IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT! NEWLY DEVELOPED BMC MOTORS!!!

[pwbset]

My bike web page.

Yup... that's the Jerome I remember. You're going to fit in perfectly here and your analytical mind is going to be very welcome I promise! I fully expect 1,000+ posts before the year is out!

[hi-powercycles]

Hi Jerome,
Yes, it freewheels just like the geared motors. If there is any resistance, I definately cannot discern a difference.

Update on the 1000W motor. I have tested it with an early version of the 35A BMC controller, it seems as if we are not getting enough juice (amps) from the controller. I topped out so far at 33 MPH on 51.2V Lifepo4. From what I know about the dyno information, there is a LOT left in the motor. Above 20 MPH it is dead quiet, and you literally cannot hear any noise. Will re-test tomorrow with a new controller and with a crystalyte 40A controller next week. Don't be so quick to shoot down the idea of a 10 lb 1000W motor. It was made specifically to target the crystalyte 5 series...

[Microbatman]

Looking for some specs on this direct drive BMC motor.

10lbs is that correct?


What is the width of the BMC stator?

The reason for asking is that an X53_ _ is a 53mm width stator.
The 400 series has a 40mm stator.

That's where they got their names from.

[snowranger]

Anyone know if the new composite gears will work with the original 400w BMC and is anyone out there stocking them?

[Will]

Yes, and for that matter, any specs on the 400cc BMC that may by now, have a proven track record? A 10.3lb/33mph motor is a desirable weight/performance improvement over C409 14lbs, C408/6 15lbs, C5300's too heavy to discuss. So, how do they climb; torque of 400, 600, & 1000: How quiet is each motor: can I run one at 75% speed and increase battery efficiency(can't with C-408/C-25amp controller); 36V & 48+V? There's plenty of info to consider purchasing C-lytes, 5300's included, and though BMC sounds good, I need info for one to be my next E-bike motor. Send some data, or better yet motors, to Jerome and let him record the graphs/Excel sheets for us

[hi-powercycles]

Hi Will,
The 600W thunderbolt is definately the motor of choice right now! It weighs only 8.9 lbs! On our 55.5v lipo system and clyte 40A controller, top speed is 36+ MPH (GPS). It is much faster than the 400w motor, and in my opinion is the better hill climber as well especially when coupled with a clyte 40A controller. I am very impressed with the capabilities of the 600w geared motor. I have even sold kits to local bike store owners of all people! Today, I brought our dual suspension bike with the 600W motor to the local bike shop to let one of the guys try it... He literally ran inside the bike shop with a huge grin and yelled to the manager "Hey man, you gotta try this!" The manager replied "I don't know if I want to! You have me nervous with that silly grin on your face!" Anyways, after every single staff member of the bike shop tried it, they all had the same reaction: A huge smile, followed by "Wow! I can't believe how fast it is!" They were all dumbfounded. They were used to selling Bionx kits, so they had no idea what was in store for them when they tried a a motor like this!

I want to mention that I do have a Crystalyte 5304 to test...I am just waiting on the rim to lace it in. I will be doing a comparison video between the C-lyte 5304 and the 600W thunderbolt for anyone interested in seeing how a 25 lb behemoth stacks up against an 8.9lb welterweight champ. When both motors laced into rims hit the scales at the shop, the BMC came in under 11 lbs, while the C-lyte was 27 lbs! Wow.

For comparison sake, the 600W motor at near full speed on the flats will draw about 28-29 amps. The 400w motor will draw about 22 amps. When I tested the 600w motor up a mile long 8-10% grade (no pedaling) I saw about 33-34 Amps maximum. I was drawing a continuous 1500W climbing the grade. No heat, no cutoff, nothing, just pure smiles as I coasted to the top. The 600W Thunderbolt is a VERY impressive motor.

Regarding noise... If anyone is familiar with the older style Currie US Pro Drive systems, the 400 and 600w motors are about twice as quiet. The 1000W motor is downright silent once it gets to speed, No other biker could ever suspect you had an electric motor if he judged by sound. I will speak more about the 1000w motor when we finalize the design and meet the criteria promised earlier: 40 MPH at 48V. Keep in mind, we offer cycle analysts on all of our motors to limit the speed to whatever speed you find acceptable.

P.S. This motor and our extremely light weight batteries make it possible to offer a 35 MPH, high torque, 5" travel dual suspension (120mm travel front forks) Mountain bike that weighs in at UNDER 40 lbs ready to ride! If there is interest in something like this, we will definitely offer it in the near future! Have a great day everyone.

[voicecoils]

I want to mention that I do have a Crystalyte 5304 to test...I am just waiting on the rim to lace it in. I will be doing a comparison video between the C-lyte 5304 and the 600W thunderbolt for anyone interested in seeing how a 25 lb behemoth stacks up against an 8.9lb welterweight champ. When both motors laced into rims hit the scales at the shop, the BMC came in under 11 lbs, while the C-lyte was 27 lbs! Wow.

The 5304 vs BMC offerings sounds like a great show. Can't wait for the video

P.S. This motor and our extremely light weight batteries make it possible to offer a 35 MPH, high torque, 5" travel dual suspension (120mm travel front forks) Mountain bike that weighs in at UNDER 40 lbs ready to ride! If there is interest in something like this, we will definitely offer it in the near future! Have a great day everyone.

That's a great goal weight. Are you considering a cro-mo frame? A number of manufactures are making great cromo frames again like Kona and smaller boutique bike builders as well. The strength/weight ratio and compliant ride are good characteristics to match with ebikes which do carry a bit of extra weight. For a MTB (say in the XC genre) a 20 kg ebike would need to offer significant advantage over a 10-12kg non-electric bike in order to convince hard core bikers.

[Microbatman]

I want to mention that I do have a Crystalyte 5304 to test...I am just waiting on the rim to lace it in. I will be doing a comparison video between the C-lyte 5304 and the 600W thunderbolt for anyone interested in seeing how a 25 lb behemoth stacks up against an 8.9lb welterweight champ. When both motors laced into rims hit the scales at the shop, the BMC came in under 11 lbs, while the C-lyte was 27 lbs! Wow.

Sounds great. Can't wait to see it.
Please use same battery and same controller specs.
Valid testing only changes one variable at a time.

[Joshua Goldberg]

Just discovered this BMC thread and it has been interesting reading every message from the start. Nice to see Brett White posting---Hi Brett.

As for the 1,000W BMC being gearless but having xtreme torque, all it means is larger magnets and thicker copper wire are being used.

I have been used a BMC Front hub motor for about 5 months so far. Got them to play with with, sold 2 with a 20A X 48V for $600.00 and the 3rd one has remained unsold. Using a Crystalyte 20A X 48V controller in a 26" wheel I had a cruise speed of 26 mph and my weight is similiar to that of a small motorcycle (time to diet). It accelerates from a standing start nicely. It is drilled for a disc rotor but I cannot find one to fit & BMC didn't supply one. It is a quiet motor and you don't get the usual whine like you get on a Heinzmann or Tarn. My BMC is supposed to be 540W (18 gauge wire) and Mark Higgon of TeamHybrid was to have his BMC in 13 Gauge (no idea if that came about but it would make the BMC a tree climber at 13 Gauge).

One mention earlier about using a Pedal First Controller from ebikes.ca. It won't work on a geared hub motor. You need to use a Controller with hall effect sensors.

Like Brett White I believe that Brushless/Geared hub motors are the future and Gearless Hub Motors will go the way of the Dinosaur---for lower speed applications, at least for (under 25 mph). Crystalyte hub motors will still have a place for speed demons who like to over-volt.

Anyway Good Thread so far and Congrats to Hi-Powercycles for moving on the BMC

[Will]

Hi-PowerCycles; Bring us the future I'll be watching the video and for several other e-bike pioneers to verify performance/reliability. It looks though I'll need to commute 10 hilly miles to college next fall (moving to AL). Right now I can't outrun the country dogs and wind up pepper spraying a few; wouldn't mind sneaking up the road on 'em on a silent e-bike, then out pacing 'em thru the countryside

[solarbbq2003]

HI joshua
bmc china working on 1kw geared redesigning from scratch, with freewheel to suit higher power

[Jerome Daoust]

I have a setup (Cadillac AM2.4 + new BMC 600 W + 20 Ah 51.2 V LiFePo4) on order and will write a review with my experience when I get it and start putting miles on the bike.

[nicobie]

Looks like U pulled the trigger....

Can't wait to read your reviews.

Nick

[biohazardman]

Will they be better quality than this?

[recumbent]

In all fairness about the quality control of the BMC motor, it looks like the crimped wire was brazed at the end, making the connection near perfect, the magnet misalignment could very well be the beginning, & end, of the glueing-up process where they won't ever align perfectly.
However, the spindle being less than half a mm smaller than 10mm might look bad on a vernier caliper scale, does not amount to much compared to a stamped-out rear drop-out on a bike.
It's easily avoidable in the milling process however, and is the most telling of the poor QC than all the rest.

[voicecoils]

In all fairness about the quality control of the BMC motor, it looks like the crimped wire was brazed at the end, making the connection near perfect, the magnet misalignment could very well be the beginning, & end, of the glueing-up process where they won't ever align perfectly.
However, the spindle being less than half a mm smaller than 10mm might look bad on a vernier caliper scale, does not amount to much compared to a stamped-out rear drop-out on a bike.
It's easily avoidable in the milling process however, and is the most telling of the poor QC than all the rest.

I agree, those QC issues in total don't amount to much. My Bafang and X5 motor both do not have perfect axle flats along the length. ebike.ca says the Crystalyte axles are lathe turned.

From an electromagnetic point of view, I think the magnet alignment would have an unmeasurable affect in road riding conditions.

The stator coils look much neater on the BMC then the Bafang to me.

Bigger issue IMHO is that hubmotors could be stronger, lighter, and more powerful with better materials, design, manufacturing capabilities, and tighter tolerance. This can be done in China IMO but a company would need to have strong control over everything like Apple does in its iPod & computer products. Price would then naturally reflect this.

[pwbset]

with better materials, design, manufacturing capabilities, and tighter tolerance. This can be done in China IMO but a company would need to have strong control over everything

The way the world is going this could be doable in US/Aus/CA/UK etc. pretty soon for competitive price.

[voicecoils]

with better materials, design, manufacturing capabilities, and tighter tolerance. This can be done in China IMO but a company would need to have strong control over everything

The way the world is going this could be doable in US/Aus/CA/UK etc. pretty soon for competitive price.

Bring it on!

The question is, how many people will be willing to pay the upfront ebike purchase cost to cut their weekly petrol expenses. Maybe people will start getting ebike loans, wait...lenders are nervous, just wack it on the credit card

Anyways, interesting times. I'm eager to see what what the new BMC's bring to the table.

[biohazardman]

In all fairness about the quality control of the BMC motor, it looks like the crimped wire was brazed at the end, making the connection near perfect, the magnet misalignment could very well be the beginning, & end, of the glueing-up process where they won't ever align perfectly.
However, the spindle being less than half a mm smaller than 10mm might look bad on a vernier caliper scale, does not amount to much compared to a stamped-out rear drop-out on a bike.
It's easily avoidable in the milling process however, and is the most telling of the poor QC than all the rest.

I agree, those QC issues in total don't amount to much. My Bafang and X5 motor both do not have perfect axle flats along the length. ebike.ca says the Crystalyte axles are lathe turned.

From an electromagnetic point of view, I think the magnet alignment would have an unmeasurable affect in road riding conditions.

The stator coils look much neater on the BMC then the Bafang to me.

Bigger issue IMHO is that hubmotors could be stronger, lighter, and more powerful with better materials, design, manufacturing capabilities, and tighter tolerance. This can be done in China IMO but a company would need to have strong control over everything like Apple does in its iPod & computer products. Price would then naturally reflect this.

Looks can be deceiving there is no solder nor has the terminal been brazed. Although it is a connection doubt it would stay that way at rated power for long. Caliper readings might not seem like allot but when you put the axle in a dropout or 10mm torque bar it's far worse than one would imagine you really don't want to put it together that way. My C-lyte and GM are at 9.98 and 9.97mm and fit nice and tight in the dropouts. It's an expensive paperweight for now unless I decide to put forth the effort and purchase a steel framed bike and mod the dropout and a torque bar for the specific motor. Although it is not likely one of their best efforts it is my first BMC and compares not to my C-lyte or GM. Leaves a bad taste for the new stuff. Personally I think they should all be inspected inside and out before they are sold to the public. Nuff of a rant on this thing now time to put it aside. Somebody show me a nice new motor inside and out and tell me it is worthy to be had so I can be converted to the gear drive as I am not at the moment.

[voicecoils]

...It's an expensive paperweight for now unless I decide to put forth the effort and purchase a steel framed bike and mod the dropout and a torque bar for the specific motor. Although it is not likely one of their best efforts it is my first BMC and compares not to my C-lyte or GM. Leaves a bad taste for the new stuff. Personally I think they should all be inspected inside and out before they are sold to the public. Nuff of a rant on this thing now time to put it aside. Somebody show me a nice new motor inside and out and tell me it is worthy to be had so I can be converted to the gear drive as I am not at the moment.

Have you run the motor? I'd try to make the small mods you see necessary to increase it's reliability and then give it a go. Make a monster torque arm to satisfy those concerns.

What would you have been willing to pay for a quality motor? 10x the cost of yours?

I don't disagree with you that a quality motor should be out there, but I think you do get what you pay for. I don't know what you paid for yours but I suspect there was at least 10x mark up before it got to your door. If it was $500, then the first wholesaler bulk buyer or whoever got the motors straight from the factory probably paid $50, maybe way less. Then the middle man along the way took their cut. What kind of quality in manufacturing and materials can be had for $50 bucks?

[recumbent]

Looks can be deceiving there is no solder nor has the terminal been brazed. Somebody show me a nice new motor inside and out and tell me it is worthy to be had so I can be converted to the gear drive as I am not at the moment.

Oops, sorry man, i didn't know it was that bad. I thought maybe you could wrap some shim-stock around the axle and it would tighten the joint to an interference fit if you wanted. Just choose the correct thickness of shim stock.

You purchased this motor second hand, maybe there was a history behind this motor, like rejected stock or something.

Hope things work better than they look.

[biohazardman]

Looks can be deceiving there is no solder nor has the terminal been brazed. Somebody show me a nice new motor inside and out and tell me it is worthy to be had so I can be converted to the gear drive as I am not at the moment.

Oops, sorry man, i didn't know it was that bad. I thought maybe you could wrap some shim-stock around the axle and it would tighten the joint to an interference fit if you wanted. Just choose the correct thickness of shim stock.

You purchased this motor second hand, maybe there was a history behind this motor, like rejected stock or something.

Hope things work better than they look.

Yes second hand but brand new motor just the same as it was never installed and used. One just expects a little more for several hundred dollars. I can make it work but at an extra cost of hours and a different bike with a steel frame. Actually have been thinking the last couple of days, not an easy thing to do sometimes, my old 1970s Motobecane Super Mirage has just been hanging around as of late. It will get a tune up and some brand new tech. I can make some kind of washer to make it fit the dropouts and then modify one of my torque arms to fit the axle. It will take several extra hours to do the extra werq required though. Should be trendy in my part of the world as everyone is making fixies out of the old road bikes. Thanks for helping me finalize that decision. So now I am working on four e-bikes at the same time. Oops I thanked you for that?

[biohazardman]

...It's an expensive paperweight for now unless I decide to put forth the effort and purchase a steel framed bike and mod the dropout and a torque bar for the specific motor. Although it is not likely one of their best efforts it is my first BMC and compares not to my C-lyte or GM. Leaves a bad taste for the new stuff. Personally I think they should all be inspected inside and out before they are sold to the public. Nuff of a rant on this thing now time to put it aside. Somebody show me a nice new motor inside and out and tell me it is worthy to be had so I can be converted to the gear drive as I am not at the moment.

Have you run the motor? I'd try to make the small mods you see necessary to increase it's reliability and then give it a go. Make a monster torque arm to satisfy those concerns.

What would you have been willing to pay for a quality motor? 10x the cost of yours?

I don't disagree with you that a quality motor should be out there, but I think you do get what you pay for. I don't know what you paid for yours but I suspect there was at least 10x mark up before it got to your door. If it was $500, then the first wholesaler bulk buyer or whoever got the motors straight from the factory probably paid $50, maybe way less. Then the middle man along the way took their cut. What kind of quality in manufacturing and materials can be had for $50 bucks?

Just saw the post on the $53 motor if you buy 100 of them. They would need to be shipped but still looks like the mark up is substantial by someone. I am in the middle of the wiring upgrade, that's why I found all this stuff. Have and old 70s bike with a steel frame will cobble it together and expect it will werq OK if I do my part.

[vidwiz]

I have a setup (Cadillac AM2.4 + new BMC 600 W + 20 Ah 51.2 V LiFePo4) on order and will write a review with my experience when I get it and start putting miles on the bike.

Considering similar setup, will be very interested to hear your feedback, especially how well the rack manages that much battery weight and how the top heavyness feels offroad.

[Herrsprocket]

Hey Biohazardman,

Would you be interested in attending an e-assist symposium next month in Portland? The OHPV (Oregon Human Powered Vehicles) organization is putting on an "e-assist 101" for club members and others interested in this growing transportation culture. Just from reading your posts in this thread ( I have a very keen interest in and have been following the BMC posts, I'm looking into getting one), your familiarity with the various systems would be a great addition to our gathering. Even if you don't wish to bring some goodies, it would be cool to meet you and get some inside info on your experiences. It will be low key and have a social atmosphere, easy yakking. We are also the group that put on the ePower Challenge at PIR, an electric assist race category mixed in with our HPV racing and the electrathon group. Let me know if you are interested.

OK, I'm more than curious as to where you got this funky axled BMC. IF you don't want to spill on somebody here, perchance you could PM me, so that I can avoid the same source. Thanks.

Tom