building ebikes for other people?

i ride my ebike to work everyday when its not raining, and a few of the people that i work with are really interested in my bike and are looking at me to build one for them..

one wants to go 35kms each way and the return home is going up some pretty big hills so ive been talking him to go the drive through the gears route like a cyclone kit
but 35kms is a lot of battery to be lugging around especially if you want to be going a decent speed, can charge at work so that makes it a bit easier..
the problem here would be the battery pack, im thinking 48volts and 20ah, and limit the bike to a 20amp draw so should make it home with some to spare,
am i right in the sizing of the battery pack, on 36v i can go 40kmh at 20amps on a flat road, so the extra volts should be good, this bike would have to be fool proof so lifepo4 would be best..

another wants one for a bit of fun, for some slow relaxed biking and wants a bike that is complete so she wouldnt have to lift a finger, she is looking at the prebuilt bikes that are on offer
but ive been trying to convince her that they are over priced for what you get and that i could build her a better one for cheaper, looking at a magicpie3 setup or even a geared hub motor..
i dont know much about geared hub motors, i havnt looked at them as an option before as they dont seem to be powerful enough for my applications so i dont know whats good or bad..
how strong the gears/clutches are, are they a wear and tear parts that you periodically have to replace or are they designed to outlast the rest of the motor..
i like the idea 'built to last' so would a mp3 handle the slow hills or would a geared hub be a better option, looking for opinions..
am i right in talking her out of the prebuilt bikes, they seem perfect for her application but are just too expensive for my liking..

these bikes like all useful ebikes would be overpowered according to the road laws of australia, would i have to get these people to sign a form to say that
they acknowledge that the bikes are over powered and that i cant be held responsible for anything that could happen to them, what do other people do?

all this started when i told them i wanted to build another one of my own so that i would have a spare that i could ride with a friend or if my main one was broken down..
ive had a few problems with my cyclone setup with the motor mount coming out of alignment and causing excessive wear and tear on the driveline..
my commute is 20kms each way with charging at work always done, slight uphill on the way home..
i would love to do an rc setup but the whole motor mount, reduction gearing would be impossible for me to make with the tools i have..
a magicpie3 setup would be nice also as it is on the cheaper side but that would seem like a step back in power for what i have already 36volt magicpie would be slow, if i want to build another one i dont see the point in not upgrading..
or a magicpie with external controller to up the volts for more speed, but then i wouldnt be able to share the battery pack between my 2 bikes, i dont think the cyclone would like 72volts through it, and neither would the driveline..
the next option would be a cromotor/lyen setup but that seems to be more money than i can justify for an a2b work horse..
then that brings me to another cyclone setup, but i would like to do something different..
36volts, or 12s lifepo4 is the magic number as i have a hyperion1420 charger so keeping it in its range would help with bulk/balance charging and when i up to 72volts i can just get another hyperion1420..

even though i want more power now, im still leaning towards a magicpie3 and then when i get bored with it ill change to an external controller and add another battery to up the voltage,
with a split battery id be able to take one out to use on the other bike if i want to go biking with a friend, what kind of power can the magicpie take for probably half hour continuous, i wish someone would just make up my mind for me..

so there you have it 3 completely different circumstances three completely different ebikes, are my suggestions correct for my work mates and will i be happy with a magicpie3 setup?

cheers adrian.

Building a Cyclone conversion to go 70 Km on a regular basis would be the gift that would keep on giving,
Giving you more work....and more work....and...

these bikes like all useful ebikes would be overpowered according to the road laws of australia, would i have to get these people to sign a form to say that
they acknowledge that the bikes are over powered and that i cant be held responsible for anything that could happen to them, what do other people do?

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I think they don't build Ebikes for other people.
Not trying to be a smart a$$, but as a long time motorcyclist, I learned a long time ago not to and try too hard to put people[especially ex-wives] on two wheels. If and when[usually this]they get hurt, one feels really bad.
Maybe for a best riding buddy or if it's something that they know they want to do on their own volition[which at this point, they should be willing and able to build their own].

It is difficult to build for people as the bikes inevitably have some problems ( still ebikes are for hobbyists until you get an ebike shop in your neighborhood) and people who do not have experience think that The whole bike or kit is crap. I hear it all the time someone with a new bike complains the gears are not good ( a minor adjustment) or they ride my bike and complain that there foot hits a wire. So just be prepared for that, no good deed goes unpunished.

But then there is getting hurt, they may, so the written Liability waver is important, smart man. You know they could have a throttle failure that causes wide open throttle, so you need a kill switch.

But even with all that if you want to build for someone else a geared kit from cellman, hub prebuilt into a wheel, with a triangle battery LifePo4, and you have a plug and play for your lady friend. Make sure they pay up front and include a hundred dollars for your labor as you will have to place the kit, then fix it later too. Then have the guy build it himself, so he can fix it.

Just my 2 cents. I almost built a kit up for a guy I work with and then he did get seriously hurt doing something else, and he is out of work and everything, so i never did build him a bike, but would feel awful if that happened to him from an Ebike I built.

i agree the cyclone kit isnt the most reliable kit there is but i dont know of any other that would handle hill climbing and good speed on the flats..
35kms is a long time to be sitting on a bike so it would need a decent speed..
good point in getting him to build it himself, maby i just give him some links to the sites recommended for kits and batterys and let him do it himself..

the lady is going to buy an ebike eventually anyway as her parents have and she wants to ride with them, they spent $2500 each on theirs,
which is just ridiculous where i could make one with five times as much power twice as much battery for half the price..

but yes i would feel bad if they got hurt riding

cheers adrian

I hope we didn't rain too much on the parade, because I know your feeling. You are having so much fun and helping the world doing it and want to share that with others. I feel the same way, but just wanted to point out possible downsides.
But on the other hand, if we didn't share and help others, we wouldn't be much of a society.
So maybe, steer, guide and nurture is the best path.

I have been riding with a BMC hub 600w front motor. It has the newer blue planetary gears. I go up a 10% grade at about 23mph pulling 1400 watts. If you limit it to 20 amps you will do about 17 mph. I can go 28mph on a flat pulling about 400 watts. The geared hubs (MAC-BMC) seem to be good and lighter then the BIG DD hubs. I have been kicking around the idea of adding a trike rear end to my full suspension to try to sell some bikes to people that don't feel safe on two wheels.
For myself I would like to build a Kona Stinky and do a mid drive so the small geared motor is in the wheel triangle as the single tire will not be there anymore. And maybe use a derailer to change two speeds. Check this on ebay. Good for girls and Old people.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170809053283?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I just did a conversion for a friend a few weeks ago. I showed her what was available in factory-built bikes online and she decided to let me do a conversion on hers for less money. So far it is working great, but if it breaks, I am sure I'll be the 1st to know.
- Mark

I also built in electric bicycle for a friend. Anything wrong bicycle related like brakes or gears I had to hear about it. She couldnt just take it to a regular bicycle shop or do the repairs herself. She called me for everything.

So I don't think I'll be building any more bikes for people. I just don't have the time to deal with any of those small issues.

Jason27 said:

I also built in electric bicycle for a friend. Anything wrong bicycle related like brakes or gears I had to hear about it. She couldnt just take it to a regular bicycle shop or do the repairs herself. She called me for everything.

So I don't think I'll be building any more bikes for people. I just don't have the time to deal with any of those small issues.

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I'm the "bike guy" among everyone who knows me, and I hear it all the time about bike problems. The thing is that most of the time it's due to them not maintaining the bike, or riding an old cheap bike. Most people think you don't need to give the bike any attention. They think a bike should cost $100 and never have a single issue and last forever. I'm talking normal pedal bikes, not ebikes.

I can't imagine the issues I'd hear about such as "why is my battery dead?" because again, many people are daft and can barely keep their cell phone charged.

I'm friend's with a new ebike shop in town, I'll refer people there or to this site if they seem like the DIY'er type and technically minded. I've lost interest in building ebikes for people too. But I do offer advice.