Best production offroad ebike?

[Punx0r]

This is just mental masturbation, but I want to show a keen cycling friend what an ebike is capable of.

So, in terms of something you can realistically go out and buy, what is the most capable, most powerful production off-road ebike? Something definitely bicycle based, not and an ICE trials bike with an electric motor, but something like a pedal trials bike.

Does such a thing exist? If not, how about a very rugged, jumpable mountain bike?

Any ideas?

[Drunkskunk]

Stealth Bomber Ebike

http://www.stealthelectricbikesusa.com/bomber.html

[Timma2500]

Yep, Stealth Bomber for sure.

For the build it yourself crowd, the Phasor frames seem to be the best buyable platform to start with.


Paul

[Phoebus]

For production, I'd put the Ego Kit ahead of Stealth. In terms of pure performance they do not appear to be even remotely close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8R-AK1qAmA

[airtime]

How much are the EGO kits?

The bomber is around $10000au.

[mvly]

How much are the EGO kits?

You can get the ego from ebikessf for $3K plus $300 for installation on most downhill bike. I think this includes everything including the 48V13Ah battery. It won't get you far, but it should be enough for the typical off road biking trip.

http://www.ebikessf.com/egokit

The bomber is faster on-road than the ego. Both is ridiculously expensive! But who said the sport is cheap.

---Edit to make response clear

[Drunkskunk]

OP was asking for Production bikes, not kits. The ego is a kit. Wrong catagory.

[Phoebus]

Ehhh.......... I don't know..... Sure, it's not a frame, but it's not exactly a jerry-rigged kit. It is "mass produced" - at least relative to the ebike industry....

It's also like five hundred zillion times better than anything else out there when it comes to off road riding. It's also a bit cheaper than the bomber (spend 6k on a great DH rig, 3k on the kit), and wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy~~~~~~~~ cheaper than Optibike.

Will 48v 13ah will get you further on a mid drive than it would on most hub motors? Am curious.

The big downside with the Ego kit is noise. But that has nothing to do with performance. Were it quiet, I'd have bought an Ego day one.

[ecowheelz]

Not sure if something needs to be the "most powerful" to be considered the "best". But the NEO Emotion Xtrem (from BH) has won numerous awards in Europe for it's quality and design and will be available in the U.S. in a few weeks.



These bikes are just arriving now and we'll have them at our shop soon. Very excited about these bikes! With similar specs to the Stromer Elite, the NEO Emotion e-bikes will be over $1000 less (retailing at $2699). They include: integrated (and removable) 36V Li-Ion battery, 350W rear geared hub motor, removable LCD display, regenerative braking, torque-driven PAS, hydrolic disc brakes, etc. Not really an off-road "dirt bike" like the Stealth Bomber, this is a high-quality (and intuitive) electric bicycle designed to integrate seemlessly with your pedaling. The U.S. version is also supposed to have a throttle -- but we're still waiting for the exact details...

Here's a video overview by Pete at ElectricBikeReport.com



Anyways... not sure if you guys will consider this the "best", but it will definitely be one of the best e-bikes that we carry

[Punx0r]

It's interesting to see one option of a complete bike, and another of a kit. I guess it makes sense if you already have a fancy bike.

I was surprised the Ego kit was "only" 2400W peak, but if it's working through the gears then I guess it'll climb almost anything.

That's really what I was thinking of with this thread - bikes that can hop on/off rocks, climb slopes you can't walk up etc.

Does anyone know of some good videos of the Bomber in action? The ones on the manufacturer's website are a little tame

BTW, what hub motor does it use?

[airtime]

I think it uses a 1504 crystallite. But I could be wrong.

[heathyoung]

Bomber uses xtalyte HT from memory.

Ego kits - interesting, looks like a headway motor (with different freewheel), kelly controller from the error codes, and an ORO throttle.

Nice mounting hardware, price is... hmmm.

[airtime]

What's the website for the headway motor.

[Drunkskunk]

Bomber uses the Crystalyte 5405.

[Phoebus]

Ego kits - interesting, looks like a headway motor (with different freewheel), kelly controller from the error codes, and an ORO throttle.

Nice mounting hardware, price is... hmmm.

Ego kit comes with a $1k NMC battery.

Of course, the kit isn't for everyone. But for those looking for the best performance off road, it's far better than the competing, more expensive options.

Now about that noise... : (

[Cowardlyduck]

I'd say the Stealth Fighter is what your after. I have one. I reckon it's the best balance of weight/speed/range/price available. I only paid $6500AU for it.

http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com.au/fighter.html



Check the epic thread still going since Dec 2010 on both Stealth's here.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23996

Cheers

[mvly]

Ego kits - interesting, looks like a headway motor (with different freewheel), kelly controller from the error codes, and an ORO throttle.

Nice mounting hardware, price is... hmmm.

Ego kit comes with a $1k NMC battery.

Of course, the kit isn't for everyone. But for those looking for the best performance off road, it's far better than the competing, more expensive options.

Now about that noise... : (

Only way I can think of getting rid of the noise is belt drive?

[Timma2500]

Only way I can think of getting rid of the noise is belt drive?

The noise in the EGO / Cyclone motors comes from the planetary gearbox attached to the motor itself, you can't get around it...

Belt drives aren't totally silent either, my Norco's 15mm HTD belt sounded like an old skool supercharger

Having had a 2000w peak cyclone setup and now a Clyte HT hub running 5500w peaks, i can say the only time i truly miss the Cyclone is when i see a massively steep dirt track hill i'd like to climb, the type of hill that is a slow crawl up in 1st gear and a balance of controlling wheel spin vs looping out the front end. The Cyclones will climb grades like that with ease if you gear them correctly. Taking a HT up a climb like that would kill the controller very quickly indeed....

Speed wise the Cyclone (12s lipo) topped out at about 60kph in 9th gear and the HT (20s lipo) about 58kph both on flat ground (both 26" rims). Both will heat up after several kms with too much WOT. Both love to pop wheelies
The HT is damn quiet and i like that, the Cyclone is like a coffee grinder on steriods


Paul

[dogman]

Well, back to discussing complete production bikes, there is no way a bike with only front shocks could possibly be the "best" for offroad. Best you offer at most.

My vote would still be the bomber for most pure power + full suspension. But just saying "best" is still waaaaay to vague a definition of what kind of performance is desired to be sure. I have no doubt whatsoever that some of the newer bb drive bikes out there have vastly superior handling qualities than the bomber. But at the price of less power to get that lighter weight and better rear suspension mechanisims.

It just depends on what you want the bike to do best, up the hill or back down it. What you need will determine which is best for you. Maybe you need to power up a steep hill, or maybe you need less power to go up the hill the low slope route followed by hucking off the big drop on the other side.

[ecowheelz]

Well, back to discussing complete production bikes, there is no way a bike with only front shocks could possibly be the "best" for offroad. Best you offer at most.

Since when does the "best" offroad bike need to have rear suspension? I guess all those professional mountain bike racers who choose hardtails are choosing sub-standard bikes? Many people prefer hardtails. It really depends on how you ride. If you don't plan on standing and getting off the seat, then full-suspension is definitely better. It also depends heavily on the type of terrain. "Offroad" terrain can be quite different depending on your location...

We have full-suspension mountain bikes... but the NEO Emotion Xtrem I mentioned earlier is much higher-quality and one of the better pre-built bikes on the market...

[Timma2500]

Since when does the "best" offroad bike need to have rear suspension?

When riding really rough dirt tracks at decent speeds (say 50+kph), rear suspension is a must have, it helps keep a heavy hub motor wheel in one piece when doing these sort of rides by absorbing some of the force exerted on the wheel by harsh high speed impacts. The same wheel combo on a hardtail would fail quite quickly in comparison.

I guess all those professional mountain bike racers who choose hardtails are choosing sub-standard bikes?

The only Pro mountain bikers who still use a hardtail are weight weeny XC racers who count every gram / ounce of weight
Infact most XC racers now use short travel (about 3") light weight full suspension bikes and Pro DH racers don't even consider using a hardtail...

However

We have full-suspension mountain bikes... but the NEO Emotion Xtrem I mentioned earlier is much higher-quality and one of the better pre-built bikes on the market...

For smoother trails / bikepaths the Neo would be a good choice, looks like a nice rig and quite stealthy too

Paul

Edited typoooo

[spinningmagnets]

When comparing off-road bikes, they can quickly get very expensive. A hardtail DH bike is sometimes defended as a choice because its cheaper/lighter/isn't "springy" when pedaling uphill (many DH runs are done while the rider stays on his feet, will the OP do this?). On the last point there are rear shocks that can be temporarily locked-out for a full-sus bike that is being pedaled uphill, then unlocked for the fast downhill run.

Ask a guy with a hardtail DH bike...what bike would he choose if it was a no-strings-attached gift, and price was no object? I suspect a few of them would like to have a full-suspension frame, but...each of us must choose what our preferences are after comparing the benefits/drawbacks and the price. I will add that if you do choose a hardtail, I highly recommend a $130 Thudbuster seat-post.

Hot rodding the Stealth Bomber/Fighter
http://www.electricbike.com/stealth-hot-rod/

Review of Fighter/Bomber by John "Kepler"
http://www.electricbike.com/stealth-fighter/
http://www.electricbike.com/stealth-bomber-review/

[cal3thousand]

I know it doesn't fit your exact description since it is in production, but it will show your friend what an e-bike is capable of: the Audi e-bike.


There are some pretty impressive test videos showing it's agility and control.

[ecowheelz]

For the record, downhill terrain / DH mountain bikes were never mentioned in the original post. I think the term used was "best production off-road e-bike". Felt like a hardtail could fit into this category. Obviously, extremely rugged terrain may require rear-suspension... it just really depends on the rider and how rugged it is. Everyone has a preference

[parajared]

I heard zero motorbikes are pretty good, but not a bicycle with peddles. Doctorbass has one, you could IM him.
Dual suspension is better: that's a no brainer

Here's my thoughts on electric off-road:
A stock gasoline xr400 is a pretty good all around trail bike. It weighs 238lbs and has a 28hp engine in it yeilding a power to weight ratio of 8.5. To have the same power to weight in a 100lb bicycle you would need a 11hp engine. In otherwords an electric motor capable of handling 8500watts, (or 6500watts in a unrealisticly light 75lb bike).

Your 2000watt "off road bike" won't come close to doing anything like a regular internal combustion off road.