Looking for advice for my first ebike

[tottgwn]

I rode an ebike for the first time over the weekend, and was very quickly converted to the idea of owning one. I dont own a car, and have been commuting by bike 15 miles round trip to work since last August. I did a bunch of research on the forums over the past few days, but would like a bit more advice. Here's what I am looking for...


Speed: 25 mph would be great. The speed limit on my commute to work is 35mph, and due to the number of red lights, thankfully traffic doesnt actually go much faster than that.

Distance: 20-30 miles. My commute is 15 miles round-trip, and would like a few extra miles for random errands.

Hills: Being in Buffalo NY, the area is hardly hilly at all.

DD vs Geared: I would still like to use my bike as a pedal-only bike at times, so I'm leaning towards a geared motor as opposed to direct drive.

Front vs Rear: I really like my current bike (2010 GT Traffic 2.0 - http://bit.ly/Jc9EH4), and due to the rear internal hub, I'll be going for a front wheel setup. The front fork is aluminum, and yes, I'm planning on replacing it with a new steel fork.


As for cost, I'm hoping for under $1200, but reliability is more important to me than cost.


From what I've read, I think I want a 350W geared front hub with a 48V 10Ah lifepo4 from pingbattery. Am I on the right track?

Thanks!

[dogman]

If your little gearmotor has a 15 amp controller able to run 48v, that would theoreticaly be enough watts, around 750, to cruise at 25 mph. With a tiny 15 amp controller a 10 ah ping would have the amps to run the motor, but not the range you crave. The 48v 15 ah would be a better choice, particularly if you decided to up the ante to a 20-25 amp controller later. And you will want to up the ante later. If you don't you'll be nearly the only one.

So go for the motor, but get a 15 ah battery. We can help you with the install on the alloy forks, if the motor will actually fit between the tubes. If not, then get another fork it will fit with.

[el_walto]

Consider getting this motor: http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i5.html
15Ah 48V Ping Battery
15amp-25amp controller

[dogman]

Definitely one good choice for the motor. The BEST choice may depend on what continent you live on.

Edit, OK I'm the dummy, you are in NY. You may live in Vancouver for all we know, where the best ebike kit retailer worldwide lives. Or you may be someplace where importing anything is a sob.

That makes E-BikeKit just about on your doorstep, if you want the shortest possible distance to customer service.

[el_walto]

Definitely one good choice for the motor. The BEST choice may depend on what continent you live on. You may live in Vancouver for all we know, where the best ebike kit retailer worldwide lives. Or you may be someplace where importing anything is a sob.

"Hills: Being in Buffalo NY, the area is hardly hilly at all."

[tottgwn]

Thanks for all the great advice!

Here's what I'm looking at now:

350W MAC motor from emissions-free
48V 20ah Lifepo4 from ping (With the high rate BMS and 5A charger)
20A Infineon Controller from ebikes.ca

I figure I'll probably want extra range sooner or later, so I might as well splurge on the 20ah battery. (I believe I'm correct in assuming that the motor and controller can handle it, and that higher amp-hours is just longer range?)

I was looking at that exact MAC motor over the weekend, but was initially turned off that it didnt come as a kit. Would adding it to my current alloy rims with thicker gauge spokes be fine or do kits usually come with more heavy duty rims?

[wesnewell]

My advice. If you like your current bike don't put a motor on it. Get a cheap bike with steel dropouts and get a rear DD motor. Use it to commute and keep your current bike for a backup or when you want to pedal. You can set up one complete for under $700 including bike.

[tottgwn]

My advice. If you like your current bike don't put a motor on it. Get a cheap bike with steel dropouts and get a rear DD motor. Use it to commute and keep your current bike for a backup or when you want to pedal. You can set up one complete for under $700 including bike.

Yeah, I thought about that for a bit last night and you have a good point. It seems the Genesis V2100 from Walmart is a pretty popular choice...

So at the moment, I'm leaning towards the 500W Rear MAC kit from cellman, the Ping 48V 20Ah lifepo4, and getting a Genesis with a Farfle swingarm. All that hits just under $1400 before shipping, which I can deal with, and gives a little more power that I'll likely want soon after I start riding it. My only worry here is with the Genesis bike - would it stand up to a few years of daily use or should I just look for a better moutain bike at the LBS?

[dogman]

Depends on how much you ride it. I found the wallbike grade frames got really flexy after about 2000 miles. I have about 4000 miles on a better FS frame, with no signs it's getting weaker. Those flexy frames were Y frames though, so perhaps the Genesis will do better. At the least, it should last a solid year of daily use. You will want to replace a few things nearly immediately, like the seat, and perhaps the crank.

Ping 48v 20 ah is too big and heavy to carry on an ebike comfortably. Fine for a cargo bike like a longtail, but your bike will handle like puke if you carry a 48v 20 ah ping on a rear rack, and have a rear motor as well. No way it will fit into the triangle of the frame on a genesis.

I'm not sure if even a 48v 15 ah ping will fit that bikes triangle. 48v 10 ah would be so small the battery would be at risk with anything more than a 15 amp controller.

I think the genesis with steel swingarm is not a bad route to go, but you just need to work out just exactly how to carry the battery. If you want to carry 1000 wh, then you may want to look towards smaller and lighter chemistry than lifepo4. The slightly smaller capacity 48v 15 ah ping is still a good choice if it will fit in the triangle of a genesis. You may want to go with smaller capacity, and get a cellman pack that fits.

[cruiserbikeman]

I've only been riding electric bikes for 7 months (3 months sealed lead acid and 4 months Ping lifepo4 batteries). I feel it's long enough to get the idea of what does what. For the distance you're traveling the 48 volt 15ah Ping battery is good enough. However, you won't be able to keep up with traffic. Cars will go around you. A 60 volt battery is good enough but I don't go further than 8 miles. To be honest I would get a 150cc gas motor scooter if I were in your situation. Remember, electric bikes are an expensive hobby if you want faster speeds. I've spent over $3000 on an electric tricycle, a stand alone kit, and batteries alone. I could have nearly purchased three Tao Tao 150cc motor scooters ( I do own a gas motor scooter) compared to what I spent on ebikes. I did it though because I love riding ebikes as well as riding a gas scooter.

[Drunkskunk]

Keeping your pedal bike a pedal bike and converting something else is probably the best advice.

I would skip the Genesis completely. A good used bike is going to be a far superior bike to the walmart bike in every way.
the wal bike is using an all metal bushing, not a bearing for the main suspension pivot, a fake shock thats really nothing more than a pogo stick style spring, low grade frame materials and workmanship, and geometry meant to look cool, rather than work. Its designed lure parents into buying it for their kids because it looks good.

And full suspension bikes are tricky to convert. its not always the best first conversion.

you would be far better off with a used bike like this: http://buffalo.craigslist.org/bik/2996837674.html

For your motor, I'd suggest getting one of the MAC 500 watt motors from the same source for the rear of the bike. You will be much happier with it in the end.

[tottgwn]

you would be far better off with a used bike like this: http://buffalo.craigslist.org/bik/2996837674.html

Are rim brakes enough for a 500W Mac motor? I currently have some nice KoolStop pads on my pedal-bike, and they do a great job slowing me down even at >20mph in the rain, but I'm wary of using them on a heavier bike at higher speeds.

My other option would be to get a new bike with disc brakes from the LBS for about $500, but for now I'll scour craigslist until the motor/batteries come in to see if a good deal gets posted. An extra $400+ just for rim brakes seems a bit frivolous.

Also, thanks much for all the recommendations for the 15Ah batteries - much cheaper than the 20Ah ones!

Edit: As for the gas scooter recommendation, I really like the electric only aspect of ebikes and especially the huge geek factor, so I dont mind trading some power and spending a little more for the ebike option.

[cruiserbikeman]

you would be far better off with a used bike like this: http://buffalo.craigslist.org/bik/2996837674.html

Edit: As for the gas scooter recommendation, I really like the electric only aspect of ebikes and especially the huge geek factor, so I dont mind trading some power and spending a little more for the ebike option.

I own both. It just much safer to ride a gas scooter if you're dealing with morning rush hour traffic. There are some links to videos posted by a guy from England (I think) and those drivers almost ran him off the road literally.

[tottgwn]

Thanks again everyone for all the really good advice, especially for the batteries.

I ended up going with the 48V 15Ah LiFePO4 from pingbattery, and the MAC 500W 8T motor (the "speed kit") from cellman, and will watch craigslist for a bike I want while I wait for shipping. Will be sure to post pics and installation experience when everything gets here. At least Diablo III comes out on Tuesday so I'll have something to occupy myself in the meantime!

[jasonf150]

I know you already made your purchase but I was going to suggest a triangle battery from cell man. Great service and I LOVE mine. Shipping is a little high though. I actually bought the Ping and cancelled it a few days later because I wanted a higher C rating.

Also, I went with a Specialized Hardrock 29er from my LBS. I also had a bike I'd been pedalling that I liked a lot and didn't want to convert it (my wife didn't understand that). I have a Crystalyte 3540 kit from ebikes.ca (they relaced into the 29" wheel for me) and the 52v 9.2ah triangle battery from cell man. I get about 34mph top speed and if I keep it around 20 mph, I'll get 20+ miles on a charge. The other day I averaged probably 22-23mph and rode 16 miles and still had room left. Granted I spent about $2,100 total.

All this to say I'm very happy with my setup. A few decisions I'm very glad I made:
1. going with a known brand 29" mountain bike. Rides really nice and at least in my head I have a bettery product with better components. I was considering a Walmart 29" mountain bike and opted to spend the extra $200 to get a "better" one. Plus I get a year's worth of tuneups from the LBS. Hoping they still give me those since I've converted.
2. getting the triangle battery. With the ping I would be forced to put the battery on the rear rack, which is NOT ideal.

[dogman]

48v 15 ah ping does fit into the triangle of many hardtail bikes. But it does not fit into the low top bar frame designs intended for hucking drops, or most FS frames that have larger triangle space.

No doubt he chose the ping for the extra range, which I have to agree can be very nice. Now he'll have to choose a bike with a large enough triangle space to carry it well. If he put's that battery on a rear rack, while using a rear motor, he'll have a rideable bike, but not one that handles really well.

Fortunately, there's zillions of good frames out there that can fit a ping in the triangle. One thing you might want to consider is a step through, then carry the ping on top of the top bar. In the used market, you might even get a girly bike even cheaper, but still have a nice giant or specialized.

[tottgwn]

Yeah, I did want the extra range over the triangle pack, and my plan is to find a hardtail from craigslist and putting on some Schwalbe Big Apple tires for comfort. I'm glad to hear there are a lot of frames that I can put the ping in the triangle.

[wesnewell]

Are rim brakes enough for a 500W Mac motor? I currently have some nice KoolStop pads on my pedal-bike, and they do a great job slowing me down even at >20mph in the rain, but I'm wary of using them on a heavier bike at higher speeds.

With most controllers these days with regen and electronic braking systems I don't think it matters much. My bike has caliper brakes and along with regen braking I can stop plenty fast from high speed with just regen braking. EBS will really take you to a complete stop fast if you want as good of braking as a car with ABS. And my bike is plenty heavy with my 275lbs on it. Of course if you ride sensibly, you shouldn't really need anything more than rim brakes. I've almost gone over the handlebars with just the front v brake from about 10mph.

[tottgwn]

The parts are delivered! Everything is installed except the battery, controller, and torque arm. My original plan was to make a torque plate myself, but last night I took the lazy way out and ordered a torque arm from ebikekit.

As for the battery, the Ping 48V 15Ah just *barely* fits in the frame. My plan is to put in a metal shelf for the battery to sit on, then put a single layer of mousepads between the battery and the frame, but even that will be a tight fit with absolutely no room for extra padding. I'm not planning on going off road or jumping curbs, so I'll only need padding to shelter it from any bumps on the road. Would the mousepad idea be enough vibration/bounce protection for the battery, given front suspension and Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires?