EBay seller claims to have hub motor w/Nuvinci type gearing

[nicobie]

someone should report him to ebay for fraud before someone ends up paying a fortune for a $90 bafang motor by accident.

I think so too.

[liveforphysics]

I sent him a message that says I believe he is mistaken in his description, that motor just has fixed ratio planetary gearing inside, and told him if he can pull a side cover and show any type of a CVT inside there, I will buy-it-now immediately.

We will see what he says to that.

[dogman]

Yeah, if it's legit, PM me so I can buy one too before the stampede starts. He just misunderstands what a gearmotor is.

[pdf]

He is clearly full of it. I sent the following message:

"Please confirm the statement that the motor contains a continuously variable Nuvinci drive mechanism built into an 8Fun hub motor. Also, I note that you are in Brighton, MI. I would love to come by and see your motors. I will be in the area next week and could meet you anywhere that would be convenient."

[icecube57]

At this point with all this talk Im willing to jump in and buy it... crack it open and get a prompt paypal refund...
Exercise my duty as an American

[liveforphysics]

This is his response to me:

"We are an American manufacturer based in Michigan and yes we do buy the motor casing from a company called 8FUN that operates all over the globe. This motor is made in Michigan USA and does not function at all like any 8FUN motor. The cost to get the case made in the USA would have been $90 and we get this case from them for $20. But even the casing does not really look like any 8FUN casing because this one is about 20% wider than any case they ever used. On the other side of the motor it says Velocity and I will try to get you a picture of the inside. The bottom line is it does perform better than any other motor on the USA market: 93% efficiency (no heat created) the motor does run at one steady RPM rate regardless of the speed of the bike and on one battery charge it will travel about 50% further per charge than any other 600 watt motor in the USA. We have already sold more than 3000 of these motors to Velocity E bikes and Motobecane e-bikes. Lots of experts already know about this motor because it was at interbike show in Las Vegas. Thanks, Dr. Ross"

[John in CR]

All the doubting Thomas's. It sounds legit to me. My question is when does the 7-10kw version come out?

[ohzee]

damn if this is true how did this get on the scene without us noticing sooner ?
Love to see those pictures of the inside.

[John in CR]

damn if this is true how did this get on the scene without us noticing sooner ?
Love to see those pictures of the inside.

Because it doesn't come under the craptastic names 9C or Xlyte.

[Thud]

reply to my question:

Dear (my e-bay name),
Yes, the whole idea behind this type of variable gearing is that the motor can keep at one steady RPM rate for efficiency while the gearing changes as you accelerate. Right now there is no need to allow the rider to control this because the bike also has its normal bike gears that are controlled by the rider. There are 2 reasons to have these variable gears in the motor 1. 30% better efficiency (range) and 2. Much better hill climbing ability without using much power. Thanks, Dr. Ross- apar9518

definatly is happy to claim bige efficancy #s......I guess I should ask to see the guts?

[Hillhater]

...We have already sold more than 3000 of these motors to Velocity E bikes and Motobecane e-bikes

Odd that nothing shows up on their sites ????

[knoxie]

nah thats a load of poo there is no CVT in there cmon guys, next you will be telling me LHO shot JFK..back and to the left back and to the left!!

Just a bog standard fixed gear hubby my friends, big fat slice of hogwash I am afraid, ebay is full of this type of mis selling, the most blatant one being a guy selling petrol engine kits for bikes under the title electric bike kit? WTF? its misleading and is against ebays policy although they hardly every enforce it.

[WhatcomRider]

The motor and controller are most likely from a Busettii e-bike conversion kit: http://www.busettii.com/e-bike-conversion-kit--52-volt-27-amp-600-watt-motor-and-con5227600.html. But why is apar9518 selling them separately?

This is how Busettii describes the motor in their kit: "Busettii 52 volt 600 –1400 watt 3 phase 35 amp DC motors (runs at 600, 900, 1400 watts auto phase shifting and governed down to 27 amps for cool high efficiency performance."

The Busettii motor is discussed by AW and others in this thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30194.

[Thud]

HIs 4 positive feedback scores are all from sellers.....no buyers.
& oddly he bought standard hub motors & batteries? that sounds like a fishy way to look better than zero feedback.....

it is still not adding up....the nuvinci's lack of efficancy alone quashes his claims.....unless he has safe graphing it for him.

I asked for photo's & a website....Miles would already have the Pattent info if this was legit.

But if its true...its another techno win for michigan (CNC controlls & all sorts of really cool schtuffs were concieved & built in Michigan 1st)

[cal3thousand]

I would think that unit to be massive to house all these goody parts. Also, we would have heard of the hype before this hit eBay.

[Hillhater]

At this point with all this talk Im willing to jump in and buy it... crack it open and get a prompt paypal refund...
Exercise my duty as an American

Ah, !.. A brave volunteer. .. This is the best way to resolve the situation.
... Good man icecube57.

[WhatcomRider]

Here is a Brighton MI dealer of Velocity ebikes with the supposed new 8FUN CVP motor: http://hipowerbikes.com/
The $2,090 Raptor model appears to be based on a Huffy DS mountain bike that Walmart sells for $129.

[amberwolf]

I would question the business sense of anyone trying to sell a new technology on ebay under a "silly" username of numbers/letters, rather than a "business-sounding" username that would get them more instant respect simply because it sounds legitimate, instead of like the zillion hokey fly-by-night operations with name like lksjdf19093.

I would also question why they would not have more details about their motor and controller/etc. on the ebay auction itself, with some of the information they indignantly spat in response to questions from members here. It would make much more business sense to have descriptive information, especially things about them designing it themselves, the years of research going into it's development, how long they've been in the motor field, major brand names that use their motors, etc. If they won't put that on their auction page, that's pretty silly to me. It puts them back in the class of suspecting them to be "lksjdf19093" types, becuase their auctions look the same.

Sure, there are legitimate businesses that don't have any marketing and/or business sense and don't bother with stuff like that...but they'd prboably be more successful if they marketed themselves better.






Nuvinci responded to my email:

Fallbrook does not have any business involvement with the product shown on the eBay listing you forwarded. We will investigate the use of our NuVinci trademark and appreciate your bringing this matter to our attention.

So I guess not only does it definitely not have an actual NuVinci CVT, but the guy hasn't bothered to ask if he can use their name, either.

FWIW, some posts here in the thread seem to assume it does have an actual NuVinci CVT, but it doesn't actually say that on the auction from what I read--it just says it's like a NuVinci (probably trying to make the CVT comparison without getting technical?).



Anyhow, it's possible the things could be legit, but I would be put off enough by presentation, lack of data, and their attitude in responses to questions that I don't believe it is what it says it is.

[shock]

Interesting, and only a skip, hop and a jump from my house. Seller offers 14 day return policy. I know Michigan has been ramping up on manufacturing lately and I'm sure this type of design is possible. My guess is it would be some sort of automatic toroidal cvt design. Hrm, only if I hadn't just dumped 3 grand on a boat...

[SamTexas]

"We are an American manufacturer based in Michigan and yes we do buy the motor casing from a company called 8FUN that operates all over the globe. This motor is made in Michigan USA and does not function at all like any 8FUN motor. The cost to get the case made in the USA would have been $90 and we get this case from them for $20. But even the casing does not really look like any 8FUN casing because this one is about 20% wider than any case they ever used. On the other side of the motor it says Velocity and I will try to get you a picture of the inside. The bottom line is it does perform better than any other motor on the USA market: 93% efficiency (no heat created) the motor does run at one steady RPM rate regardless of the speed of the bike and on one battery charge it will travel about 50% further per charge than any other 600 watt motor in the USA. We have already sold more than 3000 of these motors to Velocity E bikes and Motobecane e-bikes. Lots of experts already know about this motor because it was at interbike show in Las Vegas. Thanks, Dr. Ross"

Not much of an explanation to me. The bold underlined portion is either apples to oranges comparison or pure BS, my take is the latter.

If he were able to sell 3,000 unit to 2 major ebike players, why would he want peddle his stuff on Ebay, one unit at a time? This product (if true) is a major advance in hub motors, wouldn't you expect to see at the very least a website showcasing its features and benefits?

[Hillhater]

... Hrm, only if I hadn't just dumped 3 grand on a boat...

Ahhh come on shock,... $400 wont even fill the tank once on that boat, ..and as you say its 14 days return, on your doorstep. !
..Go for it ! ..take one for the team...

[pdf]

Interesting, and only a skip, hop and a jump from my house. Seller offers 14 day return policy. I know Michigan has been ramping up on manufacturing lately and I'm sure this type of design is possible. My guess is it would be some sort of automatic toroidal cvt design. Hrm, only if I hadn't just dumped 3 grand on a boat...

Just call the guy, arrange to drive over, look at the inside, and take a test drive. If it is legit, they'd probably be very happy to get the free advertising. There is a phone number on the web site under the "Contact Us" link. Sounds improbable that it exists and no one much knows about it, but what the heck do I know?

[ebent]

I'm hopeful but suspicious. They must be watching and reading this thread. If they convince us we will buy a lot of them. If this was my legitamate business I would provide pictures and undisputable evidence immediatly. Otherwise is he trying to scam the brain trust of ES? Bold and brash!

If this proves real I'll buy one. If not I still feel this is possible and the day will come. I'm watching this thread for evidence.
I appreciate all the intelligent comments.

[Ypedal]

absolute 100% certified bullshit...

[1000w]

1+
Total bullshit.
Lets take him down team! He's messin with the wrong crew now.