Hub Motor Wheel Builds!

I am curious how many people have had trouble with the stock wheel/spoke configuration of their hub motor, and how many have not.

It has come to my attention that some companies seem to be getting beyond the old school 12G spokes and building better wheels instead of just adding large spokes that generally don't tension well, and thus cause problems like I had with my old first generation Amped Bikes Direct Drive hub.

Early on, many of the E-Bike wheels being used by companies just had standard bicycle rims & spokes, and then things went the other direction with 12G and larger spokes being put into rims that couldn't allow for full tension of the spokes, and allowed them to loosen on a regular basis.

I just learned that Golden Motor for one has started offering normal sized spokes in what would appear to be a better built wheel, and using lock-tight on the spoke nipples.

Now that I have had a really nice wheel built by a professional wheel builder, and learned from members here who know a great deal more than I do about building wheels, I am in search of the better factory hub motor wheels.

Please share your experiences!

Thanks!

My golden motor clone came with heavy spokes and a Samson rim. I've had endless trouble keeping it true and the spokes tight. After my next build is up I plan on relacing it myself into a good rim with quality spokes. Will be my first attempt so should be fun.

Gary

GrayKard said:

My golden motor clone came with heavy spokes and a Samson rim. I've had endless trouble keeping it true and the spokes tight. After my next build is up I plan on relacing it myself into a good rim with quality spokes. Will be my first attempt so should be fun.

Gary

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Golden Motor clone? As in a motor from GM that was a clone of someone else's?

LI-ghtcycle said:

Golden Motor clone? As in a motor from GM that was a clone of someone else's?

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No, a clone of the older 1000 watt Golden motor. Here's a picture of it right before install.

Getting the motors made with reasonable spoke holes is the first challenge that all retailers need to push. Cell man has been helping greatly with this. My ideal 1hp hub would have 2.5mm spoke hole diameter with 13/15/14 butted spokes laced into any quality eyeletted rim. My ideal big power power hub (like the cromotor) would have 3.5mm holes for 10 through 12ga spokes.

johnrobholmes said:

Getting the motors made with reasonable spoke holes is the first challenge that all retailers need to push. Cell man has been helping greatly with this. My ideal 1hp hub would have 2.5mm spoke hole diameter with 13/15/14 butted spokes laced into any quality eyeletted rim. My ideal big power power hub (like the cromotor) would have 3.5mm holes for 10 through 12ga spokes.

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Good point JRH, thank you for mentioning the high power stuff, for that end of the spectrum, 12G makes perfect sense.

I'm talking more of the "500Watt" class of hub motors (yeah they are really pushed closer to 1000Watt, but that's how most of them are marketed) in the 1 hp and below.

Any big name factory sellers like GM/Amped/Ebikekit/Etc. selling a decent wheel from the factory? (I'm not counting the ones where the seller gets motors and laces new wheels & spokes to make it a better wheel build, just looking at what comes directly from China at this point. )

So Cellman is selling a decent wheel build with his kits then? That sounds great! What gauge are the spokes?

Last I talked with Paul they were using 13ga stainless spokes on his factory built wheels.

johnrobholmes said:

Last I talked with Paul they were using 13ga stainless spokes on his factory built wheels.

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Kewl! Sounds like he has a pretty good set-up! Thanks! 8)

MXUS motor: 12ga spokes, no problem on that one obviously
MAC hub motor: has needed to be trued once. That's about it.

That's with 240lb me, major hills and 2-4kW..

I use 13G stainless steel spokes and a choice of Alex rims for my Mac kits. I'm planning in the future to stop offering the MXUS with the standard rim and spokes from the factory and doing these in-house too. In 26" I have 3 rim choices, DH19, DM24 with cnc sidewall for rim brakes and an all black DM24 for disc. I do make sure the wheels are properly trued and tensioned, even use 1 of those Park Tolls spoke tension meters. I have a worker that does the wheels for me now, he can true maybe 5 or 6 wheels in a day and I always tell him to take his time to get them right. Getting someone trained up to do the wheel builds to a good standard has been a major PITA and we have come along quite a bit with regards the wheel builds in the last 6 months or so.

I always build my own wheels:-




Mavic A319 rim, Halo DB spokes (14g/16g). Never had to retrue it after the first week of riding.

*drooling at caterham / vintage lotus*

yeah.. n..nice wheel..

neptronix said:

*drooling at caterham / vintage lotus*

yeah.. n..nice wheel..

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What wheel? :wink:

That's like my wife asking me what I think about a new dress etc when I spy a younger more busty version walking past behind her.....

neptronix said:

*drooling at caterham / vintage lotus*

yeah.. n..nice wheel..

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Oh yeah - I built that too - have real issues letting other people build stuff for me

Link for those who are interested (it has different wheels on it now):-

http://web.bethere.co.uk/amigafan2003/

How about
standard 229mm motor conversion to casted 26" wheel?
MOQ to begin designing - 30 pcs from China factory ...

cell_man said:

I use 13G stainless steel spokes and a choice of Alex rims for my Mac kits. I'm planning in the future to stop offering the MXUS with the standard rim and spokes from the factory and doing these in-house too. In 26" I have 3 rim choices, DH19, DM24 with cnc sidewall for rim brakes and an all black DM24 for disc. I do make sure the wheels are properly trued and tensioned, even use 1 of those Park Tolls spoke tension meters. I have a worker that does the wheels for me now, he can true maybe 5 or 6 wheels in a day and I always tell him to take his time to get them right. Getting someone trained up to do the wheel builds to a good standard has been a major PITA and we have come along quite a bit with regards the wheel builds in the last 6 months or so.

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Wonderful! I am very happy to hear that you are taking the time to do this right, I can imagine it has been difficult to get them put together correctly in China, it's hard enough to find a good wheel builder even in Portland! :lol:

How soon do you expect that you might have the DD rear motor kits with the same 13G spokes?

neptronix said:

MXUS motor: 12ga spokes, no problem on that one obviously
MAC hub motor: has needed to be trued once. That's about it.

That's with 240lb me, major hills and 2-4kW..

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How long have you been using the 12G spoke wheel? I had one of the early Amped Bikes wheels with the double walled Champion Rim, and after about a year and a half or so, it started to develop hair line cracks on rim at the spokes.

The reason I am asking, is I'm looking at either buying bare hubs and lacing the wheels, or finding someone who is already doing them at the factory so I don't have to go to the trouble. :wink:

I'm sure a pretty good wheel can still be built with 12G spokes, however, according to my wheel builder (and others here on ES that I consider expert) as long as you are using standard bicycle components (bicycle rims and hubs) 12G are a bad idea since the amount of tension required for that spoke puts more stress on the typical bicycle rim than it can really withstand and keep proper tension.

amigafan2003 said:

I always build my own wheels:-

Mavic A319 rim, Halo DB spokes (14g/16g). Never had to retrue it after the first week of riding.

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Very nice! I'm going to school to learn to do that from one if not the best bicycle schools in the USA to learn how best to do just that too, however, I'd rather buy a hub motor kit that has already been built with a decent wheel. :wink:

I'm very picky too, but I learned my lesson trying to figure it out on my own, and ended up tacoing a wheel from over-tensioning the spokes! :lol:

I'm much more cautious these days, and haven't had a problem just truing up a wheel or replacing a spoke or two, but I have never laced up a wheel, and would prefer to leave that up to my wheel builder until I get a chance to learn where she did, and then decide if it's something I want to do or continue to have done.

I used to do more things myself, but in the end I have decided to do what I do best, and pay the experts to do the things I'm not as good at.

***EDIT*** I missed that bit at the bottom, very kewl, sounds like a decent build and with a good size of spokes! The two wheels that I had built have been through hell, hitting 3 and 4 inch high curbs at 20 - 25 MPH and never had to be trued! I use balloon tires, and I am sure that has helped, but from the very beginning these wheels have not even required a re-tensioning much less truing, almost all the machine built wheels I have had in the past have required both, and on a regular basis.

I wish they made some 32 hole hub motors cause most decent rims are 32 spokes right?

Enpro said:

I wish they made some 32 hole hub motors cause most decent rims are 32 spokes right?

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I don't know, I have most of mine built with 36H.

I think for a E-Bike, you're really looking for durability, IMHO, 32H isn't a terrible option, but more spokes generally means higher weigh capacity, and since you're already going to be on the heavier side of a bicycle wheel (unless you're trying to build a really light weight 700c E-assist rather than true E-Bike or something) 36H is a better option.

If you're talking about 32 VS 36 aren't you talking about the miniscule weight savings of going 32? And if you are, it would sound like super light racing components that really aren't what you want for an E-Bike anyway. :wink:

Can anyone confirm for me what size the latest Golden Motor Magic Pie wheels use 14G spokes? I talked with a gent from Golden Motor CA, and it sounds like that is the case, but he seemed a bit unclear if this was true or not.

Also, it would seem they are using lock-tight on the spoke nipples now, can anyone confirm this?

Thanks!