First eBike

RA

1 mW
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
13
I've been reading about the vaious approaches to converting my bike. The "great debate" was entertaining :) I have a ten mile round-trip to the beach, small hills. I'd also like to take it to the mountains and ride up steep hills, 'till the battery pack is exhausted.

Here's what I have planned. I'd like to hear your opinons.

Super BMC 750w motor,
LashOut 19 Tooth Freewheeling Planetary Speed Reducer,
Stoker crank with freewheel,
40A(36V-72V) X-5 Motor Controller

I don't know how I will mount the motor yet.
Will I be able to attach a scooter sprocket to the crank?

I also need a second bike so that my wife can ride with me. I think I'm going to take the simple hub motor installation approach for her.

Does anyone have any experience with the kit from goldenmotor.com?
It's about 70% efficient at 36v 20amps, 216 rpm and 22.5 Nm torque.

Thanks,

Ron
 
RA, I have a front hub motor and actually now kind of wish I had gotten it for the rear wheel. I do though like the weight balance of having the front motor and batteries on the back though. It only gets a little weird when you try to take a corner at full speed as the bike wants to keep going straight from all the weight. (I'm using sla's). Other then that its very nimble at turns and you don't really know its got the weight on it. Anyhow, I don't know much about gearing or the BMC motor so I'll let someone else answer that. By the way, the new Elec Trec has a high torque motor already and everything ready to go if you want to drop about $1000 bucks.
 
I'm not sure you can mate a planetary gear reducer to a BMC 750w.
It would make a nice motor though, if you could figure out a way to gear it.

The BMC Puma hubmotor looks promising too. It should be nearly the same power. Much easier to hook up, but fixed gearing for the motor.

A scooter sprocket should be adaptable, but I don't think you'd get enough reduction in a single set of sprockets. It might need double reduction.
 
fechter said:
I'm not sure you can mate a planetary gear reducer to a BMC 750w.
It would make a nice motor though, if you could figure out a way to gear it.

The BMC Puma hubmotor looks promising too. It should be nearly the same power. Much easier to hook up, but fixed gearing for the motor.

A scooter sprocket should be adaptable, but I don't think you'd get enough reduction in a single set of sprockets. It might need double reduction.

There's a scooter version and one for a bike with D shaft that the LashOut planetary gear fits.

hmmm... I see what you mean about gear reduction with a single sprocket. I found the planetary gear reduction is only 4.8. It seems I should reduce motor rpm by 30 so that at 2700 rpm, the crank rpm will be 90. Since the planetary sprocket is 19, I'd need a 120 tooth sprocket.

This is going to take more planning. The simplicity of a hub motor is becoming very appealing.
 

Hi RA:

What voltage are you planning? If you're planning on using 48v with the 750w BMC, you should plan on getting a lot more than 2700 rpm. Fetcher's scooter goes up to 6000 rpm. I shyed away from that motor because I didn't want to deal with so much gear reduction either. However, fetcher's scooter is super-cool. You should check out his video in the video section.

I understand that you're using 60 emoli cells. What configuration? 5p12s?

I'm using those cells too. I'll be posting my results.

Many people say that you may not need a BMS with these cells. Thay are supposed to stay balanced pretty well. I'm not going to use any BMS. And I'm going to charge each 4.2v sub-pack independently so they'll alwaays be balanced. I would reccomend thinking about charging plans before building your packs. I will be posting detailed pics of how I'm charging my bike in the next two weeks.
 
:arrow: The easy way to go with gears is to use the Cyclone.

http://www.cyclone-usa.com/store.php?crn=200

I can guarantee that dealing with gear reduction is not an easy thing. My transaxle took six versions before it finally worked reliably. If you are not mechanically inclined (and have the necessary tools) then I'd go for the hub motors. If you can invent parts to bring everything together and make it work then go ahead and take a crack at it.
 
Actually, just this week I decided to stay with the simplicity of a hub motor and ordered a front wheel 408 36v/20amp kit for my first bike. Next, I'd like a geared rear wheel kit.

Yes, I have 60 emoli cells. I'm undecided about the configuration and approach. I may just use single chargers for this pack at 12s5p.

Too many choices... two sub-packs with the BatterySpace 7s boards or one of the the 10s. ebikes.ca has a BMS for 13s.

I'm moving pretty slowly, but will post results eventually :)
 
Here's answers to my questions froma ways back..

xyster said:
Does anybody know of a list of miscellaneous parts I might need such as fuses, shrink tube, etc to put everything together?

This is off the top of my head -- hopefully others will fill-in stuff I miss.

- A fuse that's rated 5 amps higher than the controller plus a fuse holder. I use a 40 amp automotive fuse from Radioshack.com plus one of their enclosed fuse holders.

- A hall-effect throttle if you didn't order it with your controller

- A spoke wrench for tightening and building/truing the wheel once you get it (and a double-wall, flat-on-bottom wheel if you didn't order it with the motor). Might pick up an extra set of spokes while you're at it. If you ride on a loose spoke, it will break pretty quick.

- electrical tape and/or shrink. Especially good for enclosing the ends of wires that are inside an exterior layer of protective cable. If left open, water likes to travel down through the insides of the thick cables and into the motor and controller. A squirt of silicon glue is good there too.

- something to secure the controller to the frame unless you plan to put it in a bag (which isn't great because of cooling problems in a bag). I use two ~4" hose clamps.

- silicon glue for sealing the inlet on the motor where the wiring enters, the ends of the anderson connectors where the wire enters, the seams of the controller, the wiring outlets of the controller, around the on/off switch of the controller (especially if you're planning to ride in the rain), and the seams on the throttle if you plan to ride in the rain (water in the throttle is a major cause of throttle shorts, especially with the LED-meter type throttles, causing a dangerous wide-open-throttle situation).

- Even in the 'off' position the controller will suck some power. So consider disconnecting the Andersons when the bike is not in use for a bit, or wire a switch rated for at least 20 amps inline with a main battery power wire.

- Epoxy for securing accessories such as wobbly mirrors.

- Mirrors

- Lights front and rear for safety and nighttime riding.

- A bag or a box to stick the batteries in. Something to secure the bag or box to the frame, or the back rack.

- A back rack for carrying stuff. Maybe a front basket too. If the bike has rear suspension, then a rack that attaches only to the seatpost, else a stronger rack that also attaches to the rear triangle near the motor axle.

- A metal grinder or metal grinder attachment for a drill if you need to grind the axle a little in order for the axle to fit in the dropouts. Many axles are about 1mm wider on their flat sides than the dropouts. If the instructions say to grind the dropouts to make it fit, disregard those instructions and grind the axle instead -- weakening the dropouts in any way is very bad.

- A big wrench for tightening the bolts on the axle. Might need spacers of some sort (washers or ground-down nuts perhaps) to keep the axle snug and clamped on both sides of each of the two dropouts.

- chain lubricant

- plastic zip ties to secure the wires to the frame.

- tools to remove, cut, and reposition the handle bar grip for throttle installation. There's a tiny hex bolt on the crystalyte throttles that secures the throttle to the handlebars. The allen wrench didn't come with any of my kit items, which I also bought separately.

- wire cutters, strippers, and crimpers. The Andersons can be crimped with standard crimpers just fine. With standard crimpers, crimp multiple times at 90-degree angles until the wire-securing part of the contact is tight around the wire and squared-off (else the contact won't fit in the housing). With thin, limp wires, a small screwdriver, allen wrench or something like that can be used to push the contact into the housing.

- Depending on where you bought your motor and controller, the connectors for the five hall-effect wires going from the controller and to the motor may not match. In such case, replace the connectors with five sets of Andersons, or some other kind of connector. The tiny wires may be a little tricky to deal with. Strip a few inches and fold the wire over on itself multiple times before clamping the anderson contact on it. Or also use a short length of some other wire for fattening-up the tiny hall-effect wires.

- A freewheel for the motor that's not too wide. A 5304 without disk brakes fits in the width of a standard 135mm mountain bike dropout just right with a three-speed freewheel. A five speed freewheel will require a fair bit of wheel dishing that may be better done by a bike shop. More than five speeds should be avoided for this reason. Even a three speed still needs about an inch of dish in order to be centered in the rear triangle. Ypedal says the dish is not absolutely necessary. So blame him if you don't dish the wheel and something goes wrong because of it. :)


Got this growing fear I'll wait 4-6 weeks for the big stuff and then can't put it together for some 5 cent part I can't find here in Kimchi land. :roll:

:lol: Yah, with all the different bikes out there, the process can be more involved than the instructions suggest. Fortunately, there's all kinds of ways to make it work with common parts. So it's important to approach problems with the proper attitude :) :
macgyver-multitool.jpg


Lastly the dumb question: :oops: Suppose I get this thing running at 35 mph and decide to help with peddling. If I'm in the wrong bike gear will it tear my feet off? :lol: Or some other nasty event?

The only dumb questions are the ones you know the answers to already -- the "duh!" questions :) The freewheel prevents the pedals from spinning when you aren't pedaling, so your feet won't get ripped off. You probably won't be able to pedal-assist at speeds above 25mph without a special crankset gear or gear cluster. Depending on the freewheel you choose compared to the one on the bike now, however fast can you ride downhill and still pedal-with-effect is how fast you can pedal-assist the motor. You can always act like you're pedaling in order not to draw unwanted attention and make people think you're the bionic man going uphill. :)
 
One of my kits is a golden motor. I think it performs very well. I find it a bit more torqy than my 406 but not quite as fast. I think it is a good value for the price. You will have to chuck the rim it comes with because its not very good.


http://www.goldenmotor.com/SMF/
 
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