New to board...Hello

[smudger1956]

Hello all, I am Tony from West London, England, I have just got into E-Biking, I am using the Cyclamatic Power Plus for commuting, this bike seemed the best value of the cheap end of E-Bikes, for what is does I am pleased.
I have carried out a shunt mod, which has given me a slight increase in performance, started searching the net to find out more on ‘performance enhancing’ and came across this site, all I can say is ‘wow’, the performance figures you guys are getting is staggering, bordering on madness..!! which actually makes me feel very much at home, I feel I am amongst friends………….
Realising the shortcomings of pushing my Cyclamatic into the boundaries of performance and comfortable riding. (I can just imagine those Chinese ball bearings letting go big time, and hitting the binders on a downhill jolly at 30mph+ left a lot to be desired)
Armed with the knowledge of a conversion of a half decent bike is the way to go, I managed to obtain a Commencal Supreme as my donor bike for conversion. Not sure what hub to get, pondering MagicPie or Crystalyte, the MP3 looks very ‘plug n play’ for a quick conversion.
LiPo’s for power source, I use 6s1p 5000mah packs in my RC aircraft models, so well genned up on ‘well behaved incendiary devices’ as we call them.
All the best.
Tony

[miuan]

Welcome to ES and enjoy!
I've done 2 similar FS bikes (Kona Stinky and Spec Enduro) for my friends.
Kona has a Golden Motor 500W motor, Enduro uses a BPM 500W motor.
Your best bet for good durability, weight and performance would be MAC 500/1000W rear motor from user cell_man.
Both bikes use a 74V lipo battery in backpack connected with 12G silicone wire using 4mm bullets.
Controller in front of headtube for best cooling, 12G phase wires cable-tied to downtube.
Double torque arms, this voltmeter on the stem.

[Planky]

Hello and welcome,

The ES members are full of useful information and are extremely helpful.
Read all about hub motors and rc motors before deciding which route to take.
Also the simulator at http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator/ is an excellent source of performance information.

Have fun!

[Ypedal]

Welcome aboard.... bike looks the part !..

Is the rear axle 10mm ?. most hub motors are but some higher end bikes have larger dropout slots.. 12mm+.. .. worth checking before going too deep.

If you want to push well over 1000w, go with a Direct Drive motor ..

The geared motors, BMC/ MAC , are ok if you play nice, on roads... but if you go bashing around with high power non-geared is the only way to go.

[Brentis]

Welcome aboard.... bike looks the part !..

Is the rear axle 10mm ?. most hub motors are but some higher end bikes have larger dropout slots.. 12mm+.. .. worth checking before going too deep.

If you want to push well over 1000w, go with a Direct Drive motor ..

The geared motors, BMC/ MAC , are ok if you play nice, on roads... but if you go bashing around with high power non-geared is the only way to go.

+1

Welcome, I lusted after that bike for a while.

If your are going to be doing more road than off-road I would consider a rear MAC set-up, as well.
Nice & light, powerful/fast enough for 90% of Ebikers.

If you are more inclined to take drops than asphalt, your choice is made, Direct Drive hub.

Curious about the dropout situation & how you plan to mount batteries?

Consider side-saddle style

Commencal Supreme. side saddle batt.JPG (72.57 KiB) Viewed 541 times

in addition to front mount.

Commencal Supreme. Front batt..JPG (62.35 KiB) Viewed 541 times

There are plenty of builds using both styles.
Unfortunately center frame battery mount is out.(maybe 37v8ah RC Lipo)

Good luck.

[vintagerider]

Welcome Tony i also am new to site but everyone here is helpful and friendly, love that pic of stig

[NeilP]

Hi Smudger..I just blitzed you with a full on PM.
Welcome

[MadRhino]

I like the 6.3 for conversion, this bike is stiff and rides nicely at 50 Mph.

How I'd do it:

8 bricks of 6s 8000mah Lipo for 24s 2p, 100v hot 16A capacity. 4 mounted in the front, and the other 4 on the frame.
Chrystalyte H series motor, upgraded phase wires
18 fet 4110 controller, upgraded to regen 100v and feed 10 + Kw
Half grip throttle

Cut your dropouts from a 1/4" + steel plate, fit them with epoxy and one chainring bolt. You need steel dropouts each side.

Find a dual crown DH fork, mount the front batteries on the fork under the stem, a 110 or 120mm stem is best to set the handlebar mount right on top middle of the battery weight.

The frame mount batteries can be placed on the top tube in a small saddlebag pair, either close to the seat tube or far enough in the front not to bother your knees while pedaling the bike.

Use 8 ga silicon wire for battery harness and phase, and connectors rated for 75 Amp continuous, bullit and/or Anderson powerpoles.

With this motor and frame dimensions, you will be able to fit an 8 spd freewheel, ideally an 11-34t. Use a grip shifter mounted reverse on the left side, for the throttle will take the room on the right.

This will make a beast of your Supreme Fr 6.3, you can use a 3 spd switch, to be able to have it easy with the throttle that will be twitchy at start up.

Either fit a switch to your Hydro brake lever for regen, of buy a switched lever for the rear brake.
If you have long climbs to do, or long technical sections where you'd have to slow down considerably, you have to install a thermometer probe inside the motor stator near the windings, to be able to monitor temp.

Buy a CA, mounted on the handlebar with the temp monitor, they will tell you everything you need to know about your system performance.

Good luck with your build.

[dogman]

Welcome to the source. Only problem is you will lose sleep for 2-3 months as you data mine the numerous great build threads.

Close your eyes, get out the charge card, and get going without too much agony over which motor. If you ride, you'll be on to another one soon anyway. Either melted or something worse, but no tears since it's all such good fun whether the result is high torque or high temperatures. Good clean fun, and still cheaper than many other hobbies. Half the time the building is just as fun as the riding, so you'll soon have a garage full of old motors like the rest of us.

Let er rip!

[rojitor]

Welcome to the forum tony, seems you are already familiar with lipo so i guess you will make a great build. Good luck with your project.

[smudger1956]

Thank you all for the welcome, and the tech info, very much appreciated. The geometry of the FS frame does not lend itself to the 'super neat' battery install,plan is to use 4-6s1p5000mah Lipo's to start, had a play in PS and came up with a couple of options, hang them off the down tube, or go a seat post rack.Been sketching out the wiring and charging harness and on board lipo monitoring.
I have a small workshop at home, and full access to the engineering workshop at work, so any metal fettling will not be a problem.
I guess most of my riding will be errr' discreet on road'..... with the occasional off road excursion........
Keep you posted.
All the best.
Tony.

p.s...MadRhino..that spec you listed...made my mouth go all dry reading that.............lol...

[Brentis]

+1
To downtube placement.
Almost everyone will warn you against rear rack mount.
That would ruin the handling of such a fine machine.
If you can cut&paste&heat, you could fab. up something for the downtube.

[lester12483]

I disagree, rear racks work fine.

[Brentis]

+1
...
Almost everyone will warn you against rear rack mount.
...

I disagree, rear racks work fine.

You are one of the almost.
Please dont take that as a hit/knock.
Rear rack is manageable for a beach/comfort bike.

A machine of this caliber deserves better.

[dogman]

Eh, two bricks on the rack won't faze your handling that much. Even 4 is not so bad. But don't go there to carry 8 bricks on a rear rack if you care about handling.

Not worried about stealth on a bike that rides 98% dirt, I just did the saddlebag type boxes. Wide yes, but pedaling barely happens on this bike.

Dogmans Dirt bomber. small.jpg (95.96 KiB) Viewed 420 times

BTW if 56 is the year you were born, you are officially an old fart like me, 58.

[smudger1956]

[quote="dogmanBTW if 56 is the year you were born, you are officially an old fart like me, 58.[/quote]

Yes..lol......us 'old farts...young hearts' must stick together...Age and treacherousness will always exceed youth and exuberance...!!!

All the best.
Tony

[Brentis]

If you guys are old farts, then I must be middle aged.
35, But I feel like Im 16 most days.
Middle aged yikes

[MadRhino]

35, But I feel like Im 16 most days.

I'm 64 and I feel the same, some days

[smudger1956]

+1
To downtube placement.
Almost everyone will warn you against rear rack mount.
That would ruin the handling of such a fine machine.
If you can cut&paste&heat, you could fab. up something for the downtube.

I have to admit, the downtube mounting looks 'right' for the weight 'distribution and balance'.

All the best.
Tony

[MadRhino]

For off road, fitting batteries under the down tube is risky and would need a strong enclosure and skid plate, that would add a lot of weight. I prefer mounting them on the fork, where they are not likely to take a hit and help retaining the original balance of the bike. The 18 fet controller fits in the triangle, where it has good protection and air flow.

[smudger1956]

For off road, fitting batteries under the down tube is risky and would need a strong enclosure and skid plate, that would add a lot of weight. I prefer mounting them on the fork, where they are not likely to take a hit and help retaining the original balance of the bike. The 18 fet controller fits in the triangle, where it has good protection and air flow.

Thanks for your input MR, you have a good point there , I dont want to restrict the use of the bike because of a 'fragile' lipo install, I've seen some spectacular and expensive Lipo fires in my time......

ATB.
Tony

[dogman]

Some bikes really do seem to have a lot of space under the downtube. I've thought I wanted to keep all the clearance, in case I fully compress the cheaper forks I've had on some of my dirtbikes.

Definitely want some kind of armor on the lipo. My boxes were made with old aluminum road signs I happend to have laying around the garage. We still see proud new ebike owners posting pics of thier new bike, with lipos duct taped all over the frame. Makes me shudder. They always say, " I ride carefull so I won't crash" I know for a fact I'll crash the dirt bike. My lipo boxes are all dinged, but the batts are just fine. Part of why I settled on that method was so I can quickly get the burning lipo off the bike if I have to.

[LegendLength]

Take note the batteries need at least 1/2 inch of room between each other for the cabling, although you could run it down the sides to reduce that to like 1/4 inch.

Personally for that frame I'd go down the 'tiling' route, where you use smaller batteries tiled on each side of the frame rather than the larger 6s batteries. You end up with more cabling but you get a better look. Depends on how much you value aesthetics over quick-build i guess.

[smudger1956]

Take note the batteries need at least 1/2 inch of room between each other for the cabling, although you could run it down the sides to reduce that to like 1/4 inch.

Personally for that frame I'd go down the 'tiling' route, where you use smaller batteries tiled on each side of the frame rather than the larger 6s batteries. You end up with more cabling but you get a better look. Depends on how much you value aesthetics over quick-build i guess.

Thanks LL, as it happens..I thought about smaller packs, I will be seeing my Lipo supplier tonight at an Electric RC model Flight meet, and going to bend his ear and pick his brains over a pint or 2. I do value aesthetics, and can get a bit 'perverse' about installations...........

ATB
Tony

[LegendLength]

Tony whichever route you choose I'd suggest taking some time to play with the different battery sizes using stencils, cardboard etc.. It's can be fiddly and time consuming but I think it's something that needs to be done if you have any care for the looks of the build. That frame is pretty awesome IMO and deserves some respect for it's figure

The wiring can take up significant size and of course the padding + outer casing takes up a good 1/3 inch in itself. I know when I did my case it took a few builds to get right and hours of laying out batteries in different configurations. The wiring in particular took up more space than I imagined, partially because I used Sermos / Anderson connectors which are a little larger than bullets.

Some of the factors you may like to consider (for battery layout) are:

- Space for wiring
- Padding
- Case material / strength for worst case scenario (i.e. crashing)
- Ability to remove / install the batteries as a single pack (often overlooked IMO)
- Ease of charging. i.e. put batteries into parallel then series them so they can be broken back into parallel easily.
- The routing for cables running from the throttle, voltage meter and e-brake to the battery and the cables running from the batteries to the controller. The length of the latter cables can have a surprising impact on efficiency.
- Space for the controller and whether it will sit inside your battery case or not. Need to consider airflow / vents if it's inside.
- Space for a battery disconnect relay or switch which can be quite large depending on the power draw.
- Some way to mount the battery box to the frame without having any screws, cable ties or other sharp things rubbing against the batteries inside.
- Perhaps room for a BMS such as methods' ( viewtopic.php?f=31&t=36414 ) if you're going the LiPo route.

Matt