Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 24, 2017 2:14 pm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I came across a head tube mounted rack called the dutch rack. It can be found on the " Dutch bike bits " website a UK store.

Image

Steco Headtube mounted front bicycle rack

The Steco headtube mounted rack mounts directly to the headtube of your bike and carries luggage with the weight on the frame, not on the handlebars. The maximum size of package which can be carried is limited in the vertical direction by the height of your handlebars, so consider ordering a longer handlebar stem together with this rack.

The rack area is 35 cm x 28 cm.

Works with suspension forks (though bikes with suspension forks are not ideal for carrying cargo).

Supplied with mounting brackets which are spaced at 10 cm between their centres. The minimum length of clear head tube which this bracket can be mounted on is 12 cm. The maximum diameter of headtube which can be accommodated by the brackets supplied with the rack is 45 mm. Two sets of brackets are provided, straight and angled, to accommodate a wide range of head tubes.

Weight approximately 1.7 kg. For well over 80 years, Steco have produced a wide range of very strong bicycle racks used by generations of Dutch people to carry a wide range of cargo and people. this very conservative company rates this rack as having a capacity of 10 kg.
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Buk___ » Dec 24, 2017 3:57 pm

eCue wrote:
Dec 24, 2017 2:14 pm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I came across a head tube mounted rack called the dutch rack. It can be found on the " Dutch bike bits " website a UK store.

Image

...
I've seen those before; I lived and worked in NL for 4 years. Problem is, my frame has zero space between the top and down tubes at the head tube. Both are oval in shape and together entirely fill the head tube.

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 24, 2017 4:55 pm

You might be chasing your tail on a head tube rack and its a pretty high place for a mount, Have you considered side mount pannier racks ? I like that they carry the weight below the wheel and near the axle
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Chalo » Dec 24, 2017 5:00 pm

I think he's trying to decouple the load from the steering.
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 24, 2017 5:08 pm

Second best is better then nothing.

how about cutting a 40% length section of pipe same diameter as the head tubes front face. Weld attaching points to it. Strip the paint from the frame and attache with automotive panel adhesive
Last edited by eCue on Dec 24, 2017 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by The fingers » Dec 24, 2017 5:15 pm

I can say from experience that the worst way is swinging plastig bags with gallons of milk from the ends of the handlebars while pedaling. :oops:
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Buk___ » Dec 24, 2017 5:19 pm

eCue wrote:
Dec 24, 2017 4:55 pm
You might be chasing your tail on a head tube rack and its a pretty high place for a mount, Have you considered side mount pannier racks ? I like that they carry the weight below the wheel and near the axle
As chalo mentioned, I dislike the weight acting on the steering. I also hate adding unsuspended weight; especially relatively delicate stuff.

Mostly what I'll be carrying is maybe 3-4kg of camera, tripod and stuff. I've been carrying (pre-electrification) the camera in a small handlebar mounted bag, and strapping the tripod and stuff behind the seat, but that space is now taken by my controller and battery pack, so I need to make other arrangements.

The current idea is that the front plate of my headstock bracket will have 3 or 4 tapered keyhole slots and I can fabricate a platform and a basket and ...,
that are interchangeable and simply slot in and out. My bars are already wellout of the way -- about 160mm above the top of the headtube -- and I can drop the platform down to 100mm (max. front travel) above the mudguard.

The 10kg above was just to cover the occasional shopping trip which is 5k there and back, and all via shared use cycle paths, so not high speed.

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Chalo » Dec 24, 2017 5:23 pm

If he's making his own frame mounted rack, he can put the platform as low as the front wheel allows.

My front loader carries over 100 pounds from time to time, and handles almost as well as when it's empty.

Oh, fingers-- it's actually even worse if the heavy stuff in a bag is all on one side, like 20lb of kitty litter with nothing to counterbalance it. I've done a lot of grocery shopping by just dangling a bunch of bags, and it feels as dumb as it looks.
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Buk___ » Dec 24, 2017 5:25 pm

The fingers wrote:
Dec 24, 2017 5:15 pm
I can say from experience that the worst way is swinging plastig bags with gallons of milk from the ends of the handlebars while pedaling. :oops:
Try 6kg of sugar for a batch of home brew.

I tried to distribute it evenly both side once. Big mistake! Huge!

With it all on one side you can use one hand to stop the bag swinging about and the other for braking.

With one each side it's like being the middle ball in Newton's cradle.

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 24, 2017 10:36 pm

Made me smile when I read that Buk__ I have dealt with the same scenario.
One time had to drop a two liter pop in a bag at 50 kmh to avoid crashing .
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 24, 2017 11:02 pm

I have more input on the head tube rack..If you were to bond sections of pipe to the frame for attachment points JB weld imo would work well as it acts as a filler as well as bond so tolerances can be less stringent.
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LockH » Dec 25, 2017 4:49 am

Fun thread. :)

My vote? For "cargo"-capacity as in passengers. `Been after a local bike trailer builder to make me something like this:

Image

So yeah, can carry "cargo"... but also paying customers... :lol:

... like a rickshaw:
Image

... watt can be hooked up to/pulled by a bettery-electric bike/trike. :mrgreen:
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 25, 2017 4:26 pm

Those kids are going to have great memories of that Day and taking the easy way home , future ebikers !
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LockH » Dec 25, 2017 7:06 pm

^^ Hehe "future ebikers"... to get around "taxi industry concerns", my hope is to offer free rickshaw rides to tourists... (drinks/snacks extra) and to hand out pamphlets for local ebike stores who might give me some small "kickbacks"/ commissions" where any brochures translate as sales of new ebikes. :wink:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

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https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

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https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 25, 2017 8:27 pm

You would likely do well in Tips $$ :shock: $$
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LockH » Dec 25, 2017 8:53 pm

eCue wrote:
Dec 25, 2017 8:27 pm
You would likely do well in Tips $$ :shock: $$
Hehe... How to write off yer batteries as a "food expense":
https://www.ibiketo.ca/guide/how-tos/ho ... ke-courier

:wink:

PS... "tips" good though. :mrgreen: ("TIP"= "To Insure Promptness") :mrgreen:
Last edited by LockH on Dec 27, 2017 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 26, 2017 7:40 pm

Well Its official , Im making a charge station on a trailer. So far the plan is to mount a 3'6 x 22" 100w panel just above the rails with a 2nd panel under it on a sliding frame so it can be pulled out when stopped. Probably will make a brace for it so in calm weather it can be pull out on the highway stretches between cities.

Image

I have not started to design the frame , I need to study up on the people ahead of me who have proven mounting systems / techniques.

Image

Image

Today priced 1/2" standard 3040 chromoly tube a 11 foot length goes for $100 and weighs in at 2.6 lbs.

I have 2 100w panels on order for this and will be spending the winter months building a lightweight secure frame.

Image

The panels weigh between 3 and 4lbs each , the battery and supplies will help lower the center of gravity and they will be kept plastered to the floor and secured in place.

My angle for the build

Strong and road side repairable

Low and light

Movable joints to absorb tip over shock , It will be built with tip overs in mind.

Funny stuff , I expect to amuse people on the road :D but its something ive wanted to do for a long time.
Last edited by eCue on Dec 26, 2017 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by LewTwo » Dec 26, 2017 7:41 pm

Just ran across this thread and will toss in my devalued two cents worth:

1) Affirmative on decoupling the front weight from the steering. Years ago (as a teenager) I delivered papers on a bike with two big rear baskets and a front 'working' basket. We (my father's idea actually ---thank you and RIP) used "U" bolts to mount the front basket to the head tube rather than the handle bar. Much safer as one hand/arm spent most of the time throwing the papers.

2) I love my Burley Travoy but wish it had a shorter tongue as I now hitch it to the back of the rear bike rack. At some point I might build a clone ... possibly using 3/4 inch EMT tubing. I also do not care for the "fold up" design. Good feature if you need it but I do not and it just weakens the frame.

3) One of my pet peeves ... "alloy" is NOT aluminum but rather any combination of two or more metals. Damned little chance that you will find anything today commonly manufactured from any 'pure' metal. The exception is electrolytic-tough pitch (ETP) copper wiring which is 99.9 percent copper.
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 26, 2017 8:37 pm

A modern version of a folding canvas roof

Image
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by craneplaneguy » Dec 26, 2017 11:13 pm

eCue wrote:
Dec 26, 2017 7:40 pm
Well Its official , Im making a charge station on a trailer. So far the plan is to mount a 3'6 x 22" 100w panel just above the rails with a 2nd panel under it on a sliding frame so it can be pulled out when stopped. Probably will make a brace for it so in calm weather it can be pull out on the highway stretches between cities.

Image

I have not started to design the frame , I need to study up on the people ahead of me who have proven mounting systems / techniques.

Image

Image

Today priced 1/2" standard 3040 chromoly tube a 11 foot length goes for $100 and weighs in at 2.6 lbs.

I have 2 100w panels on order for this and will be spending the winter months building a lightweight secure frame.

Image

The panels weigh between 3 and 4lbs each , the battery and supplies will help lower the center of gravity and they will be kept plastered to the floor and secured in place.

My angle for the build

Strong and road side repairable

Low and light

Movable joints to absorb tip over shock , It will be built with tip overs in mind.

Funny stuff , I expect to amuse people on the road :D but its something ive wanted to do for a long time.
Freight on a 11' length of tubing will be a killer, you must be talking total lineal footage? Aircraft Spruce is another good source for the stuff, with prompt shipping at whatever length you need.

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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 27, 2017 1:22 pm

Wood is a viable option and affordable .. I'm hoping a local engineering / metal fab business keeps 4130 in stock or will order it with their next load.
We have a aircraft business in town , Coulsens ,who keeps and repairs flying water tankers and business class helicopters on the outskirts of the City with luck the firms that supply him have Chromoly stock.

So far

The Canada online metal supplier I priced the Chromoly at offers small batch deliveries with a $5 per cut fee. In my case that would be two 3.5 sections and two 2 foot sections.


Wood friend or foe

We are in a logging town with spruce fir and cedar in the hills.

A wood frame would be / could be roadside repairable. Cedar being so flexible when it breaks it splinters like intertwined fingers so it can be jammed back together and bound if it where to break.
A major problem with cedar / wood is the mounting brackets , with tube I can buy adjustable joints with wood it would not be so simple.

But maybe a combination of the two will work together :idea: :

I want it to be something simple employing store bought swivel joints , this next trailer is what im after.

Image

Although in my case the panel will end at the middle of the rear wheel.

I will know more about the metal price / availability when speak with a few local engineering firms.
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 27, 2017 2:44 pm

A link to about 10 higher quality trailers and a few lower quality ..a few I have seen for the first time.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-bik ... e-touring/
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by markz » Dec 27, 2017 11:14 pm

Building a rack right now, 1" angle 3/16" thick is going to be the top figuring 22" long, then scrap metal reinforced with some wood (in the middle) for the rack mounting holes, triangled to the seat bolt. Tomorrow I need to make Torque Arm plates and figure out the vertical metal to be used.

Do you think I should go with flat metal, angle iron or boxed or tube?
I really need strength!!!!

As I like to hang my battery on the left side of the rack, which weighs whatever 15S8P in 18650 with some 1/8" wood protectant. Say for arguments sake, 14lbs, bumps and curbs would make that multiple times more.
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by eCue » Dec 27, 2017 11:49 pm

The angle iron is easiest to work with so far your rack is looking very durable like really durable.


I had no idea until I looked but the airplane outfit in town is currently converting 737's into flying tankers ~ http://fireaviation.com/2017/05/21/cou ... r-tankers/

Coulson Aviation is adding not only additional air tankers to their fleet, but is branching out into a different model of aircraft. The company has purchased six 737-300’s and intends to convert them into 4,000-gallon “Fireliner” air tankers. Britt Coulson said they saw an opportunity when Southwest Airlines made a decision to replace their 737-300’s with the new 737-Max. Since the FAA only allows Southwest pilots to fly two of the 737’s with the same rating, the airline opted to sell the 737-300’s even though they have a relatively low number of hours in the sky.

The first conversion has started, with a freshly painted 737 scheduled to roll out of the paint shop in Spokane on May 22, 2017. The next step is to add the gravity-based tanks which will have the same technology used on their C-130’s.

The air tanker is being designed as a multi-use aircraft with the ability to haul passengers. Mr. Coulson said, “With a full retardant load and 4.5 hours of fuel we are so far under max gross weight we are going to leave the full interior and galleys in even when just in airtanker mode.”

The company likes the three C-130’s that they have already converted to air tankers, but finding additional C-130’s for the civilian market is very difficult.

A 737 will be able to use some air tanker bases that larger aircraft, like the C-130, can’t, with a wingspan that is about 38 feet shorter.

Mr. Coulson said they expect to begin installing the retardant system in June with a completion date of December of this year. When that is complete they will start on another. The first conversion will be done by Coulson Aircrane Canada


Image
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Re: Panniers, trailers, and other cargo solutions

Post by Chalo » Dec 28, 2017 1:48 am

eCue wrote:
Dec 27, 2017 2:44 pm
A link to about 10 higher quality trailers and a few lower quality ..a few I have seen for the first time.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/best-bik ... e-touring/
The fact that only one of those trailers has a full diameter wheel, and only two of them can be loaded for correct tongue weight, makes me question the writer's criteria. Basically, anything you can do with most of the trailers in the article, you can also do without a trailer.

I can see the point of them if you want to tour with a sporting road bike or MTB. If you can't mount racks and panniers, you have to make another plan.

To me, adding, pulling, and locking up the trailer is enough of an inconvenience that I'll only find it worthwhile if I can carry more, bigger, or heavier things than I can carry on the bike.
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