Link's first ebike. (Now: The S-Go)

[Eric G]

I think something is up with those batteries...or charger...
When I charge my 12volt/7ah sla they charge up to 13.35 volts. An hour or so later they're 13.26volts and after sitting for 24 hours they'll drop to 13.22volts.When I hook up a 12volt RV light bulb to them they'll drop down to ~12.8 volts.(the current draw from the RV light bulb is 4.25 amps).
As far as I know sla batteries should be around 13 to 13.5 hot off the charger.

What kind of charger are you using?

Eric

[D-Man]

Battery discharge curves suppose to look like this if the batteries are new and charged. Are your batteries new or used?

[ngocthach1130]

...and how deep in the wallet.

How true. Last time i heard that pop, I dunno if i lost consciousness and moved by instinct or what. When i came to, another controller was bought, as well as a dozen IRFB4110 Mosfet, Schottky diode, Capacitor, resistors, was racked up on my credit card. It's terrible how tiny components can add up. These days, for minor replacement parts like blown gate resistor, i just stop by the stock room of the electronic lab at my school and social engineer some away from the attendant.

[Link]

Yeah, I did kind of find the voltage drop a little steep.

Two are pretty much brand new (bought them ~6 months ago and they've been sitting around fully charged) and one is new old stock (by like 6 years). The new ones have the sticker: QA/08. The new old stock one says: QA/02.

I'm using a Vector 2/4/6A charger to keep them in balance and a 36V charger made by YiYun, the same guys who made my controller. They seem to do a good job on what they make. The chargers are used on both packs, so it's not those.

Resting voltage hot off the Vector charger is just over 13V for the new ones. Something like 12.7V for the suspicious one.

This is a rite of passage that will establish how deep in the veins the obsession is embedded.

...and how deep in the wallet.

Tell me about it . I got paid today, so I'm gonna go look for a suitable BMX bike tomorrow. Then find some spokes. Then upgrade my controller. Then get another motor (dual wield BD36! ).

[kbarrett]

Tell me about it . I got paid today, so I'm gonna go look for a suitable BMX bike tomorrow. Then find some spokes. Then upgrade my controller. Then get another motor (dual wield BD36! ).

And then you go compare what you have spent to the cost of a used +500cc motorcycle on craigslist ... and seriously consider beating your own head against a post ...

[Link]

Tell me about it . I got paid today, so I'm gonna go look for a suitable BMX bike tomorrow. Then find some spokes. Then upgrade my controller. Then get another motor (dual wield BD36! ).

And then you go compare what you have spent to the cost of a used +500cc motorcycle on craigslist ... and seriously consider beating your own head against a post ...

...then you see that gas has gone up AGAIN and not feel TOO bad.

[ngocthach1130]

I don't really compare my ebikes to my car or other transportation since i think of it as a hobby rather than alternative transportation. It'd be hard to ride my bike in 20 degree F weather here in the northeast right now. Even if i were to compare i would have to factor in insurance, registration, license, gas, and maintenance. That would drive the cost of ownership of these gaser way up. I'm sure electric bike have maintenance too, but since i'm not very familiar with motorcycle or car repair. It's cheaper to do self repair on the bike.

[Drunkskunk]

Tell me about it . I got paid today, so I'm gonna go look for a suitable BMX bike tomorrow. Then find some spokes. Then upgrade my controller. Then get another motor (dual wield BD36! ).

And then you go compare what you have spent to the cost of a used +500cc motorcycle on craigslist ... and seriously consider beating your own head against a post ...

...then you see that gas has gone up AGAIN and not feel TOO bad.

I'm not doing this to save money. Its a hobby. and I'm not saving money, either.

My batteries cost me $850, I get an average of 25 miles out of them. They are good for 500 cycles. Thats 12,500 miles total range or 14.7 miles a dollar.
Thats roughly equil to 40mpg on a car, but a car can do that three times as fast in town, and have an AC, or a heater, and room for passangers and cargo.
Heck, my Durango with a 350 HP Hemi gets 20mpg, and can haul my bike, 7 other passangers, a weeks worth of camping supplies, and a boat.
Thats 350% more power for only twice the cost in fuel. I can carpool places, and by taking a pasanger, I'm dead even on the cost of the bike for transport. I can haul 6 months worth of food in the truck for one grocery trip, if I chose. On the bike, I'm lucky if I can haul everything I need for one meal.
And have you ever tried to pick up a Date on a bicycle? Or make out in the back seat of a Schwinn?

Its a hobby, not a solution.
But its a whole lot of fun!

[Link]

Uhh...

No comment.

[Jay64]

And have you ever tried to pick up a Date on a bicycle? Or make out in the back seat of a Schwinn?

*forty year old virgin*Do you have a big trunk, cuz I'm gonna put my bike in it. */forty year old virgin*

[albie]

hahahah sooo true...

yeah you can't pickup chicks on an ebike unless you hang out at high schools

(not recommended and condoned as this will possibly land you in jail!)

[Link]

So, anyway. Random update:

Got new spray paint. The regular kind in a 99 cent can. Still degrades the damn insulation. I think it might be just an unstable compound, because the paint doesn't have a problem with other wires or the connectors. I'm just gonna break down and cover it with a long piece of heatshrink, which kinda defeats the purpose of using speaker wire in the first place.

Oh well. At least I have plenty of extra wire when I need it.

The batteries still suck. They start to really die after I get to about 1.5Ah.

I FINALLY clocked the thing. I forgot the bike at the bowling alley (doh!) and had to get a ride there. I rode the bike back, and had the presence of mind to ask them to clock me. Fresh (though crappy) batts kept me at a solid 27mph, even though they sagged from 52V down to 37V according to the Doc Wattson. I was slowing down to only 21 top when I hit 1.3Ah. Man, I want some lithiums.

In the meantime, I'm working out a pack to put the big 18Ah batteries in. I can't carry 4 of them in a backpack. 3 is bad enough, and the 52lbs that 4 would make puts a backpack out of the question. Hopefully, I'll get that together next week.

I ordered another ebike kit from ebikes.ca on the 14th. Namely, a Golden Motor rear kit. It'll run stock on my 26" bike until I get some cash together to upgrade it, and I'll slap the BD36 into a 20".

Oh, yeah, I got a few 4110s to put into the brushed controller while I was at it. We'll see just how a BD36 fares at 60 and 72V.

Those giant 150V 240A Schottkeys will go in the controller, too. I have a buttload of resistors in like 25 different values already. I'll grab some caps at Orvac or something.

Speaking of BD36s, anyone know where to get brushes for it? I'd also like to get harder ones for it, if I can. The motor seems beefy enough, but the brushes will probably wear pretty fast at those voltages.

I gotta grab some steel from somewhere around to fashion some torque plates out of. The drops seem to be holding up pretty well to the 900W the motor peaks at, but still...

I have a really crappy camera in the form of an MP3 player, so if you guys want I could take some pics of the temporary setup later.

Oh yeah: The ride was like 2.5 miles long, and I used 50Whrs to do it. So 20Whr/mi at full throttle with a little stop-and-go. Not bad.

[D-Man]

I remember a guy who went to 60 or 72 volts on the BD model and the brush holders melted or something like that.

[Johnbear]

You can buy them here apparantly - http://www.werelectrified.com/index.php?cPath=6

Good luck!

[Link]

So, anyway, I've been trying to get some caps and heatshrink (mebbe a little black wire, too), but crap keeps coming up (namely work, bowling, and other work). But, tomorrow is Sunday and I should be able to pick up a few things then.

Golden motor kit and superFETs from ebikes.ca came in today.

Postal service did a hell of a number on it. The motor has a bunch of scratches on the edges (nothing a little high-gloss black spray paint won't fix ) and the controller has numerous small dents in it.

First thing I noticed was that the freewheel was LOUD. I guess that's kind of expected, since the motor cover acts something like a drumhead. Speaking of motor covers, this ones a little lopsided. Wobbles by maybe a little less than 1mm. Not too severe, but it irks me. Unfortunately, it also wobbles the freewheel cassette. What to do, what to do.

I've only used brushed motor controllers, so I've never seen a brushless controller before. They are BIG .

A MAJOR problem I can see immediately is the gauge of the phase wires. They're TINY. 16 gauge tops. Maybe even 18. WAYYYY to thin for any serious current. I'll have to take the motor apart and see how fat a wire I can fit in it. Looks like 14ga is the fattest I can fit into the axle along with the phase wires.

I never expected the 4110s to be so small. I thought they'd be more like the medium sized voltage regulators I pull out of old electronics and whatnot. Good though, as they'll fit into the controller without issue. The diodes on the other hand are way too big (as I already knew). I was gonna just put those, the FETs and the caps on a separate PCB, but there's no point if I can get everything to fit in the controller. I'll just find different diodes.

Less importantly, I got a pair of bladed fuse holders while I was at it. I've only been running a breaker, so this might just come in handy (hopefully not, though ).

[ngocthach1130]

those 4110 are standard TO-220AB package. so they all have set dimension. Either way, those fet have lower resistance so they won't be dissipating that much heat anyway so they don't need to be huge like those voltage regulator. If you buy 10 irfb4110 on digikey, they're only $4.28 for one instead of 4.80. Just a note for penny pincher out there ^__^.

[Dee Jay]

Speaking of motor covers, this ones a little lopsided. Wobbles by maybe a little less than 1mm. Not too severe, but it irks me. Unfortunately, it also wobbles the freewheel cassette. What to do, what to do.

I have the same problem with my 4011 freewheel cover. I noticed the freewheel wobble when I was turning the rear wheel with the crank. At first I thought the cassette was screwed in wrong so I bought a pulley puller to push out the wire side cover in order to gain access to the freewheel (freewheel sockets don't fit through C'lyte axles donchaknow) inspected both, but they seemed fine. Then I sussed the axle was bent so I pushed that out and rolled it on an even surface (coffee table) and it was straight. But who would've thunk that the motor cover being made wrong in the first place?? I think my 408 is off too. My rim have uneven brake wear. . .

I really expected more from Golden Motor. I thought they we're down with CAD machining and all that. I think these hub motor factories are located in barns with cows and chickens or something, he he...

[Link]

those 4110 are standard TO-220AB package. so they all have set dimension. Either way, those fet have lower resistance so they won't be dissipating that much heat anyway so they don't need to be huge like those voltage regulator. If you buy 10 irfb4110 on digikey, they're only $4.28 for one instead of 4.80. Just a note for penny pincher out there ^__^.

LULZ, I never pay attention to package size. I just look at how powerful it is. I figure if it's too big, I can put it somewhere else.

I knew about Digikey's prices (I downloaded the catalogue ), but I only needed three (two for brushed controller, one extra). Plus it was convenient.

I really expected more from Golden Motor. I thought they we're down with CAD machining and all that. I think these hub motor factories are located in barns with cows and chickens or something, he he...

Me too. You'd think that if they could make a cheap BD36 nicely they could certainly make a more expensive brushless model right. I'll admit, though, it looks good at least.

[Link]

'Nother update:

Spent a lot of time today on the bike.

First went to Fry's. Picked up a length of 1" and 1/2" heatshrink, 25ft of 10AWG wire, a strawberry Fanta, and a chocolate orange.

Went to Wal-Mart. I want to put pegs on my back wheel. I don't pedal a lot ( ) and for some reason resting with my legs on the pedals makes them stiff after a while. I can use the pegs as a footrest. Well, I could if they weren't designed for a 3/8" axle. I'll have to drill them out to 1/2" if I want to use them.

Spent loads of time working on the backpack-bike plug. It had to be both the power and throttle connections, so it took some work. My g-ma got a new phone (after 12 years of her old one ) and it has a decent camera on it. If I can get the thing to interface the computer, I'll get some pics. That's kind of a big "if" because it doesn't have an SD card slot and I don't know if it came with a data cable. The pics will describe how I worked out the plugs easier than I could. Suffice to say, hot glue rules.

I (mostly) ditched the speaker cable. It's only being used for the between-battery connections and inside the backpack-bike cord.

The keen-eyed will notice that I used 10ga wire with 30A PowerPoles. However, 30A PowerPoles only accept 12ga max. I had to leave a few strands out of the connections.

Now here's something interesting: I get everything all nice and running and test it. Works fine. I zip-tie the cords to the bike and saddle up with the backpack. I turn the throttle a little. A fraction of a second acceleration and then nothing. Needless to say, I was both pissed and confused. Everything had worked a few minutes earlier. It got even more confusing when I started testing things.

At first, I thought it was the throttle. I had similar problems with the first. The hall sensors signal and negative legs kept touching and stopping the motor. I opened it up and used a little (you guessed it) hot glue to hold them in place. Got me nada.

I knew it couldn't be the breaker or Doc Wattson, because the Doc Wattson was giving its readings normally, and it's behind the breaker.

Worried now, I figured it might be the controller, or worse, my very labor-intensive wiring job. Unplugged the motor and attached a voltmeter to it's leads. Turning the throttle varied the voltage just like it should.

Now I'm starting to thing I did something terrible to the motor, somehow. I hooked up the voltmeter to it and spun it a little. Luckily, I got voltage out of it, so that wasn't the problem.

By now I'm almost completely at a loss, but I decide to go back to checking the wiring. Throttle signal is getting through. Voltage is present, so the wires have connectivity. Motor works fine.

I go through about every test I can think of, and eventually I figure out the problem. Guess what it is. I'll make another thread for it, because I find it kind of interesting, even though I have no idea how it managed to do this.

EDIT: EMF got it. Freaky resistance thingy going on in the SAE connector that attaches to the motor.

[Link]

After sitting in the garage for practically two months, I'm finally working on the S-40 again. As of now, I'm calling this one the Schwinn S-Go, combining the naming scheme of the Schwinn S-series bikes with the kind of motor I'm using.

I didn't work on it all that much today, and I still need to put a brake cable on the front disc caliper and true the motor's wheel.

Not much else to say, so here's a couple pics:

[Link]

Bloody hell, there are no end of problems in this hobby.

First I have to go around finding the front disc brake caliper. There are oodles of boxes in the garage where it could be. I ask for help, but no one else in this house knows what a front disc brake caliper even LOOKS like.

I eventually find that, but there's no sign of the cable. No problem, there's some extra in one of the drawers. I get that out and it's far too long, but I already knew that. Had to cut off this ridiculous little bead thing on the end of the wire. I thought it was plastic, but it's made out of metal. Have to get the Dremel out to grind it off.

I try to get the caliper on the bike, but the screws were on so tight from the factory that I stripped the middles of them. Had to grind a flathead screwdriver slot in the head to get them in.

Then the brake itself was problematic to adjust right. The disc kept riding on the outer edge of the thing, and I can't adjust it out any farther. I find a washer to use as a spacer. Mess with the brake a little more and it pops into where it should have been in the first place. Take the spacer off and finish adjusting it, so I'm done with the front wheel.

I spin the rear wheel a little. There's this persistent rubbing sound coming from it, and there's considerable resistance to moving the wheel at a certain point in its rotation. I move the brakes out of the way and it's still there. No matter what I do I can't get it to go away. I had a bad feeling that it was the stator core rubbing on the rotor magnets. I take off the sideplate and have a look. The airgap is impressively small (<0.5mm looks like). Unfortunately, the motor cover wasn't machined very well at all, so putting the cover on wrong may cause it to rub. Hard to tell, though. Not sure if it could rub even in the worst possible position, but I match up the holes to their original corresponding ones on the motor anyway and screw them back in.

The friggin' rubbing is even WORSE!

The thing is, it only does this when it's mounted in the bike and tightened down. Any ideas at all as to what the problem is?


Did come up with one useful thing, however. You know those little aglets they put on the ends of the brake/derailleur cables to keep them from fraying that are useless and tend to fall off all the time? Solder works well. You don't even need an aglet with it, actually.

[TylerDurden]

The thing is, it only does this when it's mounted in the bike and tightened down. Any ideas at all as to what the problem is?

WAG: bent axle?

Take two pipes or angles or whatever and set the whole hub in-between, resting on the axle. Roll it like those old magnet toys. If it wobbles, U B bent.

[Lenk42602]

sounds like axle bearings to me. probably are not seated correctly from the factory...

[Link]

WAG: bent axle?

The axle is fine.

The sprocket cassette, however, is not. It wobbles just a bit, but it's effing the thing up.

Grah! I'm not equipped to take off a cassette. Go figure. How does one go about this, anyway?

[TylerDurden]

Grah! I'm not equipped to take off a cassette. Go figure. How does one go about this, anyway?

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html