"Mac 500W Rear Kit (speed)" - 8t vs 10t?

I plan to buy the "Mac 500W Rear Kit (speed)" from emissions-free.com and I was wondering which type I'd like/get more use out of: the 8t or 10.

First, I'd like to say I like the idea of a 10t being a sturdy mover(being able to move along reliably in most conditions as if on tracks like a train), a strong, sturdy climber (I hope that makes sense), but don't want it to be too slow on flat.

So I have a few questions:

1. How fast is the 10t on flat? (I have a 700c bicycle and a 36volt 15ah pingbattery.)

2. Does the 10t take more voltage than 8t? (If it takes lower amount that would be a plus for me in regards to efficiency.)

3. How fast does the 10t go uphill?

4. Is the 10t really a sturdy all-arounder ride? What I mean by that is: does it keep a steady, strong pace in all circumstances?

5. How fast does the 8t go on flat ground? And how fast uphill?

6. Is 8t a decent hill climber? (I hear it's a good balanced ride for speed and hill-climbing.)

7. And which would be better suited to my 36volt 15ah pingbattery and 700c bicycle?

Basically, If I can safely and reliably power up hills with ease with the MAC 10t I may want it instead, especially if it can maintain speeds of 25mph on flat with my set-up.
However, if it can only go 15mph on flat, the 8t would be a better balanced ride for me after all.





ps. Do the mac geared motors free-wheel?

MAC tech support, how may i help you?

Want to know what your speed will be? here are the numbers:

http://emissions-free.com/catalog/i1.html

Add about.. 5% more speed for a 7C wheel, about 1-2mph extra.

As for your hill question, it depends on the degree, and the weight of the rider of course. But i'll tell you this - a MAC/BMC style motor has the steadiest torque band of all motors, and it will be the best climber, watt per watt, compared to any DD.

These motors can safely take 2000 watts constant for 30+ minutes. How you work the difference between volts and amps is up to you... think about the watts tho.

Of course it freewheels, it's a geared hub motor.

8T is a great hill climber. You will need to feed it some amps though, 30 or above, for it to do it's magic.
10T is a better climber, but you need to feed it more volts to get the equivalent speed of the 10T.

Only the 12T would go about 15mph on the flats. If you want to go that slow, forget the 500w MAC motor, get the 350w unit, or something lighter and smaller like a bafang.

ebikec2rev said:

I plan to buy the "Mac 500W Rear Kit (speed)" from emissions-free.com and I was wondering which type I'd like/get more use out of: the 8t or 10.

First, I'd like to say I like the idea of a 10t being a sturdy mover(being able to move along reliably in most conditions as if on tracks like a train), a strong, sturdy climber (I hope that makes sense), but don't want it to be too slow on flat.

So I have a few questions:

1. How fast is the 10t on flat? (I have a 700c bicycle and a 36volt 15ah pingbattery.) 40 kph at 48 volts.

2. Does the 10t take more voltage than 8t? (If it takes lower amount that would be a plus for me in regards to efficiency.) As far as I know, the differences in the winds only affect where the efficiencies of the motor reside. The eight turn is more efficient at a higher speed than the ten turn. This allows the ten turn to cope better with steep hills as less wattage is converted to heat.

3. How fast does the 10t go uphill? No idea and it depends on the hill.

4. Is the 10t really a sturdy all-arounder ride? What I mean by that is: does it keep a steady, strong pace in all circumstances? Don't know - you're question is too broad.

5. How fast does the 8t go on flat ground? And how fast uphill? 50 kph on 48 volts on the flat. Depends on the hill.

6. Is 8t a decent hill climber? (I hear it's a good balanced ride for speed and hill-climbing.) Depends on the steepness and length of the hill. I would say yes to moderate hills. Probably no if you live in a mountainous area.

7. And which would be better suited to my 36volt 15ah pingbattery and 700c bicycle? It depends on how many amps you will be drawing and what controller you pick. A 30 amp controller is the most that battery can handle and that is pushing it.

At 36 volts you are will be going slower than the speeds mentioned above. Probably 40 kph on the flat for the eight turn and 32 kph for the ten turn.

Basically, If I can safely and reliably power up hills with ease with the MAC 10t I may want it instead, especially if it can maintain speeds of 25mph on flat with my set-up.
However, if it can only go 15mph on flat, the 8t would be a better balanced ride for me after all.

ps. Do the mac geared motors free-wheel?

Click to expand...

Yes.

i may have the 10t installed - but i'm not sure. i did order the 8t but am now happy that i didn't. (i ordered a 200rpm version, but my dealer seems to ship whatever he has at hands - i did order here in austria).
my bike goes about 42-44km/h on a fully charged 12s w/o pedalling. and i'm quite happy with that. i goes uphills quite easily and i can go 30km/h+ where i used the go only 7 so what could i ask more for? i feed it 25a max which is about 1.200w and my 10ah battery lasts for about 15-25km depending on how much you choose to pedal.

i would go for the 10t (if that's the version i really have) again. for me it's a nice mix between speed and climb ability.

How fast does the 10t go uphill? That's a bit like asking how fast do I spend my money in a bar? Depends on lots of stuff.

So lets assume a few things, and get rid of some variables. Assume the 36v 15 ah ping is used, and a 20-25 amp controller. That's only enough wattage to go up a 5% grade at 13-15 mph. Your speed up that same hill with an 8 t motor won't be very much different. Not because of winding, because you only have x watts.

To go fast up a moderately steep hill is simply going to take a lot more watts than you should ask that ping to provide.

So what's the diff? The difference is, if you have steeper than 5% hills to climb, and they are long hills, you need the slower winding to get up the steepest hills without adding more watts. So if you have really steep and long hills, you will tend to overheat a faster motor. A 6 t shouldn't climb a hill slower than 15 mph, but it would bog down to 10 mph on a really steep hill. So knowing that 800w or so is only going to get you to 10 mph on that hill, you need a motor that makes less heat at 10 mph. So the slower winding does that.

So a lot just depends on what you intend to be doing. If you have miles long 10% grades to get up, get the slower motor. But actually you would be even better off to just get the 8t and a new, higher voltage battery.

The 8 t motor is going to climb fine at 36v 25 amps, on hills less than 8%. Even the 6t motor is going to climb ok up to 5%.

Hi,
I have been running a 500 watt mac speed kit with a 36volt 15amp ping battery for about six months now. Its quite hilly where I live and I have no problems getting up the hills and to be honest I had considered the higher torque motor, but I'm glad I opted for the speed kit. The speed and acceleration are brilliant when in tricky situations and I've passed quite a few younger riders and usually beat them up hills including the lycra guys. The bike will do about 25ph on the flat and a bit more if I peddle. I have rode it an all weathers with no problems at all. The infenon controller is very well matched to the mac motor and the controller has a plug for a cycle analyst which is quite handy as you can get the cheaper version without the additional shunt. I also have a bafang which is good but not as good as the mac in my opinion. Although the mac is more expensive its worth the extra and in this case you definitely get what you pay for.
Whichever kit you get the mac is a very good choice.

Steady said:

Hi,
I have been running a 500 watt mac speed kit with a 36volt 15amp ping battery for about six months now. Its quite hilly where I live and I have no problems getting up the hills and to be honest I had considered the higher torque motor, but I'm glad I opted for the speed kit. The speed and acceleration are brilliant when in tricky situations and I've passed quite a few younger riders and usually beat them up hills including the lycra guys. The bike will do about 25ph on the flat and a bit more if I peddle. I have rode it an all weathers with no problems at all. The infenon controller is very well matched to the mac motor and the controller has a plug for a cycle analyst which is quite handy as you can get the cheaper version without the additional shunt. I also have a bafang which is good but not as good as the mac in my opinion. Although the mac is more expensive its worth the extra and in this case you definitely get what you pay for.
Whichever kit you get the mac is a very good choice.

Click to expand...

I believe speed and acceleration are different things. The 500W "speed" kit is 8T, 320 RPM, making it right in between the 3 choices - the torquey 10T (255 RPM), 8T (320 RPM) and the "high-power" 6T (400 RPM). What does "T" stand for, again?

T stands for turns, IE how many turns of wire are wrapped around the stator.
The higher the turn count, the slower it is per volt. This will make for a motor that requires higher volts than amps to run for the same equivalent speed.

Pick your turn count and voltage for your ideal speed accordingly.

8 t should climb pretty ok. It's when you want to climb very long, very steep hills that you need either a lot more watts, or a slower motor, or both. 8% is pretty steep, but a motor that goes 20-25 mph on 36v should be able to climb 8%. If you are going to climb say, 3 or more miles of 8% nonstop, then a lower speed motor might be a good choice.

So the 8t motor is a pretty solid compromise, right in the middle where it climbs fine, yet has some decent speed.

Steady said:

Hi,
I have been running a 500 watt mac speed kit with a 36volt 15amp ping battery for about six months now. Its quite hilly where I live and I have no problems getting up the hills and to be honest I had considered the higher torque motor, but I'm glad I opted for the speed kit. The speed and acceleration are brilliant when in tricky situations and I've passed quite a few younger riders and usually beat them up hills including the lycra guys. The bike will do about 25ph on the flat and a bit more if I peddle. I have rode it an all weathers with no problems at all. The infenon controller is very well matched to the mac motor and the controller has a plug for a cycle analyst which is quite handy as you can get the cheaper version without the additional shunt. I also have a bafang which is good but not as good as the mac in my opinion. Although the mac is more expensive its worth the extra and in this case you definitely get what you pay for.
Whichever kit you get the mac is a very good choice.

Click to expand...

hello steady,

It's great to hear from someone who has the same battery as me that the mac speed kit works that well with it ( 25+mph sounds great, and the good acceleration.. just awesome). Thanks for coming along and sharing your experience, it makes me feel a lot better about this purchase. Did you say you had the 8t?

Hi,

Yes my mac motor is the 8 turn, 36volt, 500 watt, 320rpm, rear speed kit from cellman fitted to a 26inch wheel.The throttle controller has a 3 speed switch and cruise control. I would agree with dogman that the kit sits in the middle of this range, but ultimately it does depend on your personal choice. Dont worry too much though the kits from cellman are really good. I was really pleasantly surprised at the performance of the kit. I am pedalling more now than when I first got the kit and my range is increasing all the time, as well as my fitness. So for me its been a win win situation.

Bear in mind also, that for a first bike picking a middle choice is pretty smart. If you should find you need a different winding, buying just the motor is not so expensive as a whole kit. So where's the bad in having a spare motor laying around if you decide to try a different winding?

The 8 t should be perfect, if you don't have crazy steep hills, or really fast speeds in mind.

Hi
I too am thinking of buying the 500w rear kit from Cellman. Sounds like the 8t is faster with less torque and the 10t is slower with more torque.
How easy is it to pedal without throttle or if the battery runs flat? I hope to be able to pedal most of the time and use the motor to suit flats, inclines and some steep hills and just free roll down hills.
What battery and controller from Cellman goes well with this? Do you know the dimensions of his batteries - if they will fit in a Topeak rear rack bag?

I have the 8t and using Ping battery 48 volt and 20 amp. I've never been defeated by any hill yet so if the 10t has more torque then that should be even better at hills. It's relatively easy to pedal but nowhere as good as no motor at all of course. I wouldn't want to cycle more than 5 miles without any power. cell_man can make you any battery you want. Send him your bag and get him to fill it up with your battery.

Sent using Endless-Sphere Mobile app

i still don't know if it is harder to pedal without motor, or if just feels like that. you get used to the power of the motor so fast, that you think that there must be something broken as soon as you disengage the motor.

but all in all i think that it's not that bad. the wheel spins quite long when pushed and the freewheel is great.

For sure, it's harder to pedal a bike that has the motor and battery weight added to it. A mac won't have a lot of resistance when pedaling with the motor off, but 20-30 pounds of motor and battery will make you pedal harder for sure.

neptronix said:

T stands for turns, IE how many turns of wire are wrapped around the stator.
The higher the turn count, the slower it is per volt. This will make for a motor that requires higher volts than amps to run for the same equivalent speed.

Pick your turn count and voltage for your ideal speed accordingly.

Click to expand...

Wow, this is what I have been searching for. "T" is not in the glossary on this forum!

Should be working said:

neptronix said:

T stands for turns, IE how many turns of wire are wrapped around the stator.
The higher the turn count, the slower it is per volt. This will make for a motor that requires higher volts than amps to run for the same equivalent speed.

Pick your turn count and voltage for your ideal speed accordingly.

Click to expand...

Wow, this is what I have been searching for. "T" is not in the glossary on this forum!

Click to expand...

Neither is controller FRETs I think.

Btw, glossary -> http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=11162

And I will admit to searching fruitlessly for what RC means. Remote control? Aren't these all remote control, if they have a controller??

RC refers to Radio Control hobby industry of scale model airplanes, helicopters, boats, cars, etc. Motors, batteries and test equipment seem to prove useful to us with ebikes.

RC Motor is a motor normally used for RC aircraft but being installed into a bicycle. Google Hobby King and take a look around...

Should be working said:

And I will admit to searching fruitlessly for what RC means. Remote control? Aren't these all remote control, if they have a controller??

Click to expand...

I believe RC is Radio-Controlled.
EDIT: crap, Ykick's got this one, I'm always late.