HELP NEEDED LONGSTAR scooter

Joined
Dec 14, 2012
Messages
336
Location
norfolk, uk , england
HI im new to all of this e-bike stuff so please be patient with me :)

i decided to buy one because i have c,o,p,d and have not been able to peddle a bike for the last 10 years ,, so made the move and bought a longstar ebike.
it is 48v with a motor built in the hub ,, see attachment for picture of the bike ,,,

i would like to know as much about these bikes as possible right down to the motor,
i have read that some motors have brushes in them ,, do mine have brushes or are the longstar brushless ??

also there is a socket on the bike for charging the batteries, it looks the same as a mains socket on the back of a pc..
is there ment to be a charger that plugs into this or is the charger on the bike and the mains plug into this socket ?? i was not given a mains cable or a charger with the bike, and do not feel like traveling 300 miles again if it is just a mains cable ,,

it also looks like the batteries have been rewired because there is a household trip switch connected to the batteries, and the wires look to thin for a 20amp current draw ,,
i will get a picture of the wireing in the next day or so ,,

anything else i can find out about these bikes would be handy. i dont know what the electronic parts are called on the bike as everything is in chinese and no english writing on any of the parts so will be uploading pictures of the parts for advice ..
 

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justlooking said:
i have read that some motors have brushes in them ,, do mine have brushes or are the longstar brushless ??
How many wires come out of the motor? (meaning, how many pins in the connector). Two = brushed, three, five, or more, probably means brushless.

is there ment to be a charger that plugs into this or is the charger on the bike and the mains plug into this socket ??
Could be either. Unfortunately it's common on various Chinese bikes and batteries to misuse the IEC socket and plug for the DC end of things, which has led to damage of battery packs occasionally when they get plugged directly into the wall instead of a charger, by people that don't know any different.

Under the covers of the vehicle, is there a box between the battery and the socket, or does it go straight to the battery? If there's a box it could be a charger, but you'd want to check it closer to be sure.


Another option is to use google or other search engines to look up your brand and model (or search on the brand name and then find images that match yours) and see what their specs are, if they list whether charger is onboard or not. There's quite a few sites that show this brand in a google search on the name.






Sounds like it's a used vehicle, which could mean any number of problems with it. Does it operate at all?



it also looks like the batteries have been rewired because there is a household trip switch connected to the batteries, and the wires look to thin for a 20amp current draw ,,
Do you mean a household type circuit breaker? That's also not uncommon, for even factory-built items to misuse AC-type circuit breakers for DC applications (but it is even more common for DIY fixes and "upgrades").
 
justlooking said:
HI im new to all of this e-bike stuff so please be patient with me :)

i decided to buy one because i have c,o,p,d and have not been able to peddle a bike for the last 10 years ,, so made the move and bought a longstar ebike.

Welcome to ES! :D

I have a couple of questions.

1: Did you purchase the ebike new, or used?
2: Did it come with any users guide or manual at all?

The more pictures of the workings under the covers, the easier it will be to identify.
What model numbers are on the bike?
What do the batteries look like?
What do the electronics connected to the batteries look like etc.

Do your best to give us as much info as you can and we will do what we can to help.

:D
 
You'll have to poke around some in the wiring to figure out the charger situation.

Most likely, that plug to charge will need a 48v charger to feed it. But look at the wiring, if that plugs wires lead into an onboard charger, you should see it on the wires between the plug and the battery. If nothing but wire, you need a charger.

You can try to look up the bike on the internet, and perhaps find specifications for it such as brushed or brushless. Chances are, you will need a new battery and charger. It might be worth it to convert to lithium battery anyway, which would require a new charger anyway.

The lead battery it likely came with, will not have much range. How far do you need to go?
 
thankyou every one ,, so far i have found out the following,

Specification:Motor Power:800W brushless

Speed: 40-50km/hr.

Battery: Lead acid 20Ah 48V

Charge time: 6-8hr.

Maximum Loading capacity: <100kgs

Rated voltage: 48V

Distance in one time charge: 60km


.
i will get the pictures asap ,, prob monday ,,


the bike is new old stock mm ok its 6 years old .. but it was one of 26. all of them were kept in dry storage all the time,

WHAT IS the charging voltages for charging lead batteries that are 48v ? and recommended amps ??

i have been intouch with the person i bought it off and he said he will post the charger to me

.
 
justlooking said:
Battery: Lead acid 20Ah 48V
Then there's not likely any BMS. Charger could well be onboard, like a powerchair charger typically is.

Distance in one time charge: 60km
Probably not while at maximum speed, or in stop-and-go traffic. ;)

the bike is new old stock mm ok its 6 years old .. but it was one of 26. all of them were kept in dry storage all the time,
Then the SLA batteries are probably dead. Maybe revivable with a desulfator, but I'd bet on having to buy new ones, or a different type of pack with the same voltage range (LiFePO4 is common for that, but will probably need a higher Ah pack to acheive the same take-off and hill-climbing performance without battery degradation).


WHAT IS the charging voltages for charging lead batteries that are 48v ? and recommended amps ??
Usually about 56V-60V during charging, but it will settle down after you take it off. The batteries themselves should have the max charging current listed on them, but on some of the 18Ah and 20Ah ones I have here, 5A is listed as absolute max, and I usually charged them at 3 or 4A depending on which charger I had with me.
 
i have got the following pictures ,, the batteries i found out are 12v 20amp,
i have charged one and it held the voltage over nigh after takeing it off charge ,, so hopefully i can use that for something else ,, i have as yet to try and charge the other 3 of them

here are the pictures of the parts i can see, one i think is the controler for the motor [orange sticker on it ]
one i think is a dc to dc converter 30 to 60v in and 12v 10A out ??

one is the back of the plug that looks like the plug on the back of a pc ,, has black wire and a white with red tracer ,, i have not as yet traced the wires to see if they both go to the batteries, the two red wires goto the AC trip switch.

DSCN2392.JPG

View attachment 2

DSCN2396.JPG

Image1.jpg
 
I would say you are correct about the components so far.

If the black wire and the red with white trace go to opposite ends of the battery bank (the batteries should be in series) then that would be where you plug in a 48 volt lead acid charger.

One note: The battery is 12 volt 20 amp hours, not amps. It's important to get the units right. Amps is how much current flows. Amp Hours is how much capacity it has (how long it can flow). I'm simplifying it quite a bit but that's a start.

Gary
 
i can not afford the lithium batteries ,, wish i could , i saw some on ebay the other day, 48v 12ah but i would need at least 2 of those, about twice the price of the lead batteries ,, :(

in the future i might try to get some, but at the moment these will have to do ,, the new ones should be delivered today ,, im waiting for them ,, im just hopeing that the courier is reliable ,,

then i have to wait for the charger to arrive ,

if you get new lead batteries is it recommended to charge them before use ?? or can i just put them on and try the bike out ??
 
No, gotta charge them first. Then with lead, try to never discharge them 100%. Most rides you want to discharge no more than 50%, then put it back on charge immediately.
Of course, you might have to test the thing to have a clue what 100% discharge is, then cut your distance in half if possible for future rides.

The charger should bring them to at least 52v fully charged, and idealy more like 54v. 56-60v is more typical of 48v lithium. Looks like you have an off board charger. So if the one sent doesn't work, you can get any low amp rate scooter charger in 48v to replace it. You would of course need to add the right type of plug to use it.

Lifepo4 battery would be nice for you, but like you said expensive. If you plan on really long rides, like 20 miles, you will need lithium. Only way to get that kind of range from lead is to crawl along extremely slow.
 
thank folks this is a great site ,, so much info on here ,, i have looked through alot of the other posts . but i must admit most are to technical for me,

i was told that the charge rate for these batteries is about 3amps ,, so i was wondering ,, if i connect them in parallel +pos to +pos and -neg to -neg could i charge them all at the same time with my 6amp charger ?
once i get the original charger then i can leave them on the bike and charge them in series as normal
 
yippy wat a day ,,, my new batteries for my bike have arrived ,, and so has the charger ,,,,now charging the old ones to see if i can recuperate them ,,going to take a long time though ,, as i am putting in less than half an amp into each battery ,, but if they are faulty then i have the new ones to put in ,,,

i noticed that the original charger that i was sent only gives out 1.5amp .. since its charging 4 batteries in series, that don't sound much ,,, i believe its only 0.375 of a amp for each battery .. taking into account that the batteries are 20ah ,, if my calculations are right ,, it will take days to charge them ,,

mind you im no good at maths so might have it wrong
 
well now i have partially charged the old batteries ,
well , the bike is working on the old batteries ,,im wondering now if i didnt need the the new ones ,,£130+ ,, ouch ,,



will have to see how the running tests go ,, the old batteries have not been charged for 6 years, but since they have not been used there is a chance that they might be ok ,, as long as i charge them really slow with minimal amps ,, at the moment each battery has only been charge with 0.037 of a amp ..
 
ok today i used the bike for the first time ,, at first i was impressed ,,BUT

on slight inclines is slows down alot ,,the journey was 3miles one way ,, after about 2 miles it over heated and the AC trip switch that had been fitted ,, well it tripped cutting all power to the bike ,, it was also quite warm to the touch ,,

ok i know im 290pounds ,, but i was expecting 800w to be able to handle slight inclines better than it did at one point it would go no faster that between 5 and 10 mph ,, i had to change my riute to avoid small humpback bridges and slight hilly parts ,

im now thinking of useing this bike and the one for spares to make a twin motor trike ,, but would it help or am i wasting my time with electric due to my weight ??
 
Even today, many who are new to light EV's still start out with Sealed-Lead-Acid (SLA) because it has the lowest purchase price. Also because of this, they are well-known. The Lithium batteries that you mention being twice as expensive, they will last 4-times longer (or more), but its actually good that you are starting out with SLA. Everyone makes mistakes, and you can get the rest of the scooter sorted out while using up a less expensive pack.

You might also join http://visforvoltage.org/, the majority of posts there are for this type of E-scooter. I seem to recall many owners upgraded the system controller, battery, and charger to 60V lithium after the SLA died. That would increase the overall power and top speed...but it is expensive. http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-60V-LiFePO4-Battery-Packs/Categories

As Dogman said, you should never use more than 50% of SLA capacity, but Lithium can safely provide 90%, meaning if you are happy with the range of 20-Ah SLA, you can use a 15-AH Lithium pack, but...some type of Low-Voltage-Cutoff (LVC) is vital. A $150 CycleAnalyst might be expensive right now, but it will help prevent damaging an expensive lithium pack.

Every mile you ride on SLA, the acceleration power (ability to produce a burst of amps) goes down. Somewhere around 50%, the voltage sag gets so bad it is dangerous when riding between traffic, as well as the batteries will die sooner from too-deep of a discharge. Lithium would provide near its full performance for more than 80% of its capacity, and near the end, voltage sag is small.
 
spinningmagnets thanks m8 ,,

i think its going to have to be lithium ..

and changeing the lights to LEDs ,, i did 3 miles last night with the lights on 2/3rds of the way, and the battery meter was down in the red by the time i got home ,,
but im also going to have to think of maybe a different type of bike or upgrading this one ,, the motor just do not have the power for my 290pounds weight, on the flat it is fine ,, but any incline and the speed drops right off ,,

if i go for lithium i will go for the 48v 20ah ,, as i think i will be pushing the current flow in a 15ah one ,,
also i am going to double up the battery wires that link the batteries together as they dont look thick enough for the amps the motor needs ,, kl
 
Hi,
I have been looking at one of these on the electronic bay in the exact condition you described, possibly the same seller?
I have a 10 mile trip to work on good old fashioned Yorkshire so it is relatively hilly terrain and was wondering if it would be economical to get an ebike. Are you planning on getting yours registered with the DVLA?

Not to be cheeky but do you have a shot of the battery bay and what batteries did you end up buying? I am wondering if there is room to add another battery bank or use two bigger batteries. Maybe knock up a cradle that hangs off the sides where the metal luggage shelf is? I am assuming that adding batteries in parallel wont damage the controller?

I am intrigued to know how you are getting on.

Thanks,

Elliot
 
ellhead said:
Hi,
I have been looking at one of these on the electronic bay in the exact condition you described, possibly the same seller?
I have a 10 mile trip to work on good old fashioned Yorkshire so it is relatively hilly terrain and was wondering if it would be economical to get an ebike. Are you planning on getting yours registered with the DVLA?

Not to be cheeky but do you have a shot of the battery bay and what batteries did you end up buying? I am wondering if there is room to add another battery bank or use two bigger batteries. Maybe knock up a cradle that hangs off the sides where the metal luggage shelf is? I am assuming that adding batteries in parallel wont damage the controller?

I am intrigued to know how you are getting on.

Thanks,

Elliot
to be honest they are ok, but got great on performance m8 ,, they are more suited to flatter parts of the country as they do not like the hills ,, realy they need a couple of gears on them ,,

i weigh 20stone and can get 30 out of it ,, but when my 11 stone niece went on it ,, it flew along ..

i had to but 4 batteries that i managed to get for just under £140 delivered, they are high cycle ones for golf-carts they are 12v 22ah each ..

you could fit another 2 batteries under the seat ,, but remember these have 4 12v batteries running at a total of 48v ,, so if you wanted to double them up for more distance then you would have to connect another 4 batteries ..

for the cost of them you would be better off buying one of the lithium batteries as some one suggested to me ,, a 15amp/hour would be a lot lighter and give more distance per charge ,,

i am now selling mine and bought a mid/motor that i am going to fit onto a bicycle because then i can use the gears for any hills.

as for registering it for road use ,, well that is up to the user ,, at the moment they have no way to test them to see if they are more that 250w ..
 
justlooking said:
to be honest they are ok, but got great on performance m8 ,, they are more suited to flatter parts of the country as they do not like the hills ,, realy they need a couple of gears on them ,,

i weigh 20stone and can get 30 out of it ,, but when my 11 stone niece went on it ,, it flew along ..

i had to but 4 batteries that i managed to get for just under £140 delivered, they are high cycle ones for golf-carts they are 12v 22ah each ..

you could fit another 2 batteries under the seat ,, but remember these have 4 12v batteries running at a total of 48v ,, so if you wanted to double them up for more distance then you would have to connect another 4 batteries ..

for the cost of them you would be better off buying one of the lithium batteries as some one suggested to me ,, a 15amp/hour would be a lot lighter and give more distance per charge ,,

i am now selling mine and bought a mid/motor that i am going to fit onto a bicycle because then i can use the gears for any hills.

as for registering it for road use ,, well that is up to the user ,, at the moment they have no way to test them to see if they are more that 250w ..

Hang on.

Don't those rules only apply to electric assisted pedal bikes? scooters are a whole other ball game requiring a licence, tax and mot?

Wouldn't you be better off stripping the scooter and retrofitting the parts to a mountain bike?
 
technically in the uk yes they should have pedals , but they do not have to be fitted but really they must be carried in the bike ,,. there are scooters that have pedals but they are not fitted ,,

but how many in or off this site do not have more than 200w on their bikes and dont register them ??

also the legal requirements are that a electric bike must not be over 200w, a trike or tandem can be 250w,


In Great Britain, if you’re 14 or over you don’t need a licence to ride electric bikes that meet certain requirements, and they don’t need to be registered, taxed or insured.

Electric bikes meeting the requirements are called ‘electrically assisted pedal cycles’ (EAPCs). They can be 2-wheeled bicycles, tandems or tricycles.
EAPC requirements

The requirements are:

the bike must have pedals that can be used to propel it
the electric motor shouldn’t be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15mph
the bike (including its battery but not the rider) must not be heavier than 40 kilograms (kg) if it’s a bicycle, or 60kg if it’s a tandem or tricycle
the motor shouldn’t have a maximum power output of more than 200 watts if it’s a bicycle and 250 watts if it’s a tandem or tricycle
the bike must have a plate showing the manufacturer, the nominal voltage of the battery, and the motor’s power output

Where can I ride an EAPC?

If a bike meets the EAPC requirements it’s classed as a normal pedal bike. This means you can ride it on cycle paths and anywhere else pedal bikes are allowed.
Other kinds of electric bike

Any electric bike that doesn’t meet the EAPC rules needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.

The vehicle will also need to be ‘type approved’ to make sure it’s safe to use on the road.
 
justlooking said:
spinningmagnets thanks m8 ,,

i think its going to have to be lithium ..

and changeing the lights to LEDs ,, i did 3 miles last night with the lights on 2/3rds of the way, and the battery meter was down in the red by the time i got home ,,
but im also going to have to think of maybe a different type of bike or upgrading this one ,, the motor just do not have the power for my 290pounds weight, on the flat it is fine ,, but any incline and the speed drops right off ,,

if i go for lithium i will go for the 48v 20ah ,, as i think i will be pushing the current flow in a 15ah one ,,
also i am going to double up the battery wires that link the batteries together as they dont look thick enough for the amps the motor needs ,, kl

That was with the old batteries, wasn't it? They may only have a tenth of the capacity they had new. Also, did you charge them all the way up? Did you check the acid levels before charging.

What I would do is individually charge the new batteries you bought, then swap them into the scooter. See how they work for you. You may find that your problem is mostly the old batteries. Sealed lead acid batteries have a limited shelf life even if never used. The ones that come dry and you have to add acid before using have an almost unlimited shelf life.

I would think, if you are not using it at full throttle all the time, that you should get at least 5 times the range that you got from those old batteries. I would also think that you can get by at least a year on those new batteries if you do not abuse them. Don't give up quite yet!

However, I would not spend a lot more money on the scooter until I had it sorted out, if I were you.
 
its sorted now m8 ,, the juddering was caused by the old batteries, it runs smooth with the new ones on it ,,

im now thinking i have the electric-bike bug ,, i have bought a 450w mid motor with throttle and controller to go on a mountain bike ,, just got to work out what sort to get ,, i can get a alloy one for £200 new ,, but i have read that some people have had damage cause by the power of some motors, im having trouble locally finding one made of steel with disk-brakes front and rear ,,

but i will start a new thread on this matter
 
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