Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

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Kepler   1 GW

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Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Kepler » Jan 16 2013 7:37pm

Arriving at the gym this morning I was surprised to see this parked out the front.
IMG_1792.JPG
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I needed to look twice to confirm it was electric as it looked mostly like a good quality mountain bike.

So of course I then proceeded to track down the owner for a chat as this was the first electric bike besides my stuff I had seen at the gym. Had a good chat and took it for a test ride. I was very pleasantly surprised on how good this bike was. The Pedelec system was very responsive and actual power was not to bad at all. I have to say though, there is no was way it was a 250W. I know what 250W feels like and this was at least double that, not that I was complaining.

The bike sells for $3,300 here in Australia and considering the level of equipment, I think it is quite reasonable. I am actually considering the commuter version as an every day ride. These are $2,500 and although not quite as well equipped, still look to be good value for money. Heading out herehttp://www.dolomitiebikes.com.au/ for closer look tomorrow.

As much as I love my high powered Stealths, I am starting to feel I am starting to push my luck and perhaps its just a matter of time before daily high powered high speed commuting is going to catch up with me in a bad way.
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by MattyCiii » Jan 16 2013 7:55pm

Thanks for the write up. Nice looking ride!
Kepler wrote:...So of course I then proceeded to track down the owner for a chat as this was the first electric bike besides my stuff I had seen at the gym...
I've actually never seen another electric bike "in the wild", ever, except the e-bike deliverymen in NYC (which doesn't count, because purportedly there are many), and just the last two weeks in Boston I've seen two.
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Hyena » Jan 17 2013 12:48am

I came here after seeing you mention it in the stealth thread. It does indeed look pretty nice. The motor isn't too visible from your pic so here's one from their website that makes it more clear

Image

Looks like a mac/bpm/bmc/ezee style motor but they mention on the website it has regen braking which tends to rule out a geared motor ?
What were your thoughts on it ? Did it feel / sound geared ?
The price would make many here choke but it's not a bad considering what other good quality (and some bad quality!) ebikes cost.
I'm dialing the power back more and more myself these days but I'm not sure I'd like to give it up all together with something like this. Sometimes you need that burst of speed or power to get to safety. I reckon it wouldn't be long before we found you with a hidden little 6S booster pack under the seat :P

Manufacturer's specs
Motor: 36V 250W E-motion Pedelec
Battery: 9Ah 36V (324Wh) Samsung Lithium Ion with Regeneration
Gears: 30-speed Shimano Deore - High Efficiency Derailleur
Shifter: Shimano Rapid-fire thumb-shift
Brakes: Tektro Auriga hydraulic disc brakes - Front and Rear
Lights: -
Wheels: 26" - Quick release front
Tyres: 26 x 2.25 Schwalbe Rapid Rob
Forks: Rock Shox XC32
Rear Shock: Suntour Epicon Lord 120
Mudgaurds: [Optional]
Rear Rack: [Optional]
Pedals: MTB Aluminium
Saddle: E-motion Cross
Seatpost: Aluminium
Handlebar: E-motion Cross Alloy
Sidestand: Yes
Lock: -
Cycle Computer: Yes
Modes: Off, Eco, Normal, Sport, Boost
Range: 20-45miles depending on mode, terrain and rider input
Weight: Only 22kg (49lbs) Including Battery
Size: Available in frame size: 49cm (19”)
Max. Rider Weight: 120kg (265lbs / 18s12)
Warranty: Two Years [Bike and Battery]
www.HyenaElectricBikes.com
Aussie high powered e-bike kits and custom performance ebikes
New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by full-throttle » Jan 17 2013 1:17am

Hyena wrote:Looks like a mac/bpm/bmc/ezee style motor but they mention on the website it has regen braking which tends to rule out a geared motor ?
Bafang BPM motor. I spoke to them at the Ausbike. It's got an interesting torque sensor integrated into the dropout.
Regen is prob just a sales gimmick. Since most people with no clue ask about regen it's easier to say YES even though the amount of regen is close to zero.
Hyena wrote:The price would make many here choke but it's not a bad considering what other good quality (and some bad quality!) ebikes cost.
2year warranty incl battery is not bad.

The frame looks decent, pity they didn't have that model at the Ausbike. Kepler, ask what do they use for pivots. Prob bearings on the main and bushings on secondary.
Don't like the look of the head angle and BB height, but I'm sure for the speed and the age group it's designed for it will be fine.

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Kepler » Jan 17 2013 3:35am

It's definitely a geared motor, looked a bit smaller then a Bafang though. Will take a closer look tomorrow. The pedalec has multiple settings. I tested it on the middle setting and it still had a good kick to it. Will also have a close look at the pivot bearing while I am there.
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Kepler » Jan 18 2013 2:02am

Got a chance to test out a couple more models today. One was a 29er and the other road hybrid with rigid forks and 700c road wheels. Both felt quite similar in relation to performance. Was good to give both bikes a good test under proper road conditions. The bikes are Aust legal 250W and are definitely limited to 25kph assist. The torque sensing pedalec works really well and gives the bike a good shove off the mark and up to around 20kph. However, after that, the experience becomes really underwhelming.

The bikes are really nicely built with the battery setup being probably the best I have seen. So much going for these bikes only to be knobbled buy ridiculous local legislation. Even if just the speed limiter was removed, it would make a world of difference the whole riding experience.

If someone is looking for a fully legal Ebike, I think these bikes would be hard to beat and I would strongly recommend you have a closer look. However, for me personally, I just found the bike too slow. I think I could average a quicker speed on my unassisted carbon road bike then even one of the best 250W Ebikes available.

Well at least I now have tried it for myself and can get back to figuring out what my next project will be. :mrgreen:
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by liteCycles » Jan 18 2013 7:43pm

Looks like a very clean design, priced right. With the weight low it must handle great. Might be what we need for e-bike sales to take off a little bit in the US with your average consumer.

Shame the down tube is curved. Makes it harder for 3rd parties to come up with retro-fit battery pack(performance) upgrades.
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by sendler2112 » Jan 18 2013 10:10pm

That's a Horst link rear suspension. Prevents pogo from peddling. Specialized owns the rights and it expensive to license if they actually paid.

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Kepler » Jan 19 2013 4:49am

liteCycles wrote:Looks like a very clean design, priced right. With the weight low it must handle great. Might be what we need for e-bike sales to take off a little bit in the US with your average consumer.

Shame the down tube is curved. Makes it harder for 3rd parties to come up with retro-fit battery pack(performance) upgrades.
Programmed to US 750W and 25mph, the bike would be gem. Battery needs no upgrade IMO. It's a great match for this bike and integrates beautifully into the frame. It unclips for charging too.
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Kepler » Jan 19 2013 4:51am

sendler2112 wrote:That's a Horst link rear suspension. Prevents pogo from peddling. Specialized owns the rights and it expensive to license if they actually paid.
These guys are serious players. I have no doubt it's done by the book.
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by 2moto » Jan 19 2013 5:26am

Yes, Specialised purchased the 4-bar linkage patents from Horst Leitner who invented it when he was at AMP Research many moons ago. However, the patent is US only, I believe, though I haven't done a patent search. I don't know about Australia but it doesn't apply to Canada or Europe. So E-Motion probably doesn't have to pay, except for bikes exported to the US, I suppose.

There is a good write-up on it here along with many other types of suspension designs: http://www.titusti.com/technology/273-2/

Meant to add, that this a very well executed bike, nicely integrated, and very stealth. I like it.

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by RoughRider » Jan 19 2013 5:33am

looks very nice and very clean...i like the design

but price is a bit over the top...

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by migueralliart » Jan 19 2013 6:07pm

Kepler wrote:
liteCycles wrote:Looks like a very clean design, priced right. With the weight low it must handle great. Might be what we need for e-bike sales to take off a little bit in the US with your average consumer.

Shame the down tube is curved. Makes it harder for 3rd parties to come up with retro-fit battery pack(performance) upgrades.
Programmed to US 750W and 25mph, the bike would be gem. Battery needs no upgrade IMO. It's a great match for this bike and integrates beautifully into the frame. It unclips for charging too.
Battery will underperform in the US at 750W for SURE. Those cells will sag quite a bit and this will reduce range a LOT. For the 250W market they are perfect but you need more than 9Ah of capacity so that they don't sag much.

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by miro13car » Jan 19 2013 8:19pm

I must say it is very clean looking ebike, wires neatly hidden, battery is in frame.
Price I must also agree over the top, because it does not use any propertiary motor, just off the shelf motor.
For sure can get a lt of workout on this.

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Kepler » Jan 20 2013 3:10am

The motor is not off the shelf Bafang. It's wider then a normal bafang and has a smaller diameter. Pricewise I really don't think its too bad for the level of equipment. Good quality multilink suspension, nice frame, great battery system , torque based pedalec, and hydro disc brakes makes for a pretty slick package IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I have no affiliation with this company and are a Stealth Bike fan through and through. I just think this is a great example of how a legal 250W bike should be. :)
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by d8veh » Jan 21 2013 10:22am

I was informed by the UK importers that the BH Emotion Neo series has the Bafang BPM2 motor, which is geared. When you apply the brakes, a regen symbol appears on the display, but the tests we did on UK Pedales forum suggest that it doesn't have regen despite the fact that their litterature says that it does. Normally it would be impossible on a BPM2 motor.

The motor has a lot of torque - much more than a 250w Bafang SWX type motor. It felt the same as my 350w BPM1 at 25 amps, so I'm not sure how they got it rated at 250W.

I sent them an email, in which that I explained what we found about the regen and asked for an explanation and confirmation of the regen. Yhis is the reply I received:
"Dave

I answered your email on 7/1 as follows:


"Dave

My understanding is that regeneration gives you about 5% extra battery life.
Not significant either really. But still better than the 0.1% you mention.
We do not claim more.

If you want to get into technical discussion the technical department at BH in Spain may be able to help.


Ian

Ian Mitchell-Innes
"

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Kepler » Jan 21 2013 7:36pm

I can guarantee the Neo and the Jumper I looked at didn't have a BPM2 in them. The motor was smaller then a BPM2. Definitely geared and most definitely didn't have any regen.
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by ElectricEd » Jan 21 2013 8:13pm

Kepler wrote:... Definitely geared and most definitely didn't have any regen.
The Specs say:
Battery: 9Ah 36V (324Wh) Samsung Lithium Ion with Regeneration

If it is a geared motor with a sprague clutch in it then there is no regen.

My reading of the spec says that the battery (or more appropiately, the BMS) is able to cope with regen.
The trouble that I find with regen is that the BMS cuts out once the regen amps get up. On my setup using a Ping 48V 15AH LiFePO4 I find that I have to pulse the brake lever to re-initialise the regen to get any decent amount.
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Hyena » Jan 21 2013 9:32pm

Kepler wrote:Programmed to US 750W and 25mph, the bike would be gem. Battery needs no upgrade IMO
Depends on the winding of the motor. If they truely wanted it to be euro compliant only you'd think they'd use a wind that gave a top speed of 30km/hr to maximise torque and minimise current. This gives the best performance up to the 25km/hr limit whist drawing the minimum amount of current and lets them get by with a smallish capacity / low C rating battery.

While I too would much prefer a US specc'd model it'd necessitate a faster wind motor that's going to draw more current down low. I might be wrong, but if I was them that's how I'd do it.
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by full-throttle » Feb 05 2013 9:39pm

Met a guy on e-motion last night. Pointed him to the forum, so he may share his thoughts.

Saw him a couple of times before going in the opposite direction. Wears a full face and a moto jacket. On a bikepath. 36degC day.

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Hyena » Feb 05 2013 10:28pm

full-throttle wrote:Met a guy on e-motion last night.... Wears a full face and a moto jacket. On a bikepath. 36degC day.
Jesus that's bloody keen!
I've been neglecting to wear my proper gear lately because it's hot but decided to atleast wear my jacket yesterday. It was only 30C odd but I nearly died of heatstroke. I can't imagine riding a pedalec with less than half the power!
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Kepler » Feb 05 2013 10:32pm

We 25kph is one hell of a dangerous speed you know. :lol:
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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by Hyena » Feb 05 2013 10:40pm

I know! I slipped on a bananna peel once and hit the ground travelling at 20km/hr. I can't imagine how sore I'd be if I was travelling an extra 5km/hr faster! :shock:


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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by full-throttle » Feb 06 2013 12:23am

Hmm.. my new carbon full face helmet just arrived. It's 37degC outside. Should wear it riding home tonight? :mrgreen:

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Re: Tested an e-motion Jumper today. Impressive

Post by full-throttle » Feb 06 2013 3:57am

I know this is off topic
Decided not to be a pussy and rode home wearing the new lid. It's actually very good, despite a hot evening my hair was dry. Even thought it's 956g (very light for a full face) still much heavier than my XC lid @ 195g, although it certainly didn't feel THAT much heavier.
The downside was that everyone was staring. So a real bad idea NOT to attract attention.
And here's the magnum look
ff.jpg
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