Brushless Geared hubmotors: BIG list & details

[voicecoils]

There is a new gear motor on ebay now, listed as a 1200 watt motor. Made by AOTEMA , same manufacturer as the WE motors. No idea who the vendor is, but this motor does not show on the WE site I looked at, so I assume no customer service from WE.

Link? I couldn't find it...

Cheers!

EDIT http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320309855183

[pithy]

It says that it's internally geared and that it can do regen. Aren't geared motors incapable of doing regen?

[voicecoils]

It says that it's internally geared and that it can do regen. Aren't geared motors incapable of doing regen?

If they freewheel = no regen
If they don't freewheel = regen possible

Both types exist.

[pithy]

i thought that all geared motors would freewheel, but i've never looked into that before. what other geared motors don't freewheel? (just curious)

[voicecoils]

i thought that all geared motors would freewheel, but i've never looked into that before. what other geared motors don't freewheel? (just curious)

P2b, from this thread for example: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4892#p72613

Think about it. Why would a geared motor NEED to freewheel?

Brushless geared motors are just that. Brushless motors which spin faster then the hub does. They're geared with mechanical reduction, mostly between 4:1 and 10:1.

Using a freewheel mechanism lets the hub spin freely without spinning the motor. Doing so makes regen and riding backwards impossible. If you don't have a freewheel, the motor will always be turning if the bike is moving whether forward or backwards and whether or not the motor is being powered.

Cheers.

[John in CR]

I'd make sure they use the wording "planetary gears". I've already run into a few instances of those in the orient saying gears when they're talking about the freewheel sprocket. To them a non-geared motor would be those that can't accommodate a chain for pedaling.

It would seem that a geared hub without freewheel would be difficult to pedal unpowered. I'll find out soon enough, because I have some kits for testing in route that include planetary geared hubs, regen, auto sensing LED lights, as well as the option while riding of variable pedal assist or immediate start. If it proves to be of good quality and is everything I'm told, then it should be an economical contender, but that remains to be seen.

John

[cycle9]

Great thread. I thought I'd update this in relation to the BMC motors (we are a relatively new dealer of those, but have contributed ideas to BMC for a new high-torque version for the cargo/sports utility bike market that is coming soon).

I'm going to write this up and make it into a table on our website, since it is confusing due to all the different names people use, and the new versions coming available.

Right now, there are 4 BMC bike motors available and/or soon-to-be (these are the 4 that BMC has made us aware of, I cannot guarantee that there aren't other versions around, but I suspect I would have heard about them if there were).

1. The original. Labeled "250W" on the sticker, official BMC part number 14110-1. Despite the label, BMC claims this is their "400 watt" motor. We call it the V1 (version 1). 5:1 gear drive. At 36V, this one will top out unloaded at 25mph, but with a rider, more like 22-23 mph while pedaling (using the BMC "25A" controller). Max power it can safely accept is around 48V/20A. It is very similar to the eZee motor. It uses the nylon gears. Despite some bad rap for these controllers, we've so far had good experience with them, having put two through fairly extensive use and abuse. BMC claims they upgraded the FET's a while back. They are very waterproof (everything is potted). Their main problem is that they can only do 36V at 22A (despite the 25A label, I have never seen above 22A). I will soon test one with 48V, but I hear rumors that it will fry them.

2. The new "600W". The latest, which has just appeared in the past few weeks, is their higher-speed geared motor. Official part number 14110-2. We call it the V2-S (version 2 speed). The windings are heavier and can accept substantially more power than V1. Spoke holes are bigger, to readily accept 12 or 13 gauge spokes. In our experience, this produces less torque than the V1 at identical power levels. That observation was confirmed by BMC, since they have wound this for speed over torque. But, since it can be used at higher amps and/or volts, then if paired with the appropriate battery and controller, it will still produce plenty of torque, more than V1, when run at higher power. Top unloaded speed at 36V is around 30 mph. At 48V this will be more like 40mph. Practical speed with rider at 36V (and > 30A controller) is upper 20's. The very first batch of these we got had weak clutches, but a batch is on their way with stronger clutches. The motor still uses nylon gears, for noise reasons. BMC apparently tried metal gears and it was too noisy. We are building them up in Sun Rhyno lite wheels in a 1X pattern with a spoke twist at the cross, for strength. I am using one on my Yuba Mundo, and have carried up to about 150 lbs of cargo in addition to my 200 lb rider weight. So far, the wheel hasn't budged.

3. The newer high-torque "600W". Not available yet, but very soon (possibly by early December, if all goes well). We requested this from BMC for our customers who have heavy bikes or big hills to climb. It uses the same internals as the V2-S, but is wound for a bit more torque - 35% according to BMC. The official BMC part number is the 14110-2T. We call it V2-T for short. It will be a bit slower than the V2-S, probably much more like the V1 speed-wise. But with the bigger, beefier windings, it will be able to accept a lot more power for climbing than the V1. I can post more about them as soon as we have them in hand. The first limited batch is already spoken for between ourselves and another dealer. We will be building these up in very heavy duty wheels for the sports-utility bike crowd, using butted Wheelsmith spokes designed for Downhill mountain bikes, and Sun Mammoth rims, also designed for downhillers.

4. The fabled "1000W". I do not have one of these - supposedly a few are now in testing. This will be an ultra high speed motor, non-geared. Rumors from BMC of it being around 40 mph at 36V, unloaded. That would make it very similar to the Forsen (high speed, low torque, but the BMC will be lighter weight). I do not have the part number, but could guess it is something like 14110-3... We'll refer to these as V3 motors.

All of the above use the same, relatively compact BMC outer case that can fit a 7 speed freewheel and 6-bolt disc brake. The V2 series are just a tad heavier, due to the extra copper. Nylon gears are a potential wear item, but are replaceable.

I hope that helps clear up some of the confusion about the various BMC motors floating around. There are a lot of different names for these from different vendors, which does not help. BMC themselves only use the model numbers, which are a bit too obtuse for most of us to remember.. (at least people of advanced age like myself). At the risk of just introducing more confusion, we are trying to keep it simple with the V1, V2, V3 numbering scheme.

Morgan
Cycle9.com

[marks]

Does anyone know which make this one is?
http://www.electricbikes.co.nz/content/view/22/65/

I'm in Aus, and I suppose I could order it from NZ, but as I can't seem to pick which brand/make it is, I am struggling to find it. I know it's 285w instead of 200w!

[gedemeisterdk]

“Does anyone know which make this one is?
http://www.electricbikes.co.nz/content/view/22/65/

I'm in Aus, and I suppose I could order it from NZ, but as I can't seem to pick which brand/make it is, I am struggling to find it. I know it's 285w instead of 200w! “

at 24 volt i don´t see any real legal problem...

the same kit is sold here in the EU, rated at "250" watt:

http://www.alienbikes.co.uk/index.htm

[marks]

I'd love that little one in a rear hub hence my question of does anyone know the brand/wholesaler?

[docnjoj]

Those motors above look like Bafangs. They have the same voltage designations.
otherDoc

[nutsandvolts]

.

[docnjoj]

Check with solarbbq. He has a wide variety of geared motors! Best one I ever had was a P2A brushed (no longer availible) Bafang is good value for the money but we gotta solve the gear problem!

[Ben]

Oh yeah, just so you know:

http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?products_id=776&osCsid=4741caf21acfa1b78e1ea62b107cf94c

It certainly looks like a Bafang, but the specs don't seem to match up with any motor on their website.

[jmygann]

need advise on replacing my brushed 20" hub motor with a brushless with cassette and keep my 35 amp controller ?? currently runing 48 v 12 ah SLA

48 v 20 ah Lifepo4 ordered and on the way


http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/p ... =1&m=f&o=0

http://tech.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/p ... =4&m=f&o=0

[voicecoils]

Oh yeah, just so you know:

http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?products_id=776&osCsid=4741caf21acfa1b78e1ea62b107cf94c

It certainly looks like a Bafang, but the specs don't seem to match up with any motor on their website.

Cool. Does look like it that's for sure. However, who knows how many may use the same case? The price seems fair too, though that controller probably is just 200w, it looks piss weak!

[docnjoj]

If it is Bafang, U dont want to put too much more volts/amps into it until the gear situation is resolved!
otherDoc

[marks]

Oh yeah, just so you know:

http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?products_id=776&osCsid=4741caf21acfa1b78e1ea62b107cf94c

It certainly looks like a Bafang, but the specs don't seem to match up with any motor on their website.

I've checked with them and they say it's not geared internally, I don't know about the brand (it didn't have one).

Where can I get a bafang in Australia?

[voicecoils]

Oh yeah, just so you know:

http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?products_id=776&osCsid=4741caf21acfa1b78e1ea62b107cf94c

It certainly looks like a Bafang, but the specs don't seem to match up with any motor on their website.

I've checked with them and they say it's not geared internally, I don't know about the brand (it didn't have one).

Where can I get a bafang in Australia?

weird. i don't know if i believe them. can they send a photo of the internals?

[marks]

I'll ask

[spike]

Oh yeah, just so you know:

http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?products_id=776&osCsid=4741caf21acfa1b78e1ea62b107cf94c

It certainly looks like a Bafang, but the specs don't seem to match up with any motor on their website.

I've checked with them and they say it's not geared internally, I don't know about the brand (it didn't have one).

Where can I get a bafang in Australia?

Contact Keywin Ge at ecrazyman@gmail.com. He'll sell you the full kit but you will need to spoke it into a wheel yourself.

[TPA]

Anyone know about the P3 that solarbbq has now?

[Microbatman]

4. The fabled "1000W". I do not have one of these - supposedly a few are now in testing. This will be an ultra high speed motor, non-geared. Rumors from BMC of it being around 40 mph at 36V, unloaded. That would make it very similar to the Forsen (high speed, low torque, but the BMC will be lighter weight). I do not have the part number, but could guess it is something like 14110-3... We'll refer to these as V3 motors.

Morgan
Cycle9.com

Any update on the Direct Drive 1000W motor. I think that the market is hungary for an X5 alternative with less weight.

[voicecoils]

Any update on the Direct Drive 1000W motor. I think that the market is hungary for an X5 alternative with less weight.

The market (at least ebike enthusiasts) certainly is eager, I'd like to see a X5 power level hub motor with:
*quality casing & axles - enabling a weight reduction and increase in strength at the same time. Hollow Ti axle anyone?
*lots of copper, wound with high density.
*proper disc mounts and spacing
*proper freehub body to accept Shimano or SRAM modern splined cassettes.
*proper sealing
*oversized wiring
*passive cooling mechanism in the design.

But, this thread is about brushless geared hubmotors. The 1000W direct drive BMC is another matter (one I'll be looking for in other threads!)

[docnjoj]

Any update on the Direct Drive 1000W motor. I think that the market is hungary for an X5 alternative with less weight.

The market (at least ebike enthusiasts) certainly is eager, I'd like to see a X5 power level hub motor with:
*quality casing & axles - enabling a weight reduction and increase in strength at the same time. Hollow Ti axle anyone?
*lots of copper, wound with high density.
*proper disc mounts and spacing
*proper freehub body to accept Shimano or SRAM modern splined cassettes.
*proper sealing
*oversized wiring
*passive cooling mechanism in the design.

But, this thread is about brushless geared hubmotors. The 1000W direct drive BMC is another matter (one I'll be looking for in other threads!)

I think that titanium axle would cost more than the rest of the motor!
otherDoc