Scott Spark comp 29er + crystalyte HS3540

[pendragon8000]

I am about to build my first EV after decades of dreaming about it. My old friend Sam aka Rarefaction and I were going to build a starter motor go-kart when we were 12 y.o., but we didnt have the skills back then to put it all together. After a few years of discussion with him and considering possibilites, also talking to my friend Ryan aka Scope about ideas from his motorcycle raceing and mechanics experiance, I decided to go with the high powered rear hub motor.

Unsprung weight is an obvious concern, but the crystalyte seems to handle this quite well.

I chose the scott spark because it was :
- under $2k (new)
- large space in frame for batteries and controller
- 29 inch rims
- dual suspension
- built strong for XC / light DH

here is a review with pic and specs
http://www.mtbr.com/cat/bikes/29er-full ... 87crx.aspx

I am going to use 2 of 3x2w led down light in a small case for head light, and 2 automotive 12v red led 'bulbs' for rear.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZD0353
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZD0365

I am considering putting a small car horn in the battery box, and powering horn and lights with a 3s lipo instead of using a dc - dc converter (simalar price, more range and will work when main pack is low). I was going to use aluminium for the case but after falling off my bike jumping a table top, i considered the weight and sharp edge could open me up. so i was looking at rectangular pvc, should be easy to work with and hopefully come up nice with a satin charcol grey paint.

how easy it can happen... (skip to 1:30)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWWko548Qfo

A nice pdf of the crystalyte hs/ht35
http://www.crystalyte.com/Crystalyte%20 ... rawing.pdf

as you can see there is 30mm of axle for dropout,torque arm and nut. therefore 2 x 10mm torque arms should fit nicely between the dropout and nut. I intend on making theese from 10mm generic steel stock. cut the shape with angle grinder and cut the axle whole into the side, then weld a piece on to make the other side. (sorry if thats confusing ill do photos). this way i can make the arms really tuff and custom shape to my bike.

Currently i have the bike, im waiting for electronics and i still have to order the following:
Helmet upgrade - http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=69808
lights from jaycar
battery from hobby king
maybe some DH protective stuff, jacket and knee pads.

Please comment and give advice, I have good electronics experiance and moderate bike experiance, but some of this is new to me.

[dogman]

Well, no idea what perfromance you want, speeds, distance.

You should be able to cram 12s 10 ah lipo in the triangle space, not much more though. The rest will have to go alongside frame tubes or on top, or on the forks, etc. Others have done well with pvc roof gutter drain pipe. It can be cut, heat bent, re welded with pvc cement too.

I find a seatpost rack a really convenient place to mount the controller, no weight really, so not like putting a heavy battery there. Other stuff like a horn could go there too if you don't want handlebar clutter.

A fast wind motor is not what I'd recomend for a 29" wheel. A hubmotor stuggles enough in 26", so a faster winding AND bigger wheel just makes it worse. HT instead?

Grin cyclery simulator will help you make comparisons, to get your speed, motor winding, wheel size, and battery voltage dialed in to your needs. Provided you want realistic goals that is.

My aluminum and wood battery boxes have been rounded, sharp edges minimized, padded. But I still scrape skin off on em when I srcrew up good. They stick out saddlebag style, and can definitely find your knees.

[pendragon8000]

Thanks Dogman, I'd like to not have a seat post rack if possible. I'll see how i go jaming everything into the triangle. I want 20Km range on flat at high speed 50KpH+ . And yeah the thought of an aluminium edge gauging into my knee scares me allot. My knees have enough trouble from Kung Fu.

Im getting a custom kit from Hyena. Its quite high voltage so more than 12s, i think, 20s?

But yeah i really dont want handle bar clutter. Hopefully i can keep it looking like a "push bike"

I feel ok about the hs over the ht after watching this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgssLyUYlcQ

I dont have experiance here but it seems the documentation from crystalyte suggests the motors have more efficiency at high speed or high torque. It will be a good experiment in any case.

[pendragon8000]

Dogman, couldn't find said simulator, but i found this one:
http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator/

seems legit. i put my specs and should be getting 112NM of torque off the line with a top speed of 64kph (hs3540),
hs3525 gave me 133NM off the line and 50kph top speed.

[t3sla]

if your doing diy light/horn setup think about using this to controll it

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=41060

[pendragon8000]

EDIT its not 120 NM with the hs3450, it was 112NM.

[ebent]

I think a converter makes more sense. Get the same amount of combined battery rather than one large and one small for lights/horn. That way you only have one set to charge. And you have more choices. For example if you are going on a day trip and need all the juice for a longer distance. I power a head light, tail light, CA, horn, mini motorcycle stereo, and cigarette lighter for a charging port.

[pendragon8000]

Thanks T3sla, thats tidy.
I should explain why i want a itchy horn trigger finger b4 i explain how i was thinking of seting it up... i work on a fork-lift and have to abuse the horn all day with blind spots etc, so i have no wories about using a horn while driving for others safety. so i was thinking of using a micro switch with black heat shrink over the activator arm with the switch arm under my thumb on grip (left or right?). so im resting my thumb on the horn all the time. Im am pretty horn trigger happy . don't judge me lol

Ebent, yeah thats a good call thanks.. I havnt looked hard but this is the only cheap not low power one i've found, got any suggestions?
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store ... 48-60v.php

[pendragon8000]

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem ... cmd=VIDESC
Looks good hey?

[dogman]

Ebikes ca has the same website url, but the shop is now called Grin cyclery. That's the right sim.

If Hyena is helping you out, you are on the right track. He's top notch.

Do his bikes look like pushbikes still? Neither will yours, get over it unless you want something weak. It's never going to all fit in that triangle. Just fit things so they don't look bad if that matters to you. Lots of people mount controllers on the underside of the downtube. Fine if you never ride in the wet. I prefer to mount a controller on the "dry side" of a seatpost rack myself.

But I don't care much about looks, as you can see.

Dogmans Dirt bomber. small.jpg (95.96 KiB) Viewed 2472 times

[ebent]

http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/green-g ... 6-72v.html is the link where I got my converter. The one you showed looked good. I have used mine for 2+ years with no issues. If it quit tomorrow I would buy another one. They have reduced the price since I bought mine.

[pendragon8000]

Thanks Dogman, nice bike. Your right it wont look like a pushy. I'll just do what i can. controller under down tube sounds good, i dont think ill ever go out in the wet so thats a good option, works for stealth ebikes.

Thanks for the link Ebent, thats a good price . Ill have to wait and see exactly what voltage comes out of the hadron mkV battery pay Jay is sending me. to get 4Kw it must be something like 80V x 50A. He said its around 50 amps so im gunna need the dc - dc to handle 80V . have you had yours on 80V Ebent?

[ebent]

Thunderstruck has them for 80v but they are over $200. I think a good idea is to call thunderstruck and see if the 72v will work. I have a 48v pack that starts out at 53-54v. I'm not good at the calculations but I'm sure thunderstruck will know. I've talked to them before and they were veryer friendly.

[Hyena]

If Hyena is helping you out, you are on the right track. He's top notch.

Lies, he's a hack
Thanks for the kind words dogman
Ken, don't buy that dc converter, ill get you something smaller and cheaper. 20 amps is overkill for running a few lights and low powered accessories.
As for still looking like a push bike, it doesn't HAVE to be a cobbled together mess and with a neat rear rack and bag it can be quite low key. Using lipo means you can keep the battery size to a minimum but theres still the controller and motor to try and conceal. We'll discuss more over email.

[dogman]

Exactly. It definitely can be made to look better than I do. Even if all the battery doesn't fit in the triangle and some goes on top or to the side, a nice cover for the thing can be made if you make the effort.

I just wanted you to realize it's going to take up a bit more space than you think at first, particularly if you want 700wh or so.

[pendragon8000]

Yeah, yeah dogman, i know its gunna be a beast. Im pretty good at making stuff. I was thinking i would like to show what I can do. i dont want to aim too high but i am confident i can make it pretty tidy.

1 other thing i forgot to mention that will be a good resourse for futute others is the eBrake conversion of hydrolic brake(s). micro switches. i have used them a bit in the past, really versatile with the flexible arm and snappy action push switch. should fit the scott spark standard rear hydrolic brak on the hs3540 hub.

[ebent]

hyena, what is the alternative to a dc converter?

[pendragon8000]

http://www.ebikes.ca/lights/

theese look RAD. but they are expensive. a tidy diy could be brighter, cheaper, and permanent(can't be pulled/stolen).

i was thinking 6 x m11 downlights:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=ZD0341
heatsinks on the edge could be filled to square so the fit together tight, then glue to inside of alloy case with heatsink compound.
in this box:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... ATID=987#1

rear light: an array of 5mm cree red leds with resistor(s)

[ebent]

here is a link for a motorcycle stereo it is 12v http://www.motorcyclespeakers.net/shop/ ... 7-prd1.htm I've used mine for more than 2 years. No problems. Rock on!

I have a stella head light. Small but powerful. If you ask, they will sell the light without their battery system. http://www.lightandmotion.com/bike/stella300.html These light are made in more powerful versions but I had what I wanted in their least powerful version. They work on 12v.

I have a grin rear led red light/flasher. Any voltage

I installed this 12v horn http://www.westendmotorsports.com/chris ... 22730.html I got a universal horn button from napa auto parts.

A bus bar like this one http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... &langId=-1 can be powered by a 12v converter. From there, power all your 12v stuff. Including any grin stuff. You are very limited in choices if you do not use 12v.

[Samd]

Where are you located pendragon?

[pendragon8000]

Where are you located pendragon?

Adelaide, why is that?

[Samd]

Because if you update your profile to include your area you'll get local help, some excellent builders out your way. And you might even get invited on a local group ride, but we can't talk more about that. The first rule of fight club....

[pendragon8000]

Because if you update your profile to include your area you'll get local help, some excellent builders out your way. And you might even get invited on a local group ride, but we can't talk more about that. The first rule of fight club....

Lol cheers, I edited my profile. Love that movie btw

[pendragon8000]

ok so Hyena contacted me re the kit, should be ready in a week or so, but thats cool cos im busy this weekend and ive got to finish this home brew temprature controller project first any way. He said hes got a 12v converter for me that i need for tail light (im using 10 x 3w led) and car horn. He also can supply a 12w led head light, i think i know the sort of thing he has, should be sweet.

also want to set up a charger that does each cell in <= 1hr.

Big thanks to Hyena

also have been sketching up a batery / controller box for triangle, will be fun to get my airasol art skills going on that, will go wood and epoxy all the way i reakon. use some skills i learnt from my old mates that built boats. should look pretty native to the og frame.

[pendragon8000]

Has anyone made a latching circuit with a relay that locks the bike into street legal mode? My idea is to have a small push button on the handle bars that over-rides the power switch and keeps it at 200watt limited
Have a reset switch down near controller. I can work out the diagram but just thought I'd see what ppl think
..