variable regen throttle and controller for ebikes.

[csm]

Are there any controllers that have built in capacity for variable regen switching like the Vectrix Motorcycle? And are there any throttles being made/sold that are similar to the Vectrix to work with this function. Or are there any hacks that have been done or can be done to existing throttles to give them this function?

[edamame]

I test drove a Vectrix VX-1 the other day in Austin, TX and I loved the throttle. The regen function being built into the throttle is really super cool. It was very interesting and effective to use the throttle to stop the bike.

While the Vectrix was a little larger and noisier than what I was looking for, this scooter on Austin Craigslist can be bought for $2500ish which isn't a bad deal. I just want the throttle for my 72V A2B Metro.

[edamame]

One thing the throttle reminded me of was an electric R/C car I have that slows down really fast if you reverse the throttle. Could be a clue or a place to start to figure it out. Vectrix might have some sort of patent protection.

[Jeremy Harris]

As I mentioned in the other thread on this same topic, there are controllers that do exactly this. For example, some in the Kelly range have three regen modes, throttle release regen (which is also a mode that many other ebike controllers can have), switched ebrake regen (which again many ebike controllers have) and variable regen controlled by a 0 to 5 V signal. Some have fitted a left hand throttle and used that to control regen, or you can just adapt a brake lever with a linear hall and amagnet to give variable regen with brake lever motion. AFAIK you can't buy the neat Vectrix throttle, other than maybe as a spare for the scooter.

[John in CR]

Plus you'd need a matching controller to accept was is probably a 0-5V signal resulting in variable regen strength. Some have it, but it goes through the throttle input. I've tried it that way and I found it awkward to turn the throttle in the same direction for increased regen (activated by an ebrake switch and varied with the throttle) as well as to go.

On my cargo bike I have throttle activated regen, which I really like. ie Turn the throttle to go and let off for braking, but the force isn't variable and it only works nicely with a gentle regen force. Once you become accustomed to the speed and distances for when to let off the throttle, then mechanical brakes are just for full stop and emergency braking.

I hope you come up with a solution that can be purchased, because variable regen all done through just throttle input would be the berries.

John

[Jeremy Harris]

As I mentioned above, John, some Kelly controllers have just this, a separate 0 to 5 V input for controlling regen. This can be hooked up to another throttle on the left grip or a brake lever modded to give a linear voltage output.

If the Vectrix throttle has two outputs, one for normal throttle direction and one for reverse, then it may just be a case of buying one as a spare and hooking it to a Kelly.

[MadRhino]

I would find more natural to have variable regen on the brake lever.

[Jeremy Harris]

I would find more natural to have variable regen on the brake lever.

I seem to remember someone here trying that, with a DIY linear Hall brake lever. I can't remember whether it worked or not, but I can't see a reason for it not to. The best way to do it would be to replicate what's inside a Hall throttle, I think. These have two small neo magnets spaced either side of a linear Hall sensor. With the throttle closed one magnet is up against the sensor, as the throttle is twisted that magnet moves away and the other magnet moves closer, causing output voltage of the sensor to increase.

[csm]

some Kelly controllers have just this, a separate 0 to 5 V input for controlling regen. This can be hooked up to another throttle on the left grip or a brake lever modded to give a linear voltage output.

Please post an example model name/number. Link?

I just want to confirm you are speaking about variable progress, multi-step variation regen control?

[csm]

I would find more natural to have variable regen on the brake lever.

I seem to remember someone here trying that, with a DIY linear Hall brake lever.

If you find the applicable threads to this project/discussion, please post links for us to refer to.

[csm]

One thing the throttle reminded me of was an electric R/C car I have that slows down really fast if you reverse the throttle. Could be a clue or a place to start to figure it out.

Which brand/model electric R/C car? Link? Was the reverse a single speed or variable speed reverse?

[Jeremy Harris]

some Kelly controllers have just this, a separate 0 to 5 V input for controlling regen. This can be hooked up to another throttle on the left grip or a brake lever modded to give a linear voltage output.

Please post an example model name/number. Link?

I just want to confirm you are speaking about variable progress, multi-step variation regen control?

Google is simple to use for most people, but to save you typing these difficult words in, let me give you a link:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Kelly+controller

[edamame]

One thing the throttle reminded me of was an electric R/C car I have that slows down really fast if you reverse the throttle. Could be a clue or a place to start to figure it out.

Which brand/model electric R/C car? Link? Was the reverse a single speed or variable speed reverse?

The reverse function of my Losi Mini T is variable speed.

[csm]

The reverse function of my Losi Mini T is variable speed.

Does the remote use a hall effect sensor for the forward and another for the reverse? And then another hall effect senser on the car controller throttle forward and another hall effect sensor for reverse?

[Kingfish]

Reminds me of the accelerator/decelerator on my tractor: Roll forward for motion in that direction, lift foot to freewheel, roll backward to slow or reverse.

I supect that the throttle envisaged in the OP would have two HE (or optical) sensors, minimally 90* apart.

Though not exactly roll-forward/roll-backward, my original controllers from EBikes.ca could be configured with Throttle-Regen if the Ebrake was depressed. But there was a board change after Feb 2010 and the units were no longer available. I miss that feature greatly.

Lamenting, KF

[LegendLength]

I would find more natural to have variable regen on the brake lever.

I seem to remember someone here trying that, with a DIY linear Hall brake lever.

If you find the applicable threads to this project/discussion, please post links for us to refer to.

I asked about it a while ago in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27348 . The consensus seemed to be only Kelly do it. Would be awesome if this feature became mainstream because the current regen is quite harsh.

[amberwolf]

Some searches for info here on ES that might be useful for this thread:
Topics specifically about this:
search.php?keywords=%22variable+regen%22&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sk=t&sd=d&sr=topics&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
Threads mentioning it:
search.php?keywords=%22variable+regen%22&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=msgonly&sk=t&sd=d&sr=topics&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

[Hyena]

You can have "2 speed" regen of sorts using throttle off regen, which gives you light braking when you let go of the throttle and it then brakes even harder when you activate the brake switch. I've noticed the throttle off regen cuts out sooner than the regen button though, so it'll pull you up until about 15km/hr then stop braking, but then if you hit the button it'll continue to brake down to about 5km/hr.

On a related note I've also observed that while the regen braking force is only fairly mild when you throttle off but pulls up noticably harder when you hit the switch, it doesn't actually put any more current back into the battery. So alot of that potentially recoverable energy is wasted - dumped as heat into the windings. I'm sure it's done to protect the battery/BMS as most commercial batteries can't take a 2C charge, but it'd be a nice option to have for those of us with lipo. Though granted, regen is more useful for slowing down than actually recouping power.

Throttle off regen is kinda cool when you get used to it, as long as you put it on a switch so you can disable it when you want to cruise. It's like cruising around in 1st gear on an ICE bike with compression braking.
I find it particularly useful on the street when you're accelerating and braking alot, I cover a great deal of my commute without touching the mechanical brakes. And as John said you anticipate corners coming up and when to back off so it pulls you up in time. To the point where I nearly crashed the other day when I had it disabled and came into a corner fairly hot in my usual manner and let off the throttle, only to keep belting towards it. It's not like cruise control maintain the speed but when you're used to the bike instantly decelerating the second you let off, you can get into strife if you're going fast and it takes you a second to realise and then another second for your brain to over ride and reach for the brakes the 'old fashioned way'

[csm]

You can have "2 speed" regen of sorts using throttle off regen, which gives you light braking when you let go of the throttle and it then brakes even harder when you activate the brake switch. I've noticed the throttle off regen cuts out sooner than the regen button though, so it'll pull you up until about 15km/hr then stop braking, but then if you hit the button it'll continue to brake down to about 5km/hr.

On a related note I've also observed that while the regen braking force is only fairly mild when you throttle off but pulls up noticably harder when you hit the switch, it doesn't actually put any more current back into the battery. So alot of that potentially recoverable energy is wasted - dumped as heat into the windings. I'm sure it's done to protect the battery/BMS as most commercial batteries can't take a 2C charge, but it'd be a nice option to have for those of us with lipo. Though granted, regen is more useful for slowing down than actually recouping power.

Throttle off regen is kinda cool when you get used to it, as long as you put it on a switch so you can disable it when you want to cruise. It's like cruising around in 1st gear on an ICE bike with compression braking.
I find it particularly useful on the street when you're accelerating and braking alot, I cover a great deal of my commute without touching the mechanical brakes. And as John said you anticipate corners coming up and when to back off so it pulls you up in time. To the point where I nearly crashed the other day when I had it disabled and came into a corner fairly hot in my usual manner and let off the throttle, only to keep belting towards it. It's not like cruise control maintain the speed but when you're used to the bike instantly decelerating the second you let off, you can get into strife if you're going fast and it takes you a second to realise and then another second for your brain to over ride and reach for the brakes the 'old fashioned way'

Thanks for the info.
Which motor, controller, and battery you using for your bike?

[Hyena]

Modded 9C with modded 12 fet infineon and 18S lipo - 5kw peak.

[Hillhater]

Which brand/model electric R/C car? Link? Was the reverse a single speed or variable speed reverse?

Most RC car ESC's have variable speed reverse, AND variable braking force ( programable) .

Note however, few car ESC's are useable for Ebike /EV use.

[csm]

Modded 9C with modded 12 fet infineon and 18S lipo - 5kw peak.

"Modded 9C with modded 12 fet infineon"??
I see infineon is probably the controller. what is modded 9C??

"18S lipo - 5kw peak"?
18 cell lithium (LiFePO4??) ? are you running any parallel cells? you using a BMS? I presume 18 cells at 4.19 volts in series for optimum voltage of about 75 volts? 6 amp hour cells?

[shorza]

Modded 9C with modded 12 fet infineon and 18S lipo - 5kw peak.

"Modded 9C with modded 12 fet infineon"??
I see infineon is probably the controller. what is modded 9C??

"18S lipo - 5kw peak"?
18 cell lithium (LiFePO4??) ? are you running any parallel cells? you using a BMS? I presume 18 cells at 4.19 volts in series for optimum voltage of about 75 volts? 6 amp hour cells?

9C = Nine Continent motor
18s lipo = 18 cells series of Lithium Polymer. Probably 2 parallel 5ah giving 10ah @ 72v max.

Doubt he's using a BMS, probably just a Cycle Analyst.

[Jeremy Harris]

csm,

The regen Hyena describes is EXACTLY the same regen as I described in the other thread where you asked this question. It's how the most common ebike controllers (Xiechang, Crystallyte, Lyen, Infineon etc) work.

There is a "sticky" thread here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19446 that tries to collate all the controller information, primarily so the same question doesn't need to be answered time and time again in new threads. I suggest having a read of that thread and its links and gaining a bit of understanding about the basics of available controllers, as then I suspect you may understand better how things normally work.

[Lebowski]

my controller has two analog throttle inputs which can be configured for torque-type throttle and variable strength regen.

Variable strength regen is a no-brainer when you have a vector based controller, you just ask for negative motor current instead of positive....