EBay seller claims to have hub motor w/Nuvinci type gearing

[melodious]

+1 on BS
+1 on overly complicated

By placing a CVT in the e-hub, you just open another can of worms. Where to begin...

[LI-ghtcycle]

I have to say, to have any kind of automatic VT hub that is virtually the same size as a regular hub motor makes me very, very skeptical.

ANYTHING that is going to fit in that small of a package is either going to be extremely limited in gear range (think 2 speed) and I would want to know the basic design, if indeed they have this revolutionary design, especially in such a small package, where is the press release?

Where is the youtube video explaining how this new design works for the layman to understand it's benefits?

I'm crying foul on this on too, unless there is more information made available, I wouldn't believe this design works anyway as advertised.

[Thud]

did any ine get a screenshotof the original listing?
Here is the latest comunicade from the gentlman:

So far we are bombarded by people asking questions about the Nuvinci gears and it created such a stir that we could not even handle the phone calls and we also sold all the motors we had ready. Now we must hurry to make more but it really seems strange that so many people are interested in this ?? I don't get it. Thanks

I thought it strange the good DR. didn't sign this note as Dr ross.....& an e-bay company that only has 4 units(?) for sale.
still doesn't look right to me. Jeremy's math is right.....but no one selling motors gives any real actual #s for us to pick apart. even if it was 5% less efficient than anything else on the market....the gear range would really be a benifit for hill climbing & slow single tracking....

guess we'll keep looking & watch what the feedback reports are looking like.
did any one here grab one just out of curiosity?

[kfong]

his reply back, seems like more BS to me.

I am happy for the excitement but for now we already sold the 120 that we had in stock. We now must get more and it may take a few weeks. We did not know they would sell so quickly. Also, when we call it Nuvinci type gearing its because it has a variable gearing inside the motor that lets it run at one steady RPM while the bike is actually going different speeds. We do not mean that the gear is made by the company Nuvinci ! We only use that word to save us the space it would take to explain all the details about the motor without using that very descriptive word. Thanks !

[Hillhater]

"Dr Ross" cant be too smart or he would know that "CV" is an even shorter , wider understood, description of constant velocity transmission than "Nuvinci" .

[Hillhater]

....did any ine get a screenshotof the original listing??

Amberwolf posted the photos on page 1 here, and this was the text..

New model 8FUN HE motor with expanding Nuvinci type gearing inside the motor case. Climbs hills far better than most other motors and is regulated down from 35 amps to 27 amps for cool running durability. Never runs near its redline so the efficiency is over 92%.

---- Has disc brake mounts ! And comes with 6 speed freewheel OR can be changed to 7, 8 or 9 speed freewheel very easily. 3 year full warranty from USA manufacturer.

-----We will list the 35 amp controller separately that comes with the control panel, wiring harness, throttle, peddle assit conantrol, and sensor disc. If you buy this motor and the controller kit, you will have everything you need to convert your 26" wheel bike.

-----We also recommend using this with the Deep cycle lithium battery by BYI USA. (52 volts 15 ah)

[amberwolf]

So, he posts up something that he WANTS lots of attention for (the "nuvinci gearing") and then is SURPRISED to get lots of questions and interest about it? And supposedly has had enough interest via his "resellers/OEMs" to sell thousands of them already? Yet doesn't have even a couple of hundred of them in stock? No, this is definitely not what he claims it is, nor is he the designer or maker of it. He's just another ebay idiot out for a fast buck, selling existing Chinese stuff as whatever he feels like calling it.

did any ine get a screenshotof the original listing?

I captured and posted the images on a previous page.

The text in the current ended listing is pasted below in three sections (I edited out a lot of ebay general stuff that would be in any ad):
(note that it CLEARLY states that the brand name of this hub is 8FUN USA, which to me indicates it is made by a company of that name (I am unaware of the existence of such a place, and google doesn't find it). It does NOT say that the hub CASING is that brand, but that the whole thing is, so he did not just buy the casing from 8FUN and then use his own guts. If he had, he would have said that in the ebay ad itself, and listed his OWN company name as the brand in the ad. Definitely a scammer.

The link to the ebay-archived original listing is here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... true&rt=nc

48v 700 watt 26" Rear Wheel Electric Bike conversion 35 amp Nuvinci geared Motor
Item Ended
Item condition: New
Ended: May 27, 201215:08:54 PDT
Sold For: US $365.00
Shipping:
$22.00 UPS Ground
Item location: Brighton, Michigan, United States
Seller:
Member id apar9518 ( Feedback Score Of 4 ) |Seller's other items

Description
Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing.Item number: 270980422365
Item specifics
Condition: New
Brand: 8Fun USA
Color: Silver Model: 700 watt High efficiency (HE)
Wattage: 700 watt nom. 1400 Max.

New model 8FUN HE motor with expanding Nuvinci type gearing inside the motor case. Climbs hills far better than most other motors and is regulated down from 35 amps to 27 amps for cool running durability. Never runs near its redline so the efficiency is over 92%.

---- Has disc brake mounts ! And comes with 6 speed freewheel OR can be changed to 7, 8 or 9 speed freewheel very easily. 3 year full warranty from USA manufacturer.

-----We will list the 35 amp controller separately that comes with the control panel, wiring harness, throttle, peddle assit conantrol, and sensor disc. If you buy this motor and the controller kit, you will have everything you need to convert your 26" wheel bike.

-----We also recommend using this with the Deep cycle lithium battery by BYI USA. (52 volts 15 ah)

Note this:

Questions and answers about this item
No questions or answers have been posted about this item.

I dunno about any of you, but I submitted my questions via the Ebay system, so they shoudl show up there, (just like someone else's does in the batteyr listing below). I guess since he never bothered to answer me, it doesn't?

They also now have a battery listing (which wasn't there when I looked at their original two items, and posted the pics from them):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/48Volt-15AH-Lim ... 3f17ef434f

48Volt 15AH Limn2o4 e-bike battery 35amp constant 65 burst USA Made
Item condition: New
Time left: 25d 16h (Jun 23, 201211:32:08 PDT)
US $720.00
Shipping: FREE Standard ShippingSee more services See shipping discounts

Item location: Brighton, Michigan, United States

Ships to: Worldwide
Delivery:
Estimated on or before Thu. Jun. 07 to 85051
help icon for Estimated delivery date - opens a layer
Payments:
PayPal, Bill Me Later | See payment details
Returns:
14 days money back, buyer pays return shipping | Read return policy details

Description
Shipping and payments
Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing.Item number: 270984495951
Item specifics
Condition: New
Brand: BYI Deep Cycle Lith. USA
Model: Deep Cycle 3 Year Full Warranty

The BYI USA Lithium battery can use 95% of stored charge unlike typical Lifopo4 etc..that only use 70% because of safety shut off BMS. The usable energy is equal to a normal 48volt 20 ah Lith. Battery. -----Can easily support up to 1600 watt Motors or 2 X 800 watt motors at the same time. -----Full 3 year warranty from BYI USA Made in USA. Most E-bikes will be able to run 40--50 miles per charge. ------Special case has slide rail lock on & also under seat rail slider plus locking key bolt on locks and full power meter with analyzer built in LED console. -----Comes with HIGH speed 4 amp Charger and CELL balancer BUILT in. ---Weighs just 13 lbs.

Questions from other members : 48Volt 15AH Limn2o4 e-bike battery 35amp constant 65 burst USA Made
Question & Answer Answered On
Q: I live in Jackson Hole, and have no heated storage for a bike. I need a battery that I can disconnect easily and recharge indoors (knowing lithium batteries die when charged below 40 degrees). I'm especially interested in the Deep cycle lithium battery by BYI USA. (52 volts 15 ah). Will it be possible to easily remove it? Is it possible to put the battery below the top tube somehow? If it must be put on a rear rack, do I need a hard tail bike? I don't have a bike yet, can you give me some off the cuff advice? I know front shocks are pretty much mandatory for fast riding. May-28-12
A: The rack that you see in the picture works well with this battery. It slides right out very quickly but it also holds the battery firmly so it won't rattle. This rack can also be ordered on E Bay for $39.00. This rack allows you to also use the key to lock it onto the bike so it will be safe. These deep cycle batteries can be charged at 32 degrees F or above. Slides off easy to carry into the house. Deep cycle lithium can actually be used at 5 degrees F or above (charging is 32 or above). Velocity e bikes makes the whole bike already set up with this motor. If you buy a bike I recommend something with Lock out front shocks and pre load adjustable. Hardtail is much better for E bikes ! Unless your full Suspen. bike has a lockout for the Rear shock ! Get a mountain bike with disc brakes to take advantage of the disc mounts on our motors. If you don't want to go trail riding then put some 1.5" street tires on the mountain bike for speed ! (Mountain bike frames are stronger and better for making an E bike). Thanks for the great question ! Apar

I really like the bolded part. He's just making up whatever answers the questioner needs to feel good about the purchase.

[shock]

.

[liveforphysics]

Just got this response from my last question that was a few days ago.

"I have been a professor of motor and battery technology for 12 years teaching in the Graduate school of Physics. I don't see why it would be so amazing to have CVT mechanism in a motor especially with the fact that E motors run much more efficiently when they stay at their most optimum RPM rate and allow the gearing to change rather than the RPM rate. Very sorry we sold out in just 10 days but we will have more made within 3 weeks or so. Also, the gears work similar to Nuvinci but are not made or authorized by them. I think an actual company owns the rights to that name as a trade mark. Thanks "


I'm thinking 100% scammer.

[amberwolf]

And some fair percentage stupid, with "Also, the gears work similar to Nuvinci but are not made or authorized by them. I think an actual company owns the rights to that name as a trade mark." yet still using the name without permission (couldn't have permission without KNOWING a company owns the rights, and which one); doesn't seem to have any clue about what trade mark rights are. That's ok, Fallbrook will likely take care of that.

That and the typical ebay-scammer-level of advertising copy in the ebay ads themselves, lack of company website or information about the company itself (not even a NAME of the company, just a claim that "his company" made them and sold lots of them to OEMs).

Obviously doesn't know much about the state of motors in the world if he says "I don't see why it would be so amazing to have CVT mechanism in a motor", since there arent' any like that, so his would be so unique that it would sell like hotcakes if it were real (which I don't think it is--if it were, he'd've offered proof by now).



I suppose it just goes to show once again that a degree in physics doesn't make you smart.

[pdf]

Any followup on this? I was not taken up on my offer to visit the company that I made at the time. Back in May, I talked to someone in California (the US) who answered the phone when I called a number I found on their web site. He talked for quite a while; at times it sounded like he knew what he was talking about and at other times not. At one point, he said the motors were basically the same as other geared motors but perhaps with a special lubricant. Then when I stated that the design he had was actually completely different than a fixed gear motor, he seemed surprised that I was surprised that he had developed such a thing and not advertised it widely. He never seemed to give any credit to my assertion that his design was completely different than a typical fixed gear hub motor. He seemed to think all the innovation was in the lubricant and materials used. He gave the impression of being genuinely interested in arranging a visit to their facilities but did not follow up. I told him that if he had what he claimed to have, there would be tremendous interest in it from the electric bike community. He did not appear to grasp the significance so it leads me to doubt the claims.

[amberwolf]

Apparently the seller hasn't even sold anything on the ebay items (or at least has zero buyer feedback, only feeback *as* a buyer, not as a seller), and has not posted any more items.

I don't know if Fallbrook ever took action for this seller using their trademark, but the archived auctions are still there, just "ended".

They never responded to any of my inquiries, and my questions to him via the ebay system never even showed up on his auctions, meaning he never read/approved them. Obviously he doesn't care if he sells anything or not.