Brushless Geared hubmotors: BIG list & details

Miles

100 TW
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
11,031
Location
London UK
This first post is under construction as an index. Each motor will have a concise paragraph with common name, basic details, and links to threads with more detailed information for each. Discussion and suggestions may continue to be added to the end of the thread.

Unless otherwise stated, all listed geared hub motors below are brushless, have a disc brake flange on the left, they use an approximately 5:1 geared reduction, they have a threaded freewheel flange on the right, and the wires exit a hollow axle on the left.
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These top two have a 22mm wide stator (135mm diameter), and are widely regarded as the most powerful available.
MAC
BMC

The eZee and BPM have a 17mm wide stator (130mm diameter), and are popular as a mid-powered choice.
eZee
Bafang BPM2
Bafang BPM
Bafang CST

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I will try to organize the order of the motors below according to approximate size, the listed order may change over time as details are identified. The names below are generally from the smaller end of the physical size scale. Many parts of Europe and Asia have low power limits (250W is often cited) so, there is a lot of selection and innovation in this size class.


XOFO
Xiongda 2-speed
Q128H
ebikekit
Conhis
MXUS
Fusin
Bafang SWXH
Bafang SWXK
Cute Q100H
Outrider
Heinzmann
Tongxin
Ananda
MBG
Q85H
Bafang SWXU
Q75
Keyde
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SpokeLacing2.png
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MAC
spoke pitch circle diameter is 172mm.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=51310
The most often cited vendor is Paul @ http://em3ev.com/store/
laminations are 0.35mm thick (As of summer of 2014)
stator is 22mm thick, 135mm diameter
Magnets: 32
Poles: 36
Kv is available as 6T, 7T, 8T, 10T, 12T

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BMC
spoke pitch circle diameter is 172mm.
The most often cited vendor is Ilia @ http://www.ebikessf.com
laminations are 0.35mm thick
stator is 22mm thick, 135mm diameter
Magnets: 32
Poles: 36
Kv is available as 8T, 10T (called speed and torque)
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eZee
spoke pitch circle diameter is 172mm
The most often cited vendor is Justin @ http://www.ebikes.ca/
laminations are 0.35mm thick
stator is 17mm thick, 130mm diameter
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BPM2
The disc-brake-side spokes have a PCD of 171mm, and the sprocket side are 168mm
This unit has a sideplate that must be unscrewed for access to the internals, which requires a special tool.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62777
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Bafang BPM
spoke pitch circle diameter is 168mm
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=51237
laminations are 0.50mm thick
Stator is 17mm thick, 130mm diameter
magnets:16
poles: 18
Kv available in 9 versions, 8T to 16T
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Bafang CST
spoke pitch circle diameter 164mm
Reported to be identical to the BPM, but fitted with a cassette freehub
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4892&start=150#p810105
http://ecopedelec.com/pic/other/2012-07-06-01-18-336.jpg
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XOFO (cassette freehub)
spoke pitch circle diameter:______
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46608#p705884
This motor has an integrated torque-sensor inside the motor-shell.
Laminations are 0.50mm thick.
Stator is 20mm wide, and 104mm in diameter
magnets: 20
poles: 18
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Xiongda 2-speed
spoke pitch circle diameter: 121mm
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58490
This motor has two internal gear-sets, and by reversing the internal motor on the fly, the motor is provided with two gears that it uses to propel the wheel. Using 46V in a 26-inch tire provides 22-kph in low, and 36-kph in high gear (14-MPH and 22-MPH)
The stator width and diameter is 17mm X 96mm

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Q128H
spoke pitch circle diameter is 128mm
Available in two Kv's
No disc brake flange
http://www.bmsbattery.com/rear-driving/641-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html

Ykick has one at 16S voltage http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55477&start=50#p891603
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=74945&p=1131640#p1131567
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ebikekit
ES senior member dogman is a customer service rep for http://www.ebikekit.com/
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Conhis
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=439
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4892&start=150#p939995
cassette freehub
Stator diameter: 114mm
Stator width: 21mm
Lamination thickness: 0.50mm
magnets: 20
poles: 18
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MXUS
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
As of 2014, the new small MXUS geared hub has a cassette freehub, and the geared reduction uses helical gears (which should run very quietly)
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Fusin
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
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Bafang SWXH
spoke pitch circle diameter: 120mm
http://www.greenbikekit.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/128/image/256/
This unit has a sideplate that must be unscrewed to access the internals, which is difficult and requires a special tool.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47139&p=732717#p732717
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9969&start=25#p154389
The small hub from Ampedbikes appears to be identical to the SWXH
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62056&p=926839#p926939
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Bafang SWXK (SWXK5 is better for a disc brake)
spoke pitch circle diameter is 121mm
4.7-Kv (170-RPM @ 36V)
http://daniel.weck.free.fr/BromptonBafangTongxin/IMG_3818.jpg
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=55353
This 350W front-only hub locates its wire exit in the side plate on the right, as opposed to the common route through a hollow axle.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/diy-stage-1-received-bafang-tongxin-kits-photos.4682/
poles: 18

diassembly video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpBXKPdPAfY&list=UUk49CL_1nnuKdg86L5_-4Fg&index=32
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Cute Q100H
spoke pitch circle diameter: 108mm
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55477
sideplate unscrews
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50840
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13998
Pics comparing freewheel version with new 2015 cassette
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70369
Good pictures and information on the internals:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86991&p=1271611#p1271611
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Outrider
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
http://www.ebikes.ca/moutrider-fst.html
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Heinzmann
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4190
http://www.ebike.heinzmann.com/en/
brushed, no disc brake flange, two stages of geared reduction with the high-RPM half using helical gears. The two tiny wires exiting the motor are a temp sensor that trips at 145F / 63C, rare axial flux configuration.
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Tongxin
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
The Tongxin uses smooth rollers for the reduction instead of gears, which provides an unusually high amount of reduction. This means it runs very quietly, but it also means it cannot take many amps or it will start slipping.
http://static.electricbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/tenKits4.png
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25188
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymQyvh0L6iE
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Ananda
Identical to the Keyde/Tongxin
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MBG
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4892&start=125#p652141
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Cute Q85H
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14109&start=75#p361123
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Bafang SWXU
spoke pitch circle diameter: 108mm
The wires exit the sideplate instead of the axle.
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Q75
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
Stator width and diameter:_______
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Keyde
spoke pitch circle diameter:_______
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xelWE1FWa54
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Please PM corrections and additional details to spinningmagnets @ http://endless-sphere.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=5883

Here is a pic of a DIY tool for removing certain common types of sideplates, which screw onto the center section:

file.php
 
I'm hoping what's in the title is what we can create here. I'll get the ball rolling and hopefully member input can create good concise information. I plan to keep these top posts updated as info from member posts below comes in

Brushless Geared Hub Motors

As the name implies, brushless geared hubmotors utilise a brushless motor connected to a set of planetary gears which then drive the wheel.

These hubmotors have several advantages and disadvantages:

+ ~50% weight reduction compared with direct drive hubmotors
+ greater torque compared to direct drive hubmotors (translates into great hill climbing abilities)
+ freewheel for reduced rolling resistance (some may not have a freewheel, making regen possible, see the P2b below)
- cost/complexity
- moving/wearing parts (the gears, especially nylon ones)
- noise
- no regen possible on models with freewheel
credit:http://ebike.ca/hubmotors.shtml An excellent intro the these motors (under the geared hub motor heading).

(further write-up coming)
 
eZee
geared2.jpg


Weight: 3.8 kg
Gear Reduction: 5:1
Gears: Sun and ring gears are steel. The planets gears are Nylon and replaceable.
Freewheel: Yes
Position Front hub only
Disc Brake Yes, 6" included
Controller Compatibility eZee 20A, Crystalyte (w/ rewiring), (unknown: ecrazyman, Kelly BLDC?)
Rated Power At least 740W (standard kit comes with 37v battery, 20a controller).
User Power What's your experience guys? 1kW capable, 1MW? :wink:

Available: http://ebikes.ca/store/
Cost: Bare unlaced hubmotor cost unknown. Full Kit (w/out battery or charger) CDN$750

(more to come...)
 
BMC
PICT0052.JPG


Weight: 5.44 kg
Gear Reduction: ?
Gears: ?
Freewheel: Yes
Position: rear, 135mm, w/ 7 speed freewheel
Disc Brake: Compatible, no rotor included
Controller Compatibility: ?
Rated Power: At least 900W (standard kit comes with 25a controller).
User Power: What's your experience guys? 1kW capable, 1MW? :wink:

Available: http://www.texaselectricbikes.com/catalog/brushless-geared-motor-p-163.html
Cost: Bare unlaced hubmotor cost unknown. Full Kit (w/out battery or charger) USD$699

(more to come...)
 
P2b from SolarBBQ, Australia

p2bdim2small.jpg
p2bdim3small.jpg

Weight: 4.4 kg
Gear Reduction: ~4:1
Gears: Sun and ring gears are steel. The planets gears are Nylon and replaceable.
Freewheel: No
Position: Front hub or rear with modification (see website)
Disc Brake: Unknown
Controller Compatibility: kit comes with 18A controller (others unknown)
Rated Input Power: At least 864W (at 48v, 18a).
User Power: What's your experience guys? 1kW capable, 1MW? :wink:
Peak Efficiency: 82% at ~540W input power

(more to come...)
 
Good timing of this post. I'm actually just starting to do some research on building an ebike and thinking of using a hub motor on it. Really looking for some input on the different types. Having it all in one thread would be helpful too, since we have so many different threads on this forum.
 
Solarbbq2003 has P2b which is brushless! The P2a is a great geared motor but has brushes. About 400 Aus $ delivered! Check the website for updates! Bretts a prince to deal with!
otherDoc
 
docnjoj said:
Solarbbq2003 has P2b which is brushless! The P2a is a great geared motor but has brushes. About 400 Aus $ delivered! Check the website for updates! Bretts a prince to deal with!
otherDoc

Thanks Docnjoj, I've added details of his motor above. Do you have one?
 
Jay64 said:
Really looking for some input on the different types. Having it all in one thread would be helpful too, since we have so many different threads on this forum.

No worries, hopefully this will allow people to differentiate the different geared brushless motors out there. They do have some additional mechanical complexity compared with straight brushless but increased torque and less weight as a benefit.
 
Miles said:
http://www.szbaf.com/en/home.asp
Yes. I like these motors. I ran the Bafang PMGR thru sand today.
Superior to a DD motor at low wheel rpm. Unstoppable torque at 72V and 20 amps.
The little PMGR motor does get warm (and I swear it sounds like a quite Dewalt power tool).
But the Grubee Direct Drive is faster max speed and accelerates much quicker than the Bafang PMGR.

Hey ... maybe use one of each!

Bafang PMGR: http://www.szbaf.com/en/product_detail.asp?ProductID=506
Weight: 3 kg
Gear Reduction: 4.3:1
Gears: Planetary
Freewheel: YES
Position: Front
Disc Brake: NO
Controller Compatibility: Old x-lyte analogue, crazyman 72V 30Amp with 20-mhz resonator mod
See ... http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4282&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=105
Rated Input Power: 250W @ 36V
User Power: 72V 30amps
Peak Efficiency: WTFK

Available: YES
Forum Contact: Knuckles
Additional Info: PMGR and DD are different motors than can do different things

Cost: I offer special deal ... $199 front Bafang PMGR laced into 26" wheel + $39 shipping

Wheel shown here ... http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4282&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=150#p72362bafang.jpg
 
Knuckles said:
Yes. I like these motors.
Awsome thanks for editing in the details!
Bafang PMGR (QSWXB)
Here's a picture for those interested:
file.php

(edit, will talk to Keywin, for China --> Oz direct, thanks for all your legwork knuckles!)
 
voicecoils said:
Don't suppose that $39 shipping is to Sydney? 8)
ha ha. Shipping from China to AU is actually the cheapest!
 
Doug at EV tech engineered and designed the geared hub motor over a period of many years. Too bad he didn't patent it, as now the manufacturers have sold his design to others who put their names on them. I have his hub on the rear of a bike and it is an 8 pound torque monster. One thing not mentioned much about these motors, is that they are very efficient. Quite a bit more so the the Crystalite ones. I can go 35 miles on a 48 volt 15AH Lifepo4 at an average speed of 20 MPH on a 20 inch bike.

http://www.texaselectricbikes.com/catalog/brushless-geared-motor-p-163.html
 
andys said:
Doug at EV tech engineered and designed the geared hub motor over a period of many years.

Thanks for the history, AndyS. Was Doug actually the first to make them happen? I don't know how much good a patent would do in China. I've listed his motor towards the top of the thread.
 
voicecoils said:
docnjoj said:
Solarbbq2003 has P2b which is brushless! The P2a is a great geared motor but has brushes. About 400 Aus $ delivered! Check the website for updates! Bretts a prince to deal with!
otherDoc

Thanks Docnjoj, I've added details of his motor above. Do you have one?
Yeah! I ran it into the ground over about 1800 miles on my big trike! Great little motor, but brushed! I only do old tech!
otherDoc
 
docnjoj said:
Yeah! I ran it into the ground over about 1800 miles on my big trike! Great little motor, but brushed! I only do old tech!
otherDoc
How often do you need to renew the brushes?
 
docnjoj said:
voicecoils said:
docnjoj said:
Solarbbq2003 has P2b which is brushless! The P2a is a great geared motor but has brushes. About 400 Aus $ delivered! Check the website for updates! Bretts a prince to deal with!
otherDoc
Thanks Docnjoj, I've added details of his motor above. Do you have one?
Yeah! I ran it into the ground over about 1800 miles on my big trike! Great little motor, but brushed! I only do old tech!
otherDoc

Just to clarify, you "ran it into the ground", so you've killed it? This is the P2a (brushed and geared) your talking about, yeah?
 
Doug told me not only did he come up with the geared hub design, but he has upgraded it several times. the last changes he made was to have them built to take a standard mountain bike disc rotor as direct bolt on, and a larger diameter axle for more strength and to allow for bigger gauge wires. The ones he is selling are also built with US made bearings, and not the Chinese ones. He is supplying a CNC machined torque arm with each motor now as well.

I just ordered another one.
 
Is the axle of the Bafang motor hollow? What's the weight limit for the rear can it carry?
 
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