Winter Tire - first ride - Schwalbe Marathon Winter

[qtipslea]

I would send those back, unacceptable.

you cannot ride studded bicycle tires in the conditions indicated by the OP with an electric powered bicycle at sustained speeds and expect the studs to stay in the tire casing.

Higher sustained speeds than a normal pedal- bike on paved terrain, then followed by "nasty, rocky singletrack,with just one icy patch + unsprung wheel weight,all lend to what has occurred. Studs are nut seated in bicycle tire casings sufficiently to handle ebike motors without losing a good many.

good luck getting a refund. especially after explaining how they failed given the application and terrain.

Len

What brand of studded tires can handle a e-bike then?

Thinking about getting one myself for the front wheel. I ride mainly on the sidewalks with occasional paved road.

Toronto-weather!

[MadRhino]

What brand of studded tires can handle a e-bike then?

None, if you ride high power, or faster than bicycle speed.

Even pre-studded motorcycle tires are a specialty, and are not riding good or lasting long. Even worse, most are made specifically for right OR left turn, for they are made for ice racing on oval track.

If you like riding studded tires on mixed surface at high speed or with hard acceleration, you have to make them yourself and be prepared to do them often. The fast way to do yourself is with Kold Cutters screw studs. The performance way is with spikes, and takes at least twice the time to stud your tires, as the time they can last racing.

Anyway, for any serious rider, they are only good for ice or hard transformed snow. On the street, you have better control without. A mud tire with aggressive thread is pefectly suitable for riding the city in the winter. Install the front one in reverse rotating direction, keep your weight forward, and learn counter steering.

[qtipslea]

What brand of studded tires can handle a e-bike then?

None, if you ride high power, or faster than bicycle speed.

Even pre-studded motorcycle tires are a specialty, and are not riding good or lasting long. Even worse, most are made specifically for right OR left turn, for they are made for ice racing on oval track.

If you like riding studded tires on mixed surface at high speed or with hard acceleration, you have to make them yourself and be prepared to do them often. The fast way to do yourself is with Kold Cutters screw studs. The performance way is with spikes, and takes at least twice the time to stud your tires, as the time they can last racing.

Anyway, for any serious rider, they are only good for ice or hard transformed snow. On the street, you have better control without. A mud tire with aggressive thread is pefectly suitable for riding the city in the winter. Install the front one in reverse rotating direction, keep your weight forward, and learn counter steering.

I ride a 350W geared motor. Max speed is like 25 kph. Should be ok then right?

[briogio]

What brand of studded tires can handle a e-bike then?

None, if you ride high power, or faster than bicycle speed.

Even pre-studded motorcycle tires are a specialty, and are not riding good or lasting long. Even worse, most are made specifically for right OR left turn, for they are made for ice racing on oval track.

If you like riding studded tires on mixed surface at high speed or with hard acceleration, you have to make them yourself and be prepared to do them often. The fast way to do yourself is with Kold Cutters screw studs. The performance way is with spikes, and takes at least twice the time to stud your tires, as the time they can last racing.

Anyway, for any serious rider, they are only good for ice or hard transformed snow. On the street, you have better control without. A mud tire with aggressive thread is pefectly suitable for riding the city in the winter. Install the front one in reverse rotating direction, keep your weight forward, and learn counter steering.

I agree 100%, studs are really only beneficial on pure ice. I commuted for 3 entire winters on the South shore of Montreal with Panaracer "Smoke's", they worked really well.
When you hit ice you have to enter a Zen zone of NO movement, brakes, breathing until you're out of it again. Luckily it doesn't happen very often and certainly not often enough to run studs for the other 98% of your ride.
It's a great riding skills education to ride in the winter, lower your seat and learn body English, maybe try some Schwalbe "Muddy Mary's", they've got paddles which are great for snow.

[el_walto]

My Schwalbe ice spikers said right on the label that you should not user heavy acceleration or heavy breaking for the first 40km, so that the studs have time to set.

"it is recommended that one rides not too aggressively (no fast acceleration or slamming on brakes) on pavement for about 40km before using the tires on snow and ice.
The reason for this is that if the tires are used right away, the studs not properly seated in place may come loose and fall out."

[joe tomten]

I followed the above instructions with my schwalbe marathon winter studded tires. Didn't loose a single stud last year.

[MadRhino]

I ride a 350W geared motor. Max speed is like 25 kph. Should be ok then right?

Only with soft start, even a 350w geared hub is capable of acceleration power much higher than anyone pedaling. Depending gear ratio, it can compare with over 1000w fed to a DD hub.

[qtipslea]

I ride a 350W geared motor. Max speed is like 25 kph. Should be ok then right?

Only with soft start, even a 350w geared hub is capable of acceleration power much higher than anyone pedaling. Depending gear ratio, it can compare with over 1000w fed to a DD hub.

Ah. I don't think my 350W geared motor is that powerful. Its a MXUS from Cell_man after all.

I will keep this in mind when I grab a studded tire for the front.

[BikeFanatic]

Maybe the best bet is rear wheel drive Ebike with regular mountain bike knobby on the rear, then the front, you can get a second wheel, one with knobby and one with studs so you can switch them based on the weather quickly in the morning.

I did find that with the ebike just the mountain bike tires were good enough most of the time.

[Hugues]

I followed the above instructions with my schwalbe marathon winter studded tires. Didn't loose a single stud last year.

Interesting.

Could you give some more details :
- type of motor , power
- weight
- tire pressure
- average speed, more or less
- and most importantly, type of winter roads, snow, ice, often on paved roads

Thanks a lot

[joe tomten]

20" bmx, schwalbe marathon winter studded tires : front and rear

48v10hr lifepo4, 20 amp controller : bike and rider < 200lbs

9-C rear hub {2805}, 52t front chainring, 16t rear singlespeed. Probably 20mph cruising and pedaling. Sometimes in dark cold windy weather I'd tuck and full throttle w/o pedaling. maybe 28mph.

Riding ~8 miles to and from work on clear (asphalt) and icy roads, some limited riding in the snow. No hard braking or cornering.

tires prob. 35-40psi.

This was my "icy roads" bike: probably used it 1/4 of the days last winter from Nov.- - March. Roads were mostly clear, but with occasional ice patches where the daytime melt would then freeze solid.

[Hugues]

thanks for the data,
so the comparison between my setup and yours goes like this:

- same studded tires, although yours is 20", mine is 26" -> i guess the studs on yours suffer more than mine as the wheel spins faster for the same bike speed

- 48V , 20 amp controller: i've got 72 V / 40 amps but also depends how we ride. On that day i did not accelrate or brake like crazy anyway.

- my bike + driver is a little heavier, but certainly not out of norm

- you rode on clear asphalt like me

- i had inflated them to 60-70 psi, your at 35-40, this is an important difference i guess. But could it explain 30% losses on mine on one ride and none on yours for the whole winter ?!?

I decreased the pressure a bit now, let's see if i will loose some more.

I'm going to show it to the vendor tonight.

will keep you posted.

[MadRhino]

- i had inflated them to 60-70 psi, your at 35-40, this is an important difference i guess. But could it explain 30% losses on mine on one ride and none on yours for the whole winter ?!?
.

Yep, it makes a big difference. Just magine increasing pressure, untill the studs pop out.

[Hugues]

Update on my stud story:

Got 2 brand new Schwalbe Marathon Winter tires from the reseller today, i did not have to pay anything

so i will mount them tonight and inflate them at 30 psi max, that should be better , and report here later.

Stay tuned !

[ohzee]

Glad to hear that yea please keep us updated.

[dogman]

Maybe break em in a bit slower too? Go for a 40 k ride at low speed? Soft for the winter makes sense even without studs too.

[GCinDC]

used that tire all winter last year, maybe lost 2 studs. i'm shocked. glad to hear you got replacements..

i'm looking for some fresh ones, but they seem harder to find this year (in 26")

[Hugues]

Great !

Went for a ride today with the new Schwalbe Marathon Winter the vendor sent me back.

Inflated them at 2 bars or about 30 psi, drove uphill on paved roads mostly for about 40 km, and not lost a single stud !

So I guess i inflated the first pair too much (60 psi), although recommended max is 70. (and lost 30% of studs on first ride !)
Actually i inflated them that hard so they are less noisy, but at 30 psi i cannot see the difference in noise anyway. So will keep them there.

And the grip is pretty good, wet leaves, snow, ice, they give a secure feeling.

Must admit on the first ride i went to a nasty trail with gravel and rocks, that surely did not help, we'll try that again next spring

[hjns]

Inflated them at 2 bars or about 30 psi, drove uphill on paved roads mostly for about 40 km, and not lost a single stud !

So I guess i inflated the first pair too much (60 psi), although recommended max is 70. (and lost 30% of studs on first ride !)
Actually i inflated them that hard so they are less noisy, but at 30 psi i cannot see the difference in noise anyway. So will keep them there.

And the grip is pretty good, wet leaves, snow, ice, they give a secure feeling.

Must admit on the first ride i went to a nasty trail with gravel and rocks, that surely did not help, we'll try that again next spring

Hi Hugues,

How much snow do you currently have at Montreux? In Basel we have nothing yet.

Happy to read that lowering pressure helps a lot. I am thinking of getting the Conti Winter II. I ride mostly in town anyway.

[Hugues]

...
Hi Hugues,

How much snow do you currently have at Montreux? In Basel we have nothing yet.

Happy to read that lowering pressure helps a lot. I am thinking of getting the Conti Winter II. I ride mostly in town anyway.

Hi Henk,

Until yesterday no snow even at higher altitudes, but last night it snowed to about 1'800m. The roads were a bit icy today during my ride around 1'600m but nothing serious.
What an abrupt change of weather. Until last weekend i was going up there and having a nice mid-day nap under the sun then coming back down...

[Kingfish]

Chipping in a wee bit late to the party, I ran these tires F&R last year and they worked out quite well. I haven’t noticed any lost studs. Grippy in all conditions, and they had tremendous stopping power – like steel talons grabbing asphalt and hanging on; saved my life when an imbecile on his cellphone made an abrupt right-turn directly in front of me… the bike stopped on the dime. High marks and my review here.

Cheers, KF

[Hugues]

Thanks KF for the link, what's REI !

Just put another 40 km on mine today, studs are still there. I'm starting to believe the vendor when he said Schwalbe had some batches with the problem

[Kingfish]

Thanks KF for the link, what's REI !

Just put another 40 km on mine today, studs are still there. I'm starting to believe the vendor when he said Schwalbe had some batches with the problem

REI: Recreational Equipment, Inc. They are the local outdoor clothing & supply for Seattle and greater Pacific Northwest, although I think they are larger than that. Their competitors will be Northface, Patagonia, Outdoor Research (OR), and a host of others. My wheelbuilder is a retired Boeing Engineer working part-time at REI; most of the time it’s a great neighborly experience. The one in Redmond knows me by name as “that eBike guy”.

Cheers, KF

[DAND214]

Do it youself, DIY studded tires?
Don't know how, but why not/
I know I read something on this before, maybe not here.

Dan

[LI-ghtcycle]

Do it youself, DIY studded tires?
Don't know how, but why not/
I know I read something on this before, maybe not here.

Dan

It certainly can be done, however, in my opinion, it's only worth it if you have tons of time to burn on your hands, because a studded snow tire is more than just a tire with some studs in it.

It's a whole package, special softer compound, special tread patterns that will perform at cold temps where the average tire is harder and less able to grip.

If you can't afford good studded tires, you can use the zip-tie method, or get a softer cheaper tire and drill a ton of tiny holes and install brads like I have (they are only really good for one season however) or spend as much or more as the tires would cost in the special studs they come with, and then you still don't have a good tire really by comparison) with this method:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34434

So far it has put some interesting scratches on the concrete of the driveway, but I haven't had a chance to do a proper test on the road with my shoes. I'm going to have to keep an eye out at Goodwill for another pair of shoes as these are just too soft, about 1/4 of the brads just sink back into the sole of the shoe, but the rest bite really nice.