My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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ddk
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Nov 17, 2016 5:53 am

IF...
if LiCo batteries are as dangerous as some forum members think, why isn't the world ablaze from all the millions of improperly disposed of cells?

inquiring minds and all :pancake:
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by amberwolf » Nov 17, 2016 2:53 pm

Maybe it is, and tha'ts why it's so hot here most of the year? ;)

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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Nov 22, 2016 3:00 pm

pedalist.jpg
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Like I wrote earlier, one can purchase trikes similar to what I've built.

MPDPM (minus to pope mobile and the disco parts) are offered as a enclosed tadpole e-trike with, what appears to be, a BBS02, 8S IGH and a pretty big battery by these folks for a seemingly good price of $4,999.(99)
Consider that I have close to $7K invested in MPDPM I'd say that is a good price.
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where I ride roads includes solar hazards not easily overcome except by carrying enough battery to conquer said hazards.
wild apples.jpg
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You already fail if you think you can't.
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Dec 04, 2016 5:09 pm

I've basically had -0- issues with multistar batteries, which is good because they do cost a chunk of change for the high-capacity types.

If I'm charging with 'smart' chargers (iCharger, Thundar and the like) I've gotten to the point of not watching the paint dry because frankly, the smart chargers are better at protecting the battery than any BMS.
I've had smart chargers fail but they always just stop the charge cycle.
Perhaps there are other cheaper smart chargers that don't do this but I don't own those so I'm clueless.

Anyway, the only time I watch the batteries charge is when I'm 'bulk' charging, but even then I have the maximum voltage of the bulk charger set to less than a 100% charge (less than 4.2V per cell) and I always check the battery balance before/after charging.
(of course *knocks on wood*)
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...mars attacks!
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LOL, farther north than Omaha, Ric
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:mrgreen:
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by The fingers » Dec 04, 2016 7:05 pm

Even here at 33.75N we used to have to cover our lemon bush with a sheet at night to protect it from frost. :wink:
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Dec 08, 2016 8:00 pm

The fingers wrote:Even here at 33.75N we used to have to cover our lemon bush with a sheet at night to protect it from frost. :wink:
location location location...
I live in an area by the ocean that rarely dips into the 30'sF.

-That said, just the other night temps hovered around 34F for about 6 hours. Scary :shock:

And what's a lemon "bush"?
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by The fingers » Dec 09, 2016 1:00 am

ddk wrote:And what's a lemon "bush"?
http://edenmakersblog.com/?p=164#sthash.tKPQ3kLe.dpbs
Grandma's lemon meringue pie was the best. Her secret, (also applies to her applesuace recipe), was to use 1/2 the sugar called for. Believe you me, it didn't taste like cornstarch! :oops:
Black Schwinn High Sierra
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Dec 19, 2016 12:11 am

The fingers wrote:
ddk wrote:And what's a lemon "bush"?
http://edenmakersblog.com/?p=164#sthash.tKPQ3kLe.dpbs
Grandma's lemon meringue pie was the best. ...
Ah, probably the plant a friend of my moms' used over trellises covering her entryway stairs in the hills of Sonoma (with cascading waterway). Quite striking, with the lemons hanging and all.
-Always semi-wondered how she got lemon trees to 'vine'. (never asked)
***************************************************************
One month later and I recharged battery packs today, having used about 1/2 the watt capacity in both packs.
I'm currently using a 15Ah 7S battery for the rear motor, which is rarely used, but the pack also powers the trikes' running lights, turn signals and the fan on the controller. 32Ah 12S for the front motor, which is the sole current sink.

I rarely use a 15S battery for the front motor when traveling through the downtown area.
I haven't recharged the 15S battery at all this year and its' meter still shows almost 61V! (indicates just how rarely I cross the downtown area)
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Dec 20, 2016 7:26 am

derp
...that's two sets of battery packs per month. :pancake:
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Dec 24, 2016 4:33 pm

speaking of lemons... this caught my eye
four leafs, seven lemons, 12" tall
Improved Meyers Lemon.jpg
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ol' dog learned new things
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taken from the seat of my e-trike
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Dec 29, 2016 7:19 pm

so, earlier in this thread someone asked if I post processed pictures and I said I usually didn't.

I lied!

I forgot that when I resize an image from 16 gazillion pixels to usable forum sizes using Irfanview, I have the 'sharpen image' menu item checked
IMG_0069.jpg
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I also rarely use the paint option in Irfanview (under the 'edit' menu) to add text and other stuffs
Did I mention I've used Irfanview (which I like to use for image manipulation) since the bygone days of Win 98?

Now I has. :pancake:
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Jan 02, 2017 1:13 pm

...did I say it never gets cold here?
never say never
-or-
There are no 'absolutes'
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I think it's hilarious when it's quite obvious someone slept through all their science and math courses.
But I has an odd smell of humours

opps = double oops
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by docnjoj » Jan 03, 2017 5:54 pm

I remember that white stuff. Here we get golf balls the size of hail. It snowed twice here in the last 30 years.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Jan 04, 2017 2:23 pm

docnjoj wrote:I remember that white stuff. Here we get golf balls the size of hail. It snowed twice here in the last 30 years.
otherDoc
I remember back in '93 frozen baseballs fell from the sky destroying my homes' roof.
Then I got to learn Just How Bad my insurance was about to be, the particular insurance company lost a class-action suit about it's activities well after the time I both no longer owned the house or held all the receipts for the repairs. (this is one of the reasons court cases are dragged on for years and years)
(and years)

Besides that I noticed your multistars failed?

What gives? (mine are just over a year old)
inquisitive minds et al.
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by docnjoj » Jan 04, 2017 5:21 pm

I killed my multistars. Dead! I forgot to charge them once and rode what I thought would be 20 miles like we always do. Uh Uh! made 16 miles to their death and got towed home by my wife. We carry a bungee tow rope for emergencies. They went to zero volts! I charged them but they were never the same and when we had not ridden for a few weeks in the summer I checked them and found several cells at zero. I immediately put them outside in a pail or salt water from the pool and they are still sitting there today. When spring comes I'll put them in the garbage.

A BMS would have saved them, maybe.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Jan 05, 2017 2:44 pm

docnjoj wrote:I killed my multistars. Dead! I forgot to charge them once and rode what I thought would be 20 miles like we always do. Uh Uh! made 16 miles to their death and got towed home by my wife. We carry a bungee tow rope for emergencies. They went to zero volts! I charged them but they were never the same and when we had not ridden for a few weeks in the summer I checked them and found several cells at zero. I immediately put them outside in a pail or salt water from the pool and they are still sitting there today. When spring comes I'll put them in the garbage.

A BMS would have saved them, maybe.
otherDoc
oh, ouch!

I have one pack-o-stars (4 each 16Ah 6s) i accidentally to slightly below 2V.

To recover from that type of LiPo catastrophe one must charge the cells with a relatively weak current, until the cells have reached a mid-charge... say about 3.8V per cell. Only then should you resume charging at a higher rate... I also usually wait an hour or 12 before resuming.

This Time* I opted to bulk charge the cells at a 1/20C rate until the cells reached 3.85V.
Of Course I Monitored Each Cell. They stayed perfectly in balance with their respective IR being 'close enough'
Then I finished charging at a 1/3C rate later.

That was several months ago and that pack continues to resemble it's beathern-like packs in operation. Although I suspect I might have lowered this pack-in-discussion's lifespan.


I'm pretty sure I've written about this procedure several times on ES in the last 5 years or so, but I guess it needs repeating every so often and me, being redundant in my Redundancy, am tending towards trending redundant about such stuffings.

* the term 'This Time' indicates over-discharging battery packs may or may'nt has been done by my personal (or lack of personal) actions at numerous previous, or not so numerous occasions
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by docnjoj » Jan 10, 2017 4:39 pm

I actually did something like that charging them at about1amp till around 3.7 volts and then going to 5 amps which is still way below 1C. I really screwed those cells though and they did last a while but never were as good as originally powered.

I keep looking for the 16AH or possibly 10AH and get 4 of them but I am in no rush. The Luna 36 volt pack I bought works fine.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by amberwolf » Jan 11, 2017 2:02 am

I had a 3s pack of EIG NMC cells drained to zero when someone played wiht my lighting switches on CrazyBIke2 a few years ago, and was able to revive them and they operated normally for me since then, although I never really use them above maybe 0.5c (about a tenth of their capabilities), as the lighting pack.

Left all the lights on (including car headlight) on the trike one night, I also killed one cell in a 4s pack of those, actually reversing it (guess it had less charge than the other three), and THAT puffed it up. :( The other three are still ok...

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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Jan 12, 2017 9:04 am

docnjoj wrote:I actually did something like that charging them at about1amp till around 3.7 volts and then going to 5 amps which is still way below 1C. I really screwed those cells though and they did last a while but never were as good as originally powered.

I keep looking for the 16AH or possibly 10AH and get 4 of them but I am in no rush. The Luna 36 volt pack I bought works fine.
otherDoc
I guess I've never discharged any pack with a heavy current load. I've only managed to leave the motor controllers turned on for a day or so, or in the case of the MT's 32Ah pack, a week or so.
This is because I rarely use the MT trike much because a windshield is a luxury item I've come to love.
Something about being warm and comfy. ...and I left the power switch "on" on the MT trikes' front motor for over a week before I caught the discrepancy.

Anyway I've never had the occasion to put to the test what happens when a Lithium battery is over-discharged with a load approaching or exceeding 1C.

I saw about a week ago 16Ah 6S multistars were in stock and priced at 71.something dollars but that was then :) I do believe I get more than twice the range from one 32Ah multistar pack vs two 20Ah packs made from 5Ah packs. I kinda know why but hesitate to type that much or verify the data.
amberwolf wrote:I had a 3s pack of EIG NMC cells drained to zero when someone played wiht my lighting switches on CrazyBIke2 a few years ago, and was able to revive them and they operated normally for me since then, although I never really use them above maybe 0.5c (about a tenth of their capabilities), as the lighting pack.

Left all the lights on (including car headlight) on the trike one night, I also killed one cell in a 4s pack of those, actually reversing it (guess it had less charge than the other three), and THAT puffed it up. :( The other three are still ok...
I use 4S packs for lighting now but I use 5 5Ah packs in parallel for a solid 6 hours of continuous operation if all the lights are lit and the cameras/monitors powered up. (everything's on separate switches)
Since most of my night or 'dangerous conditions' riding involves just to the store and back I tended to recharge the lighting pack(s) about twice a year (built two lighting packs thinking I'd ride more often in 'those' conditions since I could but I don't)
I've yet to reverse a battery's polarity ((either on purpose or accidentally) but as I mentioned earlier I can "never say never" because anythings probable.
I have seen battery chemistry damaged that way (reversed polarity) but I've yet to have one do it under my observation.

I might note that the very first packs I accidentallied below 2V with a less-than-1C load were recovered using the previously discussed methods then the cells continued their Life As Motor Power Cells for another 4.5 years.

I devised this method a while ago by observing how the cells reacted to stimulation (sounds sexual) and while I'm not a battery engineer, I designed many a device that had to be battery-powered for portable operation, so I basically had to learn the ins/outs of primary and secondary battery chemistries available at that time.
I apply this general knowledge of 'what to expect' with lithium chemistry and have yet to be disappointed while also noting lithium's many differences. Different yet similar. Similar yet different.
...did I mention NiCd sux?
but
So far so gud...
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Jan 15, 2017 4:13 pm

...back to whatever!
I had to ride across town the other day so the 15S battery got used.
It's somewhat amusing to me that this tiny MXUS geared-hub motor can roll the quarter-ton MPDPM along at 25mph. It does well in it's 16" wheel, grasshopper.

************************************************************
Ol' shakey (me) managed to drop a few drops of liquid on my abodes' floor.
Before I got a round tuit, industrious tiny ants of the odorous type were busy helping me clean the floor.
ants in pants.jpg
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Lucky for the ants as they got fed.
Lucky for me I'd spilled liquid ant bait.

I think I mentioned I saw colonies of Argentina ants about. Slightly larger than an odorous ant yet highly aggressive this ant is. In fact, other than the smaller odorous ants, most other species of larger ants have disappeared in my yard and where I formerly observed a half-dozen or so different ant species, now I only see the two.
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Jan 18, 2017 6:32 am

A follow up on using automotive switches for battery packs.

I've been using 12V 30A-rated switches in all my battery packs and they work fine for the application...
up to and including a 13S pack. After 5 years of operation these switches continue to do the job of turning the battery packs completely off.

With 14S packs some switches work well, some weld after a few cycles.
With 15S all automotive switches I've used have welded after one or a few cycles.
The Speakon 4L connectors I use as power connectors continue to give good service with 14S and 15S packs so I still have a way to switch the battery pack off. Lol- disconnecting the pack

Eventually I'll acquire either service-rated circuit breakers or switches that will operate in a 60V environment.
new style switches.jpg
these have welded after a few cycles with both 14S and 15S packs
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ch sp locking.jpg
different styles of the same connector
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I really like using the speakon connector as a power connector (rated 1000W) All the connector surfaces are buried in plastic shrouds making it almost impossible* to accidentally contact power leads.


*If you worked really really hard at it I'm don't doubt you could successfully do this, but why?
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by amberwolf » Jan 18, 2017 12:28 pm

FWIW, the "24v" dc breaker I've been using on CrazyBike2 for several years as a main power switch has worked fine at 14s, and has been able to disconnect under load when popping as a breaker the couple of times it's had to. I think mine came from a powered wheelchair application, IIRC, though I'd have to look thru the CB2 thread for pics of it cuz I can't read the markings on it anymore.

Also, it's actually been exposed to the weather the whole time, and still not had problems, otehr than popping as a breaker once in rain (which might've been from water ingress into it, or into a controller or something else; I suspect it was battery-to-frameground conduction thru the wiring from water because after waiting a moment past the heavy rain it was resettable).

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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Jan 20, 2017 8:36 pm

amberwolf wrote:FWIW, the "24v" dc breaker I've been using on CrazyBike2 for several years as a main power switch h...
I have several styles of DC breakers, all of which are Way Too Big for the application.
Pondering on I remembered most aviation circuit breakers being small enough to fit the available space.
(did I mention that, while I've not been everywhere (notably the Antarctic) I have Done Everything (almost) including flying and repairing Things That Do the Flying. (if'n they used avionics stuffs)

Unfortunately any device that includes the keywords medical, military or aviation (or all three) in it's description comes with a minimum 800% markup per keyword over devices that lack said keywords!
(this is either an exaggeration or an understatement to reality... or all three)

B-but I managed to find a sub miniature Klixon aviation CB rated at 35A 28VDC usable up to 75VDC non-derated for $5 (used).
-Otherwise they list for $$$.$$
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Jan 21, 2017 5:26 pm

kinda stormy... windy
waves of 10m to 20m
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clogging forum spaces with unnecessary photos wordwide
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Re: My solar-assisted custom tricycle FOLLIES

Post by ddk » Jan 26, 2017 10:25 pm

Seems I'm killing the front motor on my prefered ride, MPDPM enclosed trike.
Might it be because I transgressed from using 10S or 14S battery packs to 12S or 15S packs?
Probably... since I went from regularly abusing (driving) the tiny geared MUXUS (MXUS?) from 1000-1400W to 1200-1500W

I abused other motors of the same ilk on my other (much lighter) trike destroying the motors @ 30k to 40k KM but that was at a time I was seriously riding long distances averaging about 1000km per week (dry seasons, 1/2 that during wet seasons which were suffering drought)

lil' history bout 'me' and bikes, trikes (1956-2009) and e-bikes (2006-2009) and e-trikes (2011-"Infinity and Beyond!")

2004- major infraction of the 'personal health' kind... reconditioning with stationary bikes up to three hours daily, then back to the bikes! (i lieks to go places whilst 'reconditioning')
2008- found I could no longer mount a 'manly' bike- purchased step-thru bike
2009- could no longer mount the step-thru bike because...
2010- ...barely alive
2011- decided to get aggressive about my (lack of) conditioning and bought first (e)trike -took me 6 weeks to assemble trike because... but eventual success!
...also started thinking/building a trike that suited my needs (better-er)
-conditioning success! started thinking long(er) distance trike cruises (away from home). (no longer tied to home-only recharging so Designed/Built(ing) solar trike
When Suddenly- Crushed by SUV- didn't realize the amount of damage I actually sustained (old guy who thinks he's still 25) so I only had the insurance co. replace trike (soon to be mod-ed as MPPM*)
2012-2013 knees gone... doing 'tricks' (tricky knees) mod-ed trike to drive legs until I could personally drive legs meself. Solar project completely abandoned. Acquire workshop and added solar 'porch' Using Materials from abandoned solar trike project. MPPM completed.
2014 unsuccessful 'reconditioning' Abandone All Hope but life goes on anyway. (because e-trikes)
2015 ditto, 2016 ditto (moar lights on MPPM making it MPDPM**), 2017 probably ditto... "and beyond!"

... did I mention the years pass so quickly I gets cornfused bout where and when so's I do this to remind me about where and when and say "Hi!" "still kicking (nothing)"


TL;DR ...formerly rode bikes 1000km a week, now 20km a week; And I'm slow-w-ly killing front motor with moar pow-wa. Will need motor replacement eventually and am thinking about Lite (because old, slow) DD for regen brakes (because old, slow) because also lazy. Hate adjusting brakes ever few weeks (or months, or years... they go by so fast!)

*MPPM = "My Personal Pope Mobile"
**MPDPM = "My Personal -Disco- Pope Mobile" attributed to forum member "The fingers"
"How can we play Hot Wheels without lighter fluid? " -Serge

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