Crystalyte hs-3540 motor destroyed

Well it looked really messy when we opened it up.

Was driving full speed for maybe 10 minutes and 30% to 60% before when I tried to find my way with my GPS. Only at the end of the trip when I almost were at my destination I was going full speed.
The motor smelled burned. Don't think there is much I can do to fix it?

Here are some pictures.











Cheers
Andla

Yup shes toasted, this is the 3rd one of these motors i have seen
on the forums in this condition in the last few months...

real "game changers" these motors aren't the Green Machine

KiM

Are the older version of crystalyte hub motor better? What hub motor would be the toughest for high voltage drive?

I'd like more data on what the ride was like, and the wattage you were theroetically using.

I suprised it's destroyed, just looks toasty to me. Hell, the string tieing up the windings hasn't even combusted.

Look and see if all three phase wires are really still soldered to the windings.

The new H series Clytes are overheating very fast. Mine (H 35:35) has upgraded phase wires and I can push it to the heat limit in less than 5 minutes, in the same conditions that my 5304 can run nearly half an hour. The H series are more like the 9C, with small phse wires, lightweight, noizy... But they are capable on alot of power for their size, mine is riding about equal with my 5304 in the mountain. It can't be fed big current for as long, so it is behind in long climbs, but handles better downhill because of the light weight, so it catches the 5304 before the end of the ride, and often finish first.

Those motors need upgrade before use, if you are expecting any performance. They will fry their phase wires instantly if you feed them alot of power, so bigger wires are a must. They can't dissipate alot of heat because of their light weight, so a thermometer has to be installed to monitor heat, and one that has an alarm because overheating can happen in no time. Drilling cooling holes will become a common upgrade with those, just like the 9C. Regen is to be disabled with this motor when you have alot of hills, it needs the rest periods of freewheel and braking to cool.

dogman said:

I'd like more data on what the ride was like, and the wattage you were theroetically using.

I suprised it's destroyed, just looks toasty to me. Hell, the string tieing up the windings hasn't even combusted.

Look and see if all three phase wires are really still soldered to the windings.

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Yep, lokks like it can be saved, to me too.

I feed mine 5000w everyday for short periods. The H 35:35 is a slower wind than the H 35:40, just between the HS and HT. I guess it doesn't pull as much current on acceleration but still, it does very good in the mountain, enough so that I bought another one exactly the same.

Now I have some controller problems for a few days, so it runs with a 12 fet and I find that this is the safe controller for this motor. I have a 5306 with which I compared the same 12 fet, the H 35:35 is faster but the 5306 runs so smooth and cool that it's not comparable. I'd say that the 18 fet is perfect for the 5306, but too much for the H 35:35 and you have to be very carefull about heat. The 12 fet with the H 35:35, reduce the risk of overheating, yet gives fair performance.

OMG.

They steal someone else's design, couldn't read the plans right, and did a piss poor job putting it together.... No, definitely not a game changer. On top of that, it's supposed to be an ebike motor, yet it has no business at all in a 24" or 26" wheel with more than about a 120lb rider.

These motors appear to be crap, at least at this point. I'm looking for a second motor for my wife and although the performance looks good the durability and quality is unacceptable. These motors are also about $100 more expensive than the 9 continents which are much higher quality. Looks like a step backward for Crystalyte.

electr0n said:

These motors are also about $100 more expensive than the 9 continents which are much higher quality.

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Nope, same low QC. I'm not one to defend Crystalyte, but the H35's are definitely a lot more motor than the 9C, and we understand they are working to rectify the issues. I think it's just a case of premature release without proper testing to identify some issue up front.

I don't know if the burned motors are the result of a build flaw or simply running them at current and voltage that are too high for the given wheel size. Any motor can suffer a meltdown if run at too high a load and too low an rpm. There's been 0 guidance in that respect for these motors, so the early adopters are just guinea pigs, and the blame doesn't lie with just Xlyte, but also with those hyping these motors as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

My impression from reading these forums is that 9 continents are pretty reliable compared to these new Crystalytes. I haven't seen any complaints of 9 continents getting their wires shredded and needing to be modified when new from the factory and long lists of people with burned out motors or motors defective straight out of the box etc. Hopefully Crystalyte will address the issues people have been having. I'd like to get one of these motors myself but after reading all the negative experiences of others I think I will just wait till the quality improves or settle for a 9 continent.

From what I've seen so far the 3540 has 12 x 5 windings (60 turns of wire) and the 3525 is a 9 x 7 wind (63 turns). I don't know what Clyte calls a 8 x 7 wind (56 turn) motor like yours.

How many watts were you pushing through it before it cooked?

What current and voltage were you pushing in? Low voltage with high current tend to melt wires. I am planning to run my setup at 74V

I recall... WHY DOES EVERYBODY DOT USE ANY CHEAP TEMP SENSOR DISPLAY ALARM with the sensor installed in the motor !!!

it cost liek 10 $m will require you 1 hour of labor and WILL make you save your motor many times!!!!

Some fact:

The temp you feel on the motor cover MEAN NOTHING compare to the actual temp of the winding!!!

my motor winding can go above 160 celsius and the cover is still confortable to the touch!!



Guys please Remember that : Motor overpower MUST include a temp soesor!!!


Doc

They are better and worse than a 9C. Better performance, and worse manufacturing quality. It's a new motor, Clyte will make it better and we are making it better ourselves in the meantime. The main problem with them, is that they are not capable to be fed as much current as the X5, yet we persist abusing this smaller motor like it was big. It is an active cooling system that is desperately needed here, and this will make it a winner cause it is already more torquey than the X5 for the same current, and much lighter.

MadRhino said:

They are better and worse than a 9C. Better performance, and worse manufacturing quality. It's a new motor, Clyte will make it better and we are making it better ourselves in the meantime. The main problem with them, is that they are not capable to be fed as much current as the X5, yet we persist abusing this smaller motor like it was big. It is an active cooling system that is desperately needed here, and this will make it a winner cause it is already more torquey than the X5 for the same current, and much lighter.

Click to expand...

Yeah..

-X5 air cooling ( no room for liquid cooling)
-HX liquid cooling

Doctorbass said:

...Guys please Remember that : Motor overpower MUST include a temp soesor!!!
Doc

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Really? I've never burned up a motor while riding, unlike most who chase higher power. I weigh more than most at 250lbs. I ride faster than all but a very select few. I regularly tackle steeper mountains than most. That means I'm running higher continuous power than all but a few. That's with a factory sealed hubmotor with no ventilation, and since it's never been washed I'm sure the layer of road grime gives it less cooling than new. I've never used a temperature sensor other than feeling my motor often in the early months, but now almost never. Before you go off about not using an ebike hub, take into consideration that without the built in drum brake my daily rider hubbie weighs less than an X5.

Far more important than a temperature gauge is gaining an understanding of the performance limits of your system. While a thermometer would be a aid in learning those limits, those going for performance need to be paying attention to their surroundings, not looking at some gauge. If you need a thermometer in your motor, then you also need one in your controller, and multiple temp sensors in your battery pack. Looking at all that stuff with the frequency required would drastically increase your chances of crashing, because the time it takes a motor or controller to fry under the wrong load conditions is measures in 10's of seconds not minutes. It's far better to know what is going to make your motor hot before it actually does, which requires knowing your system, not some gauge.

Just like with cars, a temperature gauge doesn't stop people from overheating their engines, but understanding a car's limits does.

John

MadRhino said:

...It is an active cooling system that is desperately needed here...

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I disagree. Proper motors, proper setup, and system understanding are what's needed. A high quality high power geared hub would be a far better solution for those worried about weight, but unfortunately they don't exist...yet.

Andla,
+1

What current and voltage were you pushing?

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John in CR said:

MadRhino said:

...It is an active cooling system that is desperately needed here...

Click to expand...

I disagree. Proper motors, proper setup, and system understanding are what's needed. A high quality high power geared hub would be a far better solution for those worried about weight, but unfortunately they don't exist...yet.

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I agree that a better geared hub is badly needed, but not sure that any could be satisfying in the mountain trails, where the ride beat the wheel hard with bumps and drops. I would like to see a larger diameter hub, one that could fit a 26 in rim straight on. Lightweight materials like Ti and composite could make it light enough, and variable resistance could make it optimisable for any conditions.

I'm working on a mid drive now, for it is definitely the way to go lightweight, but I hate the noize of all those gears and chain already. For me, a hub motor will always have a preffered simplicity and silence.

John ; what motor did clyte copy in making these?

MadRhino said:

For me, a hub motor will always have a preffered simplicity and silence.

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+1, but only for now. We need a 2 or 3 speed. You never hear the transmission in a car or motorcycle, so noise shouldn't be an issue. The non-hub guys have shown the potential of tiny motors. We just need an in between size, so it's not spinning so fast that it's noisy, but capable of 3-4 times greater power to weight and add back up to half for the tranny and drive component. I'm sure sub 100lb 10kw emotos with pedals are coming. I just hope limiting noise is high on their priorities, because there's something special about silent DD hubs.

In the meantime, I'll just accept the 20+lbs, since I won't pay for advanced materials that only save a few pounds. I can lose that much in a day.

I think people are mistakenly putting 5xxx series power into these, when in reality they can handle maybe 1000w more than a 9C and that's about it.

But i have seen a few die in a very short period of time on 9C levels of power, so that is simply not acceptable at all.
I thought about switching over from my geared motor to one of these. After seeing 2-3 die under normal use, i'm over these..

auraslip said:

John ; what motor did clyte copy in making these?

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Mine, which proudly puts the Chinese patent stuff right on the covers. The QC difference is these motors have been produced unchanged for years and used on 250-300lb emotos from a sizeable factory, not a hole in the wall, with each motor properly tested before going out the door. Unfortunately they're still not available retail, and the Chinese just can't comprehend that someone would want to put them on a bike, so I've been unsuccessful in pushing through mods. That means putting them on a bike requires bike and motor mods. I was lucky to obtain 5 set up for spoked wheels.

John in CR said:

I'm sure sub 100lb 10kw emotos with pedals are coming. I just hope limiting noise is high on their priorities, because there's something special about silent DD hubs.

In the meantime, I'll just accept the 20+lbs, since I won't pay for advanced materials that only save a few pounds. I can lose that much in a day.

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My Demo 8 rides at 68 pound now with the H 35:35 and I feed it bursts of 5Kw for a few minutes. For 10Kw I need to put one of the X5 cause the H wont take it more than a few seconds. I want 40HP under 80 pounds, then I'll be satisfied... Well, maybe, if it's silent. If it's noizy I don't see why accepting less than 80HP