like I've done before. Once I minimize the metal, this triangular route can still be stronger than the L. I think it also reduces a bit of the stress on the seat tube by eliminating flex of the seat post and spreading the load more evenly, but I'm a bit foggy on that visualization, so maybe someone up on structural engineering could comment.

One thing that surprised me was the lack of flex in the swingarm. I was waiting to decide on how to cross brace the 2 triangles of the swingarm until after riding. It doesn't need any, and due to the composites I'll add to enclose it I can probably eliminate over 1/3 of the steel. This bike has taught me some really good build lessons.

[Doctorbass]

John, i'm impatient to see your 60ft numbers

Total weight including the trike, me and the helmet is 260 pounds ( to give you some references)

Btw... i'm using A123 pack of 28s 4p.. not the Konions

Good luck.

[John in CR]

John, i'm impatient to see your 60ft numbers
Total weight including the trike, me and the helmet is 260 pounds ( to give you some references)
Btw... i'm using A123 pack of 28s 4p.. not the Konions
Good luck.

Doc,
It may be a while, since we're getting into the brunt of rainy season, and I don't know when they open the drag strip at the race facility. The car and cart tracks are easy to get on...practice daily at sunrise, but I'm sure the drag strip is different. Plus I need to pick up a helmet, since mine isn't full face. I need a better helmet anyway. I hate the wind noise with the one I have.

[Andje]

john, is that the same motor that can be purchased through the kelly sight, ie the http://kellycontroller.com/hub-motor-60v-3kwdisc-brake-p-151.html ?
They just look identical, so i was wondering. If these are easy to put on a bike, it might be more interesting for some of the people looking at the 5404 buy right now; as you say the quality of the ebike motors is crap, although it's got to be a lot easier to put them in a rim...
Amazing bike, i will be honoured to follow in your wake like a Remora...

[MadRhino]

Nice John, the super V is taking shape and as far as we can guess by the looks, it must be a smooth ride. It is not very stealth, but I believe that it's not a concern where you live. I can't wait to see it ride, and to have some numbers, even if they are not accurate track chrono yet.

The air shock is definitely the way to go with a hub motor, the Fox Float is small but still better than any spring loaded shock to temper the bouncing of a heavy hub. When you try a bigger air can, you will feel like you're riding on a cloud. The reversed stem is weird, I guess that the extended swingarm does compensate for the lack of weight in the front. Nevertheless, the longitudinal CEG is likely to rob some adherence off the front wheel in slippery conditions or hard cornering. I think that you should consider using a softer gum and lower air pressure in the front, to make the front wheel sticky.

Fit some brakes on this monster and give it some aggressive ride, we all want to see a vid of you beating it.

[John in CR]

DoctorBass,
Good news for you. I have to concede the 60ft time with me on the bike, because I'm only getting to 33-35 mph at 2.5sec, and by my calcs you were 42-43mph at 60ft. Maybe I can tune the controller higher, but that remains to be seen. I'll own you by the 8th though.

Andje,
Identical covers definitely, but there are hundreds if not thousands of motor factories that purchase components from the far fewer manufacturers of the metal parts and wind the copper, which is the highly labor intensive part, and assemble motors. My motor requires dropouts at 190mm, and definitely not something you can just slap on a bike. The X540x is more comparable my other scooter hubbies, but mine have big drum brakes that put the dropouts at 210mm without significant mods. Those wide version X5's will also come with bike ready covers, which is a complication for scooter hubbies.

MadRhino,
I ride very much differently than you, so the weight distribution on the bars, pedals, and saddle will be way different. I'm still not happy with my hand position, and have to do something different at the stem, but weight distribution is right where I want. Keep in mind I want to retain a hand/arm position where I can push back to counter brake dive, which I really hate. I definitely need to experiment with one of the no-dive type of front suspensions. Due to my overall greater load I have plenty of weight on the front for cornering, but the fat Kenda has side walls that are way too soft for hard cornering. I don't ride that way anyway, and blast in pretty straight lines, so a muscle bike instead of a sports bike works for me.

I have no experience with decent bike shocks. Should I go ahead and order replacement rubber parts now...seals, rings, whatever? That Fox Float is like a cloud for me, and my greater mass must counter the effects of all that unsprung weight on the small bumps I've been hitting. The rear seems to take them better than the front, though I avoid big stuff.

[MadRhino]

I have no experience with decent bike shocks. Should I go ahead and order replacement rubber parts now...seals, rings, whatever? That Fox Float is like a cloud for me, and my greater mass must counter the effects of all that unsprung weight on the small bumps I've been hitting. The rear seems to take them better than the front, though I avoid big stuff.

The Float is more than decent. If it works for your riding style, don't search any further. It is easy to service and the rebuild kits are not expansive. Just make sure it is empty of air when you open it, and no need to open it until it start losing air.

[amberwolf]

D Keep in mind I want to retain a hand/arm position where I can push back to counter brake dive, which I really hate. I definitely need to experiment with one of the no-dive type of front suspensions.

I wonder...on a fork with a lockout, would it be possible to put a servo activated by the brake lever on there to engage the lockout, and disengage once the lever is released? (or by a separate button on the lever, in case there is a situation like braking during a driveway entrance or speed bump where you don't want the suspension locked out)

Or for pneumatic systems without a lockout, a tank/compresssor and valve system that is activated the same way, so it pressurizes the system to it's max, stiffening it greatly, during braking, and lowering it back to some preset value afterward? (the compressor would kick on every so often to keep the tank above the pressure needed).

[John in CR]

...no need to open it until it start losing air.

With my big load and the shock pumped to 250psi, would it gradually worsen or can something go all at once? ie Order a set now?

Also, can it run on little to no air on a smooth road or is that sure to cause damage? eg When I go to make a run at the strip, lower will obviously be better, so as long as it won't damage the shock I could bring my pump along to the track and let the air out to make some runs. Then just pump it back up afterward. I guess I could just drop the pressure way down and get the same lowering result without bottoming out the shock. Recommendation?

[John in CR]

D Keep in mind I want to retain a hand/arm position where I can push back to counter brake dive, which I really hate. I definitely need to experiment with one of the no-dive type of front suspensions.

I wonder...on a fork with a lockout, would it be possible to put a servo activated by the brake lever on there to engage the lockout, and disengage once the lever is released? (or by a separate button on the lever, in case there is a situation like braking during a driveway entrance or speed bump where you don't want the suspension locked out)

Or for pneumatic systems without a lockout, a tank/compresssor and valve system that is activated the same way, so it pressurizes the system to it's max, stiffening it greatly, during braking, and lowering it back to some preset value afterward? (the compressor would kick on every so often to keep the tank above the pressure needed).

I have mine dialed up to max firmness, and it's still too soft for big ole me. You should know me by now, and no way I'm springing for some expensive forks with a lockout mechanism. I should check into some stiffer springs (I think mind have springs damped with a hydraulic cylinder.)...maybe if I'm lucky some for a motorcycle fork could work.

[amberwolf]

Well, the ones I got with a lockout (I think) came on a junk bike, but they need to be serviced before I can use the damping. Holds air, but the oil damping must have bad seals. I cant' remember for sure, but I think I tested the lockout to work ok.

So, while they'd be rarer there, you could still run across a deal like that.

Even so, I don't know that the ones I have can be made stiff enough to stop dive--I havent' used them on a bike yet.

[MadRhino]

...no need to open it until it start losing air.

With my big load and the shock pumped to 250psi, would it gradually worsen or can something go all at once? ie Order a set now?

Also, can it run on little to no air on a smooth road or is that sure to cause damage? eg When I go to make a run at the strip, lower will obviously be better, so as long as it won't damage the shock I could bring my pump along to the track and let the air out to make some runs. Then just pump it back up afterward. I guess I could just drop the pressure way down and get the same lowering result without bottoming out the shock. Recommendation?

I tune 300psi and max damping wirh a bigger can shock, and that is with a lighter motor, and rider. Yourr Float at 250psi is still under-tuned, don't worry it can take more, and is very unlikely to fail suddenly. When you have to fill it every week, it's time to buy a rebuild kit, and it's worth the extra buck to chose the upgraded kit. It can take lower pressure of course if you like, but not too low cause bottoming is the best way to a sudden failure.

The first failure sign is leaking oil, then it stops leaking after a week or two because there is little oil in it. But then, it will still perform as usual for a few month and maybe a year, before beginning to leak some air, and make noise. Mounting leverage, angle and linkage, affects the tuneability range of a shock, it can add or cut on the progressiveness of the stroke. So you can tune a shock to last or to perform, by the way it is mounted on the bike, when the bike frame has mounting options.

[John in CR]

So have I been lead astray? It was my understanding that pressure was really to adjust the ride height when loaded, with the goal to put the shock at about half travel when you're on the bike, so the wheel can move up or down for holes or bumps.

My reason for not going to 300psi was different. I got this bike used and abused, so I have no idea of the shock condition other than it seems to work fine and it holds air. Going to max pressure seems like it would lead to problems sooner, and the bike just sitting there not in use 98% of the time anyway, so why have it potentially under stress.