5404/5403 The good The bad The ugly

[megacycle]

I see on your pictures Zomgvtek, that your spokes are also improperly laced like mine. The spoke to the outside of the hub should go over the top of the spoke laced to the inside instead of spagetting behind it which applying side force to each spoke. I wonder if they were all laced this way on the larger rims?

[color=#000080]Mine is like that too. I think they were all laced incorrectly.color]

Seconded Same .

[megacycle]

Over crossing spokes is ugly, but not bad at all for wheel durability.
I kept the rim for I found it OK, but relaced it with rim washers.

Are your rim washers flats or an angular profile
My spokes are bending at the nipples from the crazy angle they take, due to the hub diameter.

[MadRhino]

Yep, the washers are angled to align the nipples with the spokes.

[megacycle]

Did you buy, make or mod them

[MadRhino]

If they could be found, I would gladly buy them. It is time consuming to shape them angled, oval, and bore to match the nipple head.

[ZOMGVTEK]

Beautifull job, any concerns about the cable snagging, coming straight out .
Can a cover go over there in case the worst happens lean the wheel against something or even worse, god forbid drop the bike on that side.

I will mount pegs to the swingarm to protect the wire. The bike isnt done yet, the wire will be much closer to the bike and secured better.

[megacycle]

If they could be found, I would gladly buy them. It is time consuming to shape them angled, oval, and bore to match the nipple head.

Group instigated engineered solution coming soon hope. Made in china $100 per million.

[megacycle]

Beautifull job, any concerns about the cable snagging, coming straight out .
Can a cover go over there in case the worst happens lean the wheel against something or even worse, god forbid drop the bike on that side.

I will mount pegs to the swingarm to protect the wire. The bike isnt done yet, the wire will be much closer to the bike and secured better.

Nice, sounds like a motor bike the 5404's have come to be, i was thinking, for my cables, a copex solution.

[Tincan]

Well just took mine for it's first go.

Low batteries, flat tyres, next to no brakes and im still grinning from ear to ear

Over the weekend ill fix up the brakes etc but now i'm content and happy `

[moonshine]

Has anyone relaced the x5404 into any other rims? I have some sun double wide rims (26"/36h). The local bike shop is not quite sure about the nipple size...which means i'll most likely have to find another rim. Duc was trying to get an alexd24 rim, i was thinking an alex dx32 rim (im going for 39mm). Has anyone had a problems with the current rim it's laced in???

[ZOMGVTEK]

Has anyone relaced the x5404 into any other rims? I have some sun double wide rims (26"/36h). The local bike shop is not quite sure about the nipple size...which means i'll most likely have to find another rim. Duc was trying to get an alexd24 rim, i was thinking an alex dx32 rim (im going for 39mm). Has anyone had a problems with the current rim it's laced in???

I don't have more than about 10 miles on my motor yet, but I'm happy with the rim it came with. I never heard anything coming from the wheel under acceleration, it was only when I was doing repeated 12kW WOT runs into 3kW regen did I hear a few 'pings' from the rear wheel. Nothing terribly concerning. My Golden used to make all kinds of sounds.

[Evoforce]

Watch for shavings inside the rims and sharp edges around the holes inside the rim.

[ZOMGVTEK]

Does anyone else have a resonation in the motor at low speeds? It was similar to this with my Golden, but at a higher speed. I'm fairly sure it wasn't there when new, or at least started getting louder. The motor has about 20 miles on it now.

Looks like 18 mph efficiency is down from my 1000W Golden as well. I consumed about 26-27Wh/Mi at 18 MPH, whereas it used to be in the 24 range. However, the bike is new, and the tires are a bit more aggressive. Might just need to break in a bit.
I don't know if its my motor, or controller, but it looks like high speed efficiency is very poor. I'm going to triple check my CA shunt calibration, but it looks like the motor pulls 3kW or so topped out at 41.x MPH and WOT. It takes HOURS to cool down this big motor when it warms up, which is quicker than I would like. It looks like some sort of cooling is a very good idea.

Regardless, my GM was in sad shape, and this motor wasn't that much more than a decent replacement, so its acceptable. This guy throws out some serious power, whereas my GM gave up past 70A or so.

I'm using 12 as the pole count in the CA for speed, and it looks to be accurate. Is this low pole count why my controller won't regen as slow as my GM did? Below about 10-15 MPH nothing at all happens. Above 20 or so it works great, and at 40 it almost locks up the tire with 25A of regen.

[whatever]

some of the x5s has a problem where the motor could move sideways a few mm along the axle, required internal washer to solve it,
I have one it vibrates a bit at different rpm, I never bothered to stop the sideways movement.

[MadRhino]

Has anyone relaced the x5404 into any other rims? I have some sun double wide rims (26"/36h). The local bike shop is not quite sure about the nipple size...which means i'll most likely have to find another rim. Duc was trying to get an alexd24 rim, i was thinking an alex dx32 rim (im going for 39mm). Has anyone had a problems with the current rim it's laced in???

The rim that I got my 5404 laced in, is a copy of an older DH rim, a DT Swiss of the late "90s if my memory is good.
It is stronger than most of today's DH rims, except for the very best that are made of 7000 series Alloys.

Nipples are ordinary 12 ga.
Have the rim re-laced adding nipple washers, and it will last hard riding.

[megacycle]

Has the 5404 been dyno'd yet, no spec's

[moonshine]

Has anyone relaced the x5404 into any other rims? I have some sun double wide rims (26"/36h). The local bike shop is not quite sure about the nipple size...which means i'll most likely have to find another rim. Duc was trying to get an alexd24 rim, i was thinking an alex dx32 rim (im going for 39mm). Has anyone had a problems with the current rim it's laced in???

The rim that I got my 5404 laced in, is a copy of an older DH rim, a DT Swiss of the late "90s if my memory is good.
It is stronger than most of today's DH rims, except for the very best that are made of 7000 series Alloys.

Nipples are ordinary 12 ga.
Have the rim re-laced adding nipple washers, and it will last hard riding.

Rhino,

I've been searchin through the forums about dishing for wider rims and specifically for the dh comp's 135 dropouts. I'm pretty hooked on the surlys. I want to get the large marge....but i'm confused about how its gonna fit into the 135 dropouts...How much dishing is really needed? How much is too much? I saw that you told wayne 1/4" to the left is good. What i plan on doing...is using the spokes that are currently lacing the 5404 into the stock crystalyte rim (i'm hoping to avoid any custom spoke cutting and what not).

I wanted to mount the 5404 without dishing into the regular large marge XC version (26"/36h) :
http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_inf ... _id=415380

As for dishing...well...i could also mount it into the DH version of the large marge (26" with a 17.5mm offset):
http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_inf ... _id=504313

1. Any problems with over a half inch offset?
2. Am i better off going with the XC version and just tightening up the left side spokes to create an offset?
3. Can i even USE the spokes that came with it? I don't see why not....please let me know...
4. WHERE ARE THE THREADS WHERE PEOPLE ARE RELACING 5404s into more BADASS RIMS!!!!

Let me know cause i'm itching to buy the large marge. Looks sooo sick. most likely gonna fit it with the nate tires...well..that is if its not >3" then i'll have to go with the frickin larry's...

Oh and...cycle us superfat??? WAY CHEAPER!!! Anyone know the difference? Is it just like sony/samsung vs everything else? Surlys~130-180 Superfats~80-90
http://www.choppersus.com/store/product ... 2.5-Black/

[MadRhino]

Yep, you can dish half an inch NP, even more if needed. 2 spoke length are needed when dishing a lot.
Re-using the spokes with a different rim might not fit. This one is deeper than most, many other rims will need longer spokes.

Lacing a wheel is lacing any wheel, no need for a specific thread to lace this motor. Heavier motors though, require a good lacing job to give a chance to the wheel to last. The X54 is heavy enough to destroy a poor lacing job in a very short time.

If you want a wide rim, I suggest that you go with a trial motorcycle rim. The Large Marge is very light for its size, its design is made to be saved by a soft fat tire that will keep it from taking any beating. To give you an idea, those fat Surly 4 in wheels are lighter than most DH racing wheels with a mud tire.

Those balloon tires are not a good ride in all conditions, they are specific for soft terrain, snow, sand, mud. They don't have a stiff enough casing for hard cornering at speed.

[moonshine]

Alright...if they're too soft, then i had my eye on the excel rims. However, my biggest concern is trying to figure out how big i can go. I don't want ridiculously knobby tires. I'll be riding it mostly on the streets (75% of the time) and the other on bike trails in DC (not super intense). I wanted to do a 21"x1.85" excel rim...but GCinDC was telling me that he was running a 19"x?? with 2.75" tires and said he was at the max...I guess i'm a little confused because i have a 26"x1.80" DH rim with 2.7" tires and i have a little room left (actually, for a FS, we'll say that im at my max). Is the 2.75" tire that he's running that TALL? Either way, i wanna pull the trigger on a rim here. I wanted to get a 21"x1.85" (dimpled or non-dimpled???) and put a relatively normal sized tire on it. Probably gonna get buchananspokes to custom lace it with a 1/4" dish. Thoughts?

-Pat

[MadRhino]

Knowing what fits your bike is yours to measure

A 19" motorcycle rim will give a 24" to 25" OD wheel

Suggestion
Rim: Morad TC 19 X 1.60
Tire: Shinko 244

[Tincan]

Well im in love.

I couldn't get enough of it...

Stupidly i upped my lipo pack to 36s and looks like i have killed my 18fet lyen

I belted this motor hard for 20ks and it hardly got warm.... Just need better brakes now.

[SkyCaptain]

Good to hear you really like it "Tincan".
And thanks "Phillistine" for the advice and help with the bearings back in the old sales thread for this motor.

"Tincan",,,Did you up the volts to try and get more top speed?

With the RPM per volt of this motor, I am interested to see what volts you guys running smalller rims will run this motor on to get reasonable top speed.

I got two of these motors. And the first one I installed had a blown bearing out of the box. So, with the dodgy way the wires exit the hub, and my blown bearing, I was initially one of the not so happy ones complaining about QC control lol.

However, after putting my second motor into my bike, and after using it for over a week now on different voltages and controllers, I must admit I am really happy and excited about this motor as well.

It performs exaclty how I was expecting and hoping.
Maybe a little bit slower top speed, but that is also good news, as it just shows what a torquey motor this is.

Also, I noticed this motor can be easy on my controllers.
Because the motor does not strain as hard as the smaller motors, it puts less load on the controller in my opinion.

Thanks again to all those involved in getting these motors here.
I feel really lucky to have been included and have two of these to play with.

[ZOMGVTEK]

Stupidly i upped my lipo pack to 36s and looks like i have killed my 18fet lyen

I belted this motor hard for 20ks and it hardly got warm.... Just need better brakes now.

The 4115's generally don't really tolerate running near the 150V design limit like the 4110's take 100V. 32S is about as high as I would take it.
You must not be beating on the motor enough, since mine was burning hot to the touch after 5 miles of 100Wh/Mi abuse.

Also, it's looking like my bike is more efficient now. It's surprising how much it has changed after a few miles of using it, but the bike rolls much smoother now that it has 50 miles or so on it. I'm getting similar or better efficiencies than what my 1000W GM did, no concerning sounds or issues from the hub or wheel.

I backed the controller down to 8.x kW now that I blew up my 12 FET at 12-13kW, and the bike feels slow. It's really odd how big of a deal the few extra kW is. Going from roughly 8.5kW to 12.5kW is a HUGE difference in rideability. You can snap the throttle WOT at any point now and its just a gentle acceleration, but back when it was at 12kW, it was a wheelie machine that needed to be carefully throttled. It used to feel like a real monster when the front end never stayed down, AND it was accelerating to top speed in something like 2-3 seconds.

I need to get a beefy controller and run it at 15kW. Should be about the limit of whats sane for the frame. It does really good burnouts as is, the motor is SUPER heavy, and it has more than enough power to spin at 40 MPH, so the tire smokes quite a bit instantly.

[megacycle]

but back when it was at 12kW, it was a wheelie machine that needed to be carefully throttled. It used to feel like a real monster when the front end never stayed down, AND it was accelerating to top speed in something like 2-3 seconds.

I need to get a beefy controller and run it at 15kW. Should be about the limit of whats sane for the frame. It does really good burnouts as is, the motor is SUPER heavy, and it has more than enough power to spin at 40 MPH, so the tire smokes quite a bit instantly.

Mmmm video of that would of been ace.

What controllers we looking at ,
Looking at Kelly until Luke put me off ,good to have guru's about who smoke them for a living.

[Tincan]

SkyCaptain - On 30s I did a max speed of 75 that my iPhone recorded. but to be honest, i wasn't trying for a max speed. I dare say there would have been more in it, how much, not quite sure.

I upped it to 36s to be a little silly and see what i "could" do, but alas, i fried the controller. those poor 4115's. Still powers up, just nothing coming out

I have emailed Lyen to see if its worth sending back to get him to fix or just grow a set of brass balls and get the 24 fet and run some more power

If Lyen doesn't have anything to offer it's going to be no choice but to get a kelly.

But for the two days i had it up and going, it was the most amount fun i've had on the thing!