Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby Scottyf » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:30 pm

If you contact bafang directly you can get what ever you like. But it will cost a little more than bmsbattery.
It's worth noting. They do single orders but it's obviously expensive and they will only supply the motor. Not laced etc.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby miuan » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:46 pm

d8veh wrote:The most important thing is to match the motor to your normal speed that you expect to be going. It can make a significant difference to your range if you have a mismatch. When a 393rpm motor is laboring up a steep hill at 200 rpm, efficiency could be as low as 60% compared with the maximum of 78%, while as a 201rpm motor would be achieving the 78%, but you only get half the top speed.


You do get half speed with slow wind, but DO NOT get 60% efficiency with fast one while the slow is doing 78. The difference can be couple per cent, not more. I go as far as assuming you get even more losses in the controller/wiring than the difference in motor efficiency, if you decide to use same voltages on both systems. Simply because you need to half the voltage and double the current with the fast motor, while just passing all the voltage to the motor with the slow one.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby motomech » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:48 pm

Yes, but at that point, it would seem to make more sense to buy a Mac from Cell_man.
The reason to buy from BMS Batt., at least for me, is get some other stuff[like a bulk charger, or two kits]and consolidate on the shipping.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby motomech » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:01 pm

miuan wrote:
d8veh wrote:The most important thing is to match the motor to your normal speed that you expect to be going. It can make a significant difference to your range if you have a mismatch. When a 393rpm motor is laboring up a steep hill at 200 rpm, efficiency could be as low as 60% compared with the maximum of 78%, while as a 201rpm motor would be achieving the 78%, but you only get half the top speed.


You do get half speed with slow wind, but DO NOT get 60% efficiency with fast one while the slow is doing 78. The difference can be couple per cent, not more. I go as far as assuming you get even more losses in the controller/wiring than the difference in motor efficiency, if you decide to use same voltages on both systems. Simply because you need to half the voltage and double the current with the fast motor, while just passing all the voltage to the motor with the slow one.


Yes, the Sim. at Ebike CA would seem to bear that out. I see losses in the low single digit range[comparing, for example, the BMC fast and slow winds].
There has been a solid argument here that the highest system efficiency is attained by over-volting a slow wind motor.
By as Dogman[and others]have pointed out, the differences are over-shadowed by things like, what jacket are you wearing or what tires[and pressure]are you running.
I'm thinking that, except for a hyper-miler, system efficiency should be way down on the list of factors to consider.
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2003 Rocky Mountain Edge w/2WD. , Q100 "fast wind" W\ Infineon w\ CA-DP frt. and Q100C, "fast wind " w\ an Elifebike QQ-350-9M 17A rear, Cycle Lumenator, 28 mph on 12S
2007 GT Idrive 5 3.0, MXUS geared mini w\ Grin\Infineon 20A on the frt.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby d8veh » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:08 pm

motomech wrote:I'm glad you dropped in, as I've read all your posts at PedElecs.
In your review of BPM/Giant[rear wheel mount], you said,

QUOTE "...from BMSbattery in China. The kit comprises 350w motor (code 12) in wheel, 350w 9 FET controller, throttle, pedal sensor and brakes with switches."

But above you seem to indicate that this wind is not available from BMS Battery. Also[above, in different post], Miuan states,

QUOTE "When purchasing from BMSBattery:
393 @ 36V = code 8
393 @ 48V = code 10"

While Gartmu said

Quote "msbattery answer me this:
48V 500w rpm393, Front. code 11.
48V 500w rpm393, rear, code 10 ."

I really hate to belabor this, but I'm still unclear as to what winds are available from BMS Battery.
Can you shed any more light on this?

P.S. Also, during your review of the BPM 12 you stated that you were unable to make a top speed run[speed limited]. Have you since been able to make one?

Scotty's explained it pretty well. I wouldn't take too much notice of the rpm stated by BMSBattery: Go by the code number and the RPMs stated in Wurly's post at the beginning of this thread. When you run a code 11 at 48v, you get 33% more RPM than the same motor at 36v. I'm not sure whether there is any difference internally between a 48v and 36v motor. Perhaps somebody here knows. We believe that the code number corresponds with the number of turns of wire round the poles, which has a direct bearing on speed and so does the voltage.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby d8veh » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:28 pm

miuan wrote:
d8veh wrote:The most important thing is to match the motor to your normal speed that you expect to be going. It can make a significant difference to your range if you have a mismatch. When a 393rpm motor is laboring up a steep hill at 200 rpm, efficiency could be as low as 60% compared with the maximum of 78%, while as a 201rpm motor would be achieving the 78%, but you only get half the top speed.


You do get half speed with slow wind, but DO NOT get 60% efficiency with fast one while the slow is doing 78. The difference can be couple per cent, not more. I go as far as assuming you get even more losses in the controller/wiring than the difference in motor efficiency, if you decide to use same voltages on both systems. Simply because you need to half the voltage and double the current with the fast motor, while just passing all the voltage to the motor with the slow one.

Have a look at the Ebikes.ca simulator. Choose the Ezee motor as the nearest equivalent. Top speed at 36v is 30kph with efficiency of 78%. On a 10% incline, it slows to 15kph with an efficiency of 64%. That means that your wasting 18% more.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby miuan » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:29 am

d8veh wrote:Have a look at the Ebikes.ca simulator. Choose the Ezee motor as the nearest equivalent. Top speed at 36v is 30kph with efficiency of 78%. On a 10% incline, it slows to 15kph with an efficiency of 64%. That means that your wasting 18% more.


You are wasting 18% more efficiency on the uphills because you require MORE power at LOWER rpm!
If you ask the same power of a slower motor at the SAME speed up the same hill, you will still bog it down in a similar way.
If you are more interested in this topic, check out my recent thread, especially what Alan B posted.
When using the simulator, choose BPM500W, it's a 10 turn wind afaik.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby casainho » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:24 am

I just bought from BMSBattery the Bafang 48V500W BPM Front Driving Hub Motor 393 RPM. While I live on a relative flat place and the 393 RPM should do 47km/h at maximum and maximum Efficiency is on that velocity, I guess. But I will not be able to run always at 47km/h!! There are places, even if flat, I will need to go at 20km/h or even less due to obstacles. My question is: if I put the throttle at 50%, the RPM should be 393/2, right? so the velocity will be 23.5km/h and the Efficiency of the motor will be the maximum at that velocity?

I am using right now a Cute-85 250W 24V motor for 16'' but installed on a 26'' wheel (see my post here). I will change for the Bafang 48V500W BPM 393 RPM soon as it arrives:
Image

Example of my riding (pictures from my Android My Tracks software):
Image

Image

Image
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby miuan » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:38 am

Yes that's right. Efficiency is always good if you don't load the motor too much. So on flat road, it should always be about 77-82% depending on speed. It only drops when you want more power (acceleration, ascents).
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby d8veh » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:09 am

Nice bike. I think you'll find that the BPM motor will make your journey a lot more enjoyable. Let us know how you get on.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby casainho » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:13 pm

Image

I just got my motor and all other components (6 days delay on portuguese costums. I am blogging here, with more pictures.

Since the motor manual says it is IP54, do you guys think it can handle rain? is it safe to use it on rainy days?

IP54:
Dust protected: Ingress of dust is not entirely prevented, but it must not enter in sufficient quantity to interfere with the satisfactory operation of the equipment; complete protection against contact
Splashing water: Water splashing against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effect.


Battery Charger not working

The first time I connected the battery charger to my house power mains, all the power went black/off!! I tested again and I got the same result. I started to inspect the 230V fuse on the charger and it was perfectly. Then I did open the charger to see if I could visually see anything wrong. I did suspect of earth connection and I went to compare this charger with the other I have working. Turns out that the earth connection were soldered on wrong place - I just soldered it on correct place and now the charger is working and charging the battery :-)

I must say I have electronics knowledge and I have a small company of electronics. I am sad to know that BMSBattery ship not tested components. But I must say I am happy with their products and they even resolved some issues (like refund money from costums because they did a mistake and sent me the package by DHL instead of EUEXP), they take no more than 24h to answer by e-mail. This is my 3rd electric system that I bought from them and I am an happy costumer.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby d8veh » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:58 pm

The BPM motor is not completely waterproof. Water can get in the hole where the wire comes out. Make sure that the wire goes downwards from the motor and then back up again. This stops the water running down the wire into the motor. Also, you can put some sealant there after installation. You might want to put some sealant on the disc brake screws as well.
Faulty wiring is common on this Chinese stuff - best to always check it. Also check that the sequence on each side of your, throttle and pedal sensor connectors is correct (colours).
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby casainho » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:00 pm

d8veh wrote:The BPM motor is not completely waterproof. Water can get in the hole where the wire comes out. Make sure that the wire goes downwards from the motor and then back up again. This stops the water running down the wire into the motor.

Good idea :-) Thanks.

d8veh wrote:Faulty wiring is common on this Chinese stuff - best to always check it. Also check that the sequence on each side of your, throttle and pedal sensor connectors is correct (colours).

I am sure it is a person who solder the wires. I understand why the mistakes, since the factories seems to do slavery "labor".

Bafang 48V500W BPM Front Driving Hub Motor spokes

My mechanic is having a lot of difficult to lace the spokes (on 26'' wheel) because he can't find spokes of 220mm length (he thinks that 220mm is the correct size). Also the motor touches on the brake (from the disk brake) and seems that the solution is to go from the 160mm to 180mm diameter disk brake and put the brake far 10mm from the center. Resuming: find first the correct size of spokes and buy them from BMSBattery or buy the full wheel. Also this motor is larger than the others I used so please verify in your bicycle using the mechanical drawing of this Bafang motors.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby d8veh » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:54 am

I bought my spokes and rim from BMSBattery. The spokes are 210mm from the middle of the bend to the end . The rim is 530mm from the inside of the rim from one side to the other. I bought two sets and have already built one wheel with these parts so I no that they are exactly right. I used a cross 2 spoke pattern.

Some brake callipers are thinner than others. There was a thread about this about 2 months ago. You need at least 180mm disk. If your caliper mounts on a carrier, you can thin down the carrier a bit by filing or milling to bring the disk a bit closer to the frame.

When you have the disk in the right position and your wheel installed, the rim probably won't be central, so you need to give it back to your wheel-builder to dish the wheel: That means move the rim away from the centre of the hub but central to the frame. The hub-motor is not symmetrical.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby casainho » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:00 am

d8veh wrote:I bought my spokes and rim from BMSBattery. The spokes are 210mm from the middle of the bend to the end . The rim is 530mm from the inside of the rim from one side to the other. I bought two sets and have already built one wheel with these parts so I no that they are exactly right. I used a cross 2 spoke pattern.

Thanks. Right now my mechanic found the spokes he needed (I guess 220mm) and laced the motor. He says he used 3.5mm diameter spokes while the originals from the bicycle were about 2mm diameter... so, it's now more a electric motorcycle than a bicycle :-(

d8veh wrote:Some brake callipers are thinner than others. There was a thread about this about 2 months ago. You need at least 180mm disk. If your caliper mounts on a carrier, you can thin down the carrier a bit by filing or milling to bring the disk a bit closer to the frame.

Thank you, I will pass this information to the mechanic.

d8veh wrote:When you have the disk in the right position and your wheel installed, the rim probably won't be central, so you need to give it back to your wheel-builder to dish the wheel: That means move the rim away from the centre of the hub but central to the frame. The hub-motor is not symmetrical.

He told me that he did this already when laced. I didn't saw yet the result, will see tomorrow morning.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby casainho » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:48 pm

PUTA MADRE, I almost killed myself!!

I went to make a quick test drive after my mechanic got the motor laced and the brake disk ready. The first thing I verified was that the wheel skidded (and I weight near 100kg). I drove for 60 meters and my mechanic told me after that I went for more than 50km/h, that I were quicker than a motorbike!! He told me that he were afraid.

At the end of the 60 meters I braked and turned back, were I decided to pull the throttle to full and again the wheel skidded and I quick decided to make a small raise the wheel so it could run at full speed and than skid even more when touching in the road, BUT, when the wheel touch the road it instead broke the fork!!! I took a fall, and I am ok but I could be dead for now if this happened when I got high speeds.

Image

Image

Image

So, I would like to know in what kind of bicycle are people using this motor...... can you please share some pictures? Are there some special forks to handle all this power??

My mechanic told me that he was afraid because the motor is heavy and large... we think that the wheel got movement and with all his weight and being large it can't be quick stopped... that is what happened when I did the small raise and when it touched on the road.

right now I am really afraid to use again this motor and bicycle. I don't even know if I trust on the 250W motor and this bicycle, since I got top speeds of 40km/h.

Any suggestions/help for a cyclist that is now afraid to use electric bicycle at higher speeds than 25km/h and with a motor more powerful than 250W? thank you.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby cwah » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:42 pm

You need 2 good torque arms on the bike fork. Otherwise the forkend may not be able to handle that power and just crack as it did.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby casainho » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:48 pm

cwah wrote:You need 2 good torque arms on the bike fork. Otherwise the forkend may not be able to handle that power and just crack as it did.

Thank you!! Do you know if I can find it on some online shop? or will I need to do them for myself? -- I wish I can buy it on BMSBattery or something like.
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  2. Bluetooth communications with SmartPhones
  3. wireless communications between each three systems
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby cwah » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:59 pm

The ones from doc seem quite strong (but not very pretty):
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=29129
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby rojitor » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:39 pm

For front kits two torque arms is a must and c washers are very important as well.Image
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby casainho » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:45 pm

rojitor wrote:For front kits two torque arms is a must and c washers are very important as well.

Now I remember to see some "special" washers that came with the Bafang motor, it they are the C washers.

I can't find a site/shop with clear information for arm torques to ALU front forks/fron hub motor......
Smart EBike (OpenSource): Dashboard/color display with touchscreen + Motor controller + Battery pack BMS:
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  2. Bluetooth communications with SmartPhones
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby rojitor » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:36 pm

Try here meu amigo http://www.crystalyte-europe.com/home.php?cat=299 or maybe even here because they are partners http://www.greentarget.pt/
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby cwah » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:37 am

What's the difference between torque arm and C washer? They look very similar to me.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby rojitor » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:05 am

I guess you see a similar shape with doc's torque arms cwah, they are nothing alike though, a c washer weighs like 2 grames and is smaller than your thumbnail,like 1/10 size of the axle nut, it is designed to make the perfect pressure on the dropouts.
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Re: Bafang Bpm, how many RPM?

Postby cwah » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:08 am

Ok, it's like the standard washer I already have on my motor axle. Thanks.
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